Do we underappreciate filler too much?

[Bortgreen]

Its why we should label these 'formulaic cotd/potd/Team Rocket episodes' over filler/non filler instead.

Or just "Cotd fillers"

The thing is a lot of the continuity progressing methods in the anime are formulaic as well. The episodes where a Pokemon evolves for example tend to follow the same beats:

* Pokemon wants to get stronger.
* Team Rocket attacks and is winning for once.
* Pokemon evolves from the pressure.
* Evolved Pokemon curbstomps TR like normal.

An enormous amount of captures also tend to involve the Pokemon being a wild renegade who the twerps protect and/or befriend as well. This might be a key reason people get so annoyed by alleged 'fake out' episodes where a capture doesn't happen despite following the same formula.

Evolutions are some of the best moments in the anime, but if you think about it the formula is just as repetitive as the Cotd fillers LOL(when it isn't a Cotd filler until the evolution)

 

[DatsRight]

I tend to prefer the rare subversion evolutions like when it occurs AFTER the Pokemon did all the hard task instead of serving as plot armour to do it effortlessly. Rare story segregated ones like Rockruff's are also impressive and sometimes gratifying.

I think it's generally when the formula takes over too often and supersedes actual agency from the cast that it becomes an annoyance, when you feel like no matter what the characters TRIED to do or what effort they put in, this automated path of story beats would make the direction for them. It chooses who's a winner, who's a loser, who gets a boost, who stays stagnant, nothing is EARNED, it is PICKED by this predictable flow. I think that's why SM's utter randomness and disintegration of old trends was quite cathartic, that it didn't feel pointless wondering if a character would do anything effective to the plot.

 

[Leonhart]

Evolutions are some of the best moments in the anime, but if you think about it the formula is just as repetitive as the Cotd fillers LOL(when it isn't a Cotd filler until the evolution)

It seems like most fans think along those lines, although I'm one of the few exceptions. I don't mind episodes where a cast member's Pokemon evolves since that's progress, but I don't think that those kinds of episodes are all-that special. For instance, I'd much rather watch a dozen of my favorite Kanto fillers than watch an episode from that same saga that featured an evolution.

 

[Bortgreen]

I tend to prefer the rare subversion evolutions like when it occurs AFTER the Pokemon did all the hard task instead of serving as plot armour to do it effortlessly. Rare story segregated ones like Rockruff's are also impressive and sometimes gratifying.

Most SM evolutions in general were handled more creatively than other series imo
Except Steenee and Tsareena that were in the classic TR style

 

[DatsRight]

Most SM evolutions in general were handled more creatively than other series imo
Except Steenee and Tsareena that were in the classic TR style

Compared to the other classmates, most of Mallow's pre-Shaymin limelight tended to involve the old formula actually (hell even Shaymin's one limelight episode was a TR filler, just a well rounded one with world and character building). Her squash in the league almost felt like it was admitting that this format hadn't developed a lot of agency with her Pokemon, getting by on the old automated formula for trainer accomplishments, but otherwise her best abilities and niches (and even Tsareena's) being human ones rather than Pokemon based ones. Her episodes branched out after, but they were more family/bond focused ones (maybe why her consolation prize was the most intimately synchronised Z Move in the series).

On another note, I always found it ironic that Charmander, one of few early evolutions triggered by doing the hard work and bonding first, was rewarded with gruelling disobedience and Ash constantly being told how poor a trainer he was.

 

[Leonhart]

On another note, I always found it ironic that Charmander, one of few early evolutions triggered by doing the hard work and bonding first, was rewarded with gruelling disobedience and Ash constantly being told how poor a trainer he was.

Wasn't it mainly Kasumi who gave Satoshi grief about his poor handling of Lizardon? I think Mewtwo and Kanna might've also made comments about Lizardon needing better training [although I can't remember if Mewtwo's comment was dub-only or part of the original dialogue]. As for Kanna, her appearance was one of the better fillers of the Orange Archipelago arc [if it's even considered filler to begin with] because she gave Satoshi constructive criticism.

 

[game3524]

Silver should've been the de facto rival for Satoshi in Jouto from my viewpoint, with Shigeru being delegated to side rival status.H aving an additional rival in that saga would've presumably meant less fillers since we would've seen Silver make major appearances periodically in place of episodes with lesser importance.

This would have been an awful move IMO since catching Gary was a major part of Ash's motivation. Relegating it to a secondary role undermines Ash's arc in the OS.

 

[Leonhart]

This would have been an awful move IMO since catching Gary was a major part of Ash's motivation. Relegating it to a secondary role undermines Ash's arc in the OS.

I can respect that. I just felt that Silver received the short end of the stick since all he ever got was a cameo in the Raikou special's credits, so it would've been nice if he had appeared during the main Jouto saga as part of a larger subplot involving the Rocket-dan or something, or even just in a filler episode at some point in that saga.

 

[EmeraldArcanine]

I don't mind filler at all, for instance SM's Baseball episode I just watched recently I had a fun time and enjoyed (And I'm not a sports OR Baseball fan so it's a big deal to make that stuff enjoyable for me) because of the animation and just seeing the characters do their thing in the setting and have fun/be competitive in ways that isn't Pokemon battle related tbh and I can see myself watching it again. I had way more fun watching that one filler episode than the plot-relevant Akala trials that's for sure. =.=
The issue for me is when the filler is boring and I can recall a few episodes in XY(Z), as much as I love that series gen, that I skipped and can't even remember the names of at worse. And man, I can't even remember most of the Johto fillers at all because I gave up on watching that gen when it got to the big chunks of it while it was airing, it's been so long since I've watched it too. The CoTD stuff I'm not really into either in all honesty, I think the only one I can remember to name is that Kalos boy rockstar with his Pikachu, his was a fun episode.

Basically I can like filler and appreciate it, but all I ask is for it to be entertaining in some way, and for there to not be too much. If it has nothing that really affects the plot, yet is something I still enjoy in the end, it's good filler. If I don't enjoy it, to me it's bad filler because idk I find it a waste. But ofc, "bad" and "good" are subjective so it's all a matter of opinion. I've learned to appreciate tho, just make it... ya know... good.

 

[game3524]

I can respect that. I just felt that Silver received the short end of the stick since all he ever got was a cameo in the Raikou special's credits, so it would've been nice if he had appeared during the main Jouto saga as part of a larger subplot involving the Rocket-dan or something, or even just in a filler episode at some point in that saga.

That I can get on board with. But having him as the main rival in place of Gary (when his rivalry with Ash doesn't get closure) doesn't sit well with me.

 

[LilligantLewis]

My biggest takeaway from reading this whole thread and thinking about this deeply:

The "filler formula" from the first four generations has truly started to dissipate in the last three generations, making it harder to classify what's filler.

In BW, XY, and SM, episodes that initially may seem to be filler based on our earlier definitions from the first four generations are truly not so:

Stephan initially seemed to be a COTD and yet became one of Ash's main rivals in BW, so much so that he gave him his best battle of the league. There are many other BW examples as well.

Bonnie's episodes taking care of Espurr, Flabébé, Lapras, and Tyrantrum were building up to her taking care of Squishy.

In SM the examples are too numerous to list out all of them, largely assisted by the "home base" formula of most episodes taking place on Melemele Island, but very frequently earlier episodes ended up tying in to more important episodes later on, that you wouldn't have noticed at first if you just take the plot at face value, like Mallow's first Oranguru episode introducing an important Pokémon who's not just a POTD, but appears many times later, including ending up giving Mallow her Z ring.

too many at a time are thrown at us like the ridiculous amount of time it took for Ash to battle Candace in DP due to enormous amounts of fillers.

Between Byron and Candice there were only 17 episodes, only 7 of which were filler.

Yeah I dunno why the writers couldn't handle developing Team Magma and Aqua back then. They had so much game material that they could've adapted and it all went to waste.

It's because it was the first time they were trying to write a "serious" villain arc. In Kanto and Johto, outside of the mini-arcs at Whirl islands and Lake of Rage, there was no overarching "arc" for Team Rocket, and the TRio were treated as comedic villains. Being told by higher-ups to handle multiple things at once, none of which they were used to, probably made it challenging: writing an overarching "serious" villain arc for once, handling multiple teams (three), fleshing out characters who were meant to be true villains, keeping TR in the picture even though they're not in the games. As you can see, there were multiple challenges they dealt with that I just listed out. As time went on, they got better as we can see with Team Galactic and Team Flare, and I'm also convinced Team Plasma would have been much different and better if it weren't for the earthquake cancelation. It just took experience. That's the simple answer to your question. It was the first time they were trying such an arc and that's why they messed it up.

in XYZ it lacked even the over the top comedy and self awareness to keep it going a little.

Really not sure what you're talking about here. I find XY29, XY37, XY71, XY79, XY84, XY&Z21, and XY&Z22 to be some of the funniest fillers in the show, most of them largely because of how over-the-top they were. I find myself rewatching these more than I rewatch a lot of the key plot episodes from XY&Z.

Let us make a defenition for Pokémon fillers ok? What is a good defenition?

A good and easy, hard to dispute definition may simply be: an episode that you can skip, and you'll never be confused watching any future episode.

However, as @Pokegirl Fan~ notes below, discussing what is an isn't a filler isn't the only problem.

Its why we should label these 'formulaic cotd/potd/Team Rocket episodes' over filler/non filler instead.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

This would have been an awful move IMO since catching Gary was a major part of Ash's motivation. Relegating it to a secondary role undermines Ash's arc in the OS.

How many episodes of the OS was Gary in for any meaningful period of time, and how many of that dozen were actually about their rivalry?