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Do some Pokemon movies even need Ash?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by matt0044, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    This video got me to thinking about Pokemon 4ever started a sort of trend for Ash to feel incidental in a lot of the movies. Hell, while Max and May would get their own subplots in Jirachi: Wishmaker and Temple of the Sea respectively, it'd often feel like Ash should take a backseat to them but... he doesn't. While I loved M21 for not neglecting the wider cast, Ash felt like he was just some side character bumped up to secondary at best.

    In fact, I honestly feel like Pokemon movies would be more intriguing if they were to break away from Ash's journey and show another story in another part of his world. I mean, the core appeal of the movies is how they have to be self-contained so that parents can enjoy with their kids in addition to said kids not needing to watch a particular episode of the series in order to get what's going on. Leaving out Ash would alleviate these issues.
  2. AznKei

    AznKei Badass girls saving their boyfriends. XD

    Tbh, I'll be freaking out if Ash appears in the Detective Pikachu live action movie. He's probably going to say the same introduction from the anime like "Hi, I'm Ash from Pallet Town, and I want to become a Pokemon master!", and the fans are probably going to be mixed about the actor playing as him, and I already saw Smosh on YouTube playing as him in his Pokemon live action clips before.
  3. Redstar45


    But he won't play big role in the movie anyway so i won't be worried about it if i were you .
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  4. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    M20 and M21 are among the best movies to feature Ash in recent years. The key to success is knowing who Ash is, and how he can impact the story in a meaningful.

    M21 (Everyone's Story) in particular needed Ash to act as the foil to all the characters featured there. While he doesn't have a character arc of his own, he does leave an impact to the other characters, be it helping out Lisa catch an Eevee or befriending Margo and Zeraora. It's sort of like a kid-friendly version of Prince Ashitaka from Princess Mononoke. The main protagonist doesn't really change, but they bring change to the world they come across. Heck, if one thinks about it, it's pretty much Red from the main games.
  5. Kuzehiko

    Kuzehiko Well-Known Member

    Not all the movies should be Ash focused at this point. It's okay if he isn't the hero of the day in some movies as well but I personally think Ash should appear on all of them (animated movies only) as long as he is the MC of the anime.
  6. Redstar45


    You sir just win a award for saying that!!
    Nice ruby pic though.
  7. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Exactly. I mostly feel like the movies could've done what Pokemon Chronicles as well as the Mega Evolution Specials did and focus on different parts of the Pokemon World outside of Ash's journey. "The Legend of Thunder" felt like a step in the right direction.
  8. NanoMoltres

    NanoMoltres Pokemon Ranger Nano

    If the movie in question is set in the mainline anime universe then I feel like Ash should make a appearance in it in some capacity, however I do agree that it doesn't always necessarily need to be the starring role. He could play the role of a supporting character or even just a cameo if need be.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  9. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    Satoshi sells in the sense that he's too iconic not to be in the main series movies, but I do yearn for a change since he hasn't exactly thrilled me in any recent installments. Movie 21 in particular made him seem like a casual observer amid the new characters at best.
  10. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    but that was actually done well
  11. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    Not really. Some could have excluded Ash and nothing too major would happen as a consequence. Particularly the Manaphy movie. Ash had no real importance to the plot until near the end when he had to stop the Sea Temple from being destroyed but even then it felt forced into the story. May could have starred alone with Manaphy and Jackie with Jackie taking Ash’s place in saving the Temple. The Kyurem movie didn’t even need the main cast as they really did nothing to add to the plot other than finding an injured Keldeo and try to free the other Swords of Justice. Take them out of the movie and it still would have had the same result in Keldeo proves it’s strength and the other Swords acknowledge it as the newest Sword of Justice and Kyurem recognizes Keldeo is more than a braggart and sees it as a worthy opponent.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  12. pokedigijedi

    pokedigijedi Saiyan Jedi

    Well the Hoopa movie didn't need Ash, this review can say it better than I can:
  13. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    No they don't. He can be a supporting character or cameo(Even if it's like Stan Lee in the Marvel movies) but he isn't needed.
    Ash doesn't need to be in the starring role, it's not like the movies actually do anything for him.... well Lucario can be an exception as it began the whole aura aspect of him. Even when the movies were still canon, they stopped being referenced after DP. Genesect doesn't really count as it was more planting the seeds for the movie than referencing the movie like they did with Mewtwo, Lugia, Lucario, and numerous others.

    But I would like movies to revolve around characters that we do know; Rather it be a main character like Dawn/May, a rival like Gary or Paul, or even a minor character like Ritchie, those are just examples. I'm fine with original movie characters but only if we don't waste a movie introducing them then ditching them like Brock and Misty-lite from M20 and the whole dang city from 21, if they were to have original characters star then I'd like them to have a trilogy of films. That way we can have proper time to learn who the characters are and get to know the obligatory legendary(s) we must see in every movie.

    It'd be pretty cool if Ash showed up in Detective Pikachu actually
  14. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I obviously don't see it that way. If Satoshi's simply going to watch the plot pass him by, then he might as well not be involved in the movies. I can tolerate his companions overshadowing him no problem, but the idea of one-off movie characters getting more screen-time than him is ludicrous.
  15. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    The problem with Ash is that he has little to no stakes in some of the movies. He's only there because he happened to stumble upon a legendary or town with connection to legendaries. It's the same problem I have with the main anime when it comes to people around Ash having more reason to have emotional and physical investment. Why isn't the person with a direct connection to the movie plot the protagonist and Ash the supporting character? This kid literally pushed May out of the climax of her movie.
  16. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    I'm not sure what you mean. It was their movie, not his. He just happened to be passing through town.
    FlygontheRavager likes this.
  17. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    Here is my opinion on how important or not important Ash was to each movie and the reasons why:

    Mewtwo Strikes Back: Ash is vital because it was his sacrifice that made Mewtwo see the flaws in its views on life and humans.

    The Power of One: Iffy since the prophecy might have been referring to the world being destroyed when it mentions “ash” and not the name itself. It could be viewed from two perspectives depending on whether or not you use “Ash” as a proper noun or not.

    Spell of the Unown: Ash is needed as his own mother was abducted and needed saving.

    Pokémon 4 Ever: Sort of makes sense that he would run into a time traveling Prof. Oak.

    Pokémon Heroes: Important only because Latias took a great liking to Ash.

    Jirachi: Not necessary as the movie focused more on the relationship of Max and Jirachi and its powers.

    Deoxys: Iffy as he only got involved by simply being in the city at the time of Deoxys and Rayquaza showing up.

    Lucario: Vital as his aura matched Sir Aaron’s.

    Pokémon Ranger: Totally unneeded. Jackie could easily replace Ash in the climax and the results would be exactly the same.

    Darkrai, Giratina, And Arceus: Not really necessary to these three movies. Take Ash out and not too much would be different.

    Black and White: Ash only was there because Victini wanted to play with someone and also escape its imprisonment in the city. Anyone could fit that role.

    Zoroark: Ash could have been replaced by someone else and Zorua would still get help saving Zoroark.

    Kyurem: Ash being involved was a total joke. He did very little to add to the plot. Keldeo could have saved the other Swords by itself.

    Genesect: The Douse Drive Genesect took a liking to Ash and he does teach another Mewtwo the importance of the life of every Pokémon and human.

    Diancie: Ash is virtually uselesss here as the plot focused on the relationship of Diancie, Bonnie, And Serena.

    Hoopa: Lets not get into the utter mess this movie became.

    Volcanion: Only important to the movie because he was literally chained to Volcanion for most of the run time.

    I’ll leave the last two out as they are more like a soft reboot in the series and Ash is a different character.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
    fawfulmark2 and matt0044 like this.
  18. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    The paradox with Ash's involvement with the movies is that he seemingly needs to be there but not have any direct character development from the story. The movies can't be dependent on the Anime's story aside from minor shout-outs since not everybody can keep up with the series and certain parents with the kids might not follow. So Ash needs to be the same coming out as he was going in but that... doesn't make for a terribly good movie unless its about, well, Ash.
  19. Twilight-Kun

    Twilight-Kun Pokemon World Champion

    I'd be fine with a random background cameo of a kid with black hair wearing a red hat, jacket, and jeans in the Detective Pikachu movie with no spoken lines

    Or characters wearing game protagonist outfits in crowd shots
  20. Lord Starfish

    Lord Starfish Fond of owls

    The whole "The world will turn to Ash" thing was a dub-invention anyway. The original prophecy only called for a "skilled commander" to help Lugia, and everyone just sorta figured "Well, Satoshi's the only one here who fits the bill!" But really, he's about as necessary as anyone else in the movie is. The whole point of the movie (despite what the dub claimed) was that no one person could save the world alone, but that through everyone helping each other out they could. So sure, he doesn't technically do anything without help... but the same holds true for everyone else. Everyone's either giving support or being given support.

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