Do we underappreciate filler too much?

[AuraChannelerChris]

Kanto fillers were really crazy but in a good way.

The school in the mist with the arcade machines being used to judge how strong a Pokemon was.

The SS Anne arc.

All those beach episodes with the Dynamaxed, er, giant Tentacruel wrecking a whole city and the ghost episode with the (short-lived) Poke Fusions.

The shadowy giant Dragonite episode.

Most of the episodes that aired before the league arc.

Sadly, Johto was much less crazy.

 

[SerenaRulez]

His Kanto era fillers were quite amazing from my perspective, like the summer festival episode where Takeshi and Kojirou fell in love with a ghost. But then once the Jouto saga began, Mr. Shudo's writing skills seemed to slip and he gave us bad fillers like the Digda village one and the Yadon temple filler which was sort of interesting, but too philosophical for this series.

The maiden's peak episode was amazing! It was Gastly's first appearance and it was so cool to see it shapeshift and trick people just to keep an old legend alive.

 

[Kyloreywalk]

Sadly, Johto was much less crazy.

Yeah, Johto still had some really good and memorable fillers like that Unown ep, most of the Wobbufett eps, and some others here and there. But sadly Johto started the whole "COTD and TR formula" where Ash and co. would help a trainer with a problem, TR would come in to steal Pikachu or the pokemon of the day, rinse and repeat. If Johto was written the way Kanto was, it would have been much better.

 

[matt0044]

Yeah, it feels like Kanto was allowed to be crazy because they had yet to fully figure out how the game material would translate into the Anime format. They just ran rough-shot and got crazy in terms of storytelling. Johto felt like it was playing it safe more and was more tepid for it.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Good Filler is always appreciated

15+ episodes of mediocre Filler in a row, on the other hand, would drive anyone up the wall, or extremely long patches between memorable events or milestones, which doesn’t always include Filler, such as SM's entire second year, 95% of Best Wishes, or that stretch between the last gyms in Diamond and Pearl

 

[Leonhart]

Yeah, it feels like Kanto was allowed to be crazy because they had yet to fully figure out how the game material would translate into the Anime format. They just ran rough-shot and got crazy in terms of storytelling. Johto felt like it was playing it safe more and was more tepid for it.

Aside from Jouto's fillers feeling too safe and not daring or creative enough, my main issue with Jouto's filler episodes was the the sheer amount of them compared to Kanto's. It would've been easier to appreciate the good fillers in Jouto if that saga hadn't been plagued with about a hundred of them.

 

[Kyloreywalk]

Aside from Jouto's fillers feeling too safe and not daring or creative enough, my main issue with Jouto's filler episodes was the the sheer amount of them compared to Kanto's. It would've been easier to appreciate the good fillers in Jouto if that saga hadn't been plagued with about a hundred of them.

It's hard to believe Johto was 157 episodes long, that's longer than XY and SM were, and almost the length of AG and DP as a whole at 191 episodes. And since Misty didn't have a goal to reduce the filler load, it was ridiculous to sit through the first time through with only 1 ep a week.

 

[wobbanut]

I love many filler episodes myself, I don't know why people complain about them. Of course it depends on what you consider filler (my definition is no gym battle, league battle, pokemon catch/evolution, or character milestone). Episodes such as A Better Pill to Swallow, Claydol Big and Tall, Forrest Grumps, Meowth Rules, etc., are some of my favorites, and they're definitely fillers. On the other hand, Johto Journeys had some of the worst, most boring fillers (apart from Forrest Grumps and The Superhero Secret). It all comes down to personal preference.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I don't know why people complain about them.

Majority is a waste of time that take too many episodes away and try to be funny. Doesn't help many of these keep using the TR formula.

Of course it depends on what you consider filler.

Anything that doesn't leave a lasting impression that helps a character develop properly in a meaningful way.

 

[Leonhart]

On the other hand, Johto Journeys had some of the worst, most boring fillers (apart from Forrest Grumps and The Superhero Secret). It all comes down to personal preference.

I actually disagree there. I thought that the "Johto League Champions" season of the dub had the worst fillers while "Johto Journeys" had some of the better ones. I might be biased since I thought that the Gen II hype at the beginning of the region was exciting, but I feel like most other people also disliked the fillers in the middle of that region more than they disliked the fillers at the beginning. But I respect your opinion, regardless.

 

[DatsRight]

Johto Journeys still had some good ones here and there (Team Rocket focused ones like The Fortune Hunters being top tier ones) but I do think it was the clear start of the downfall, things were starting to become more formulaic by then.

As said, it seemed like by that point the writers weren't as good at making fillers revolved around the heroes personalities anymore, they needed goal focus or were mostly just reactors by then. I guess when the more depthful plans Shudo had were vetoed they perhaps lost interest in their more flawed aspects without the actual background behind it. Ash and Misty being frustrated brats who'd rush headfirst to prove themselves had less weight when the region they were in was far less of a judgemental crapsack Kanto was.

Johto still held up okay for a while since Team Rocket were still well written under Shudo's leadership and they often made for some great comedic stories as villain protagonists, but after the formula became more overbearing and Shudo quit I think even they got dumbed down besides as plot devices, only getting a few spotlight episodes every now and then.

 

[Leonhart]

Johto Journeys still had some good ones here and there (Team Rocket focused ones like The Fortune Hunters being top tier ones) but I do think it was the clear start of the downfall, things were starting to become more formulaic by then.

That was one of the more overrated fillers from Jouto from my perspective. I liked seeing Yamato and Kosaburou again, but I wasn't a fan of Kojirou being made into a complete joke with his Fire costume that made him look like an overgrown chicken. In the end that episode was just full of humiliating Rocket-dan moments, and I didn't find it funny.

 

[DatsRight]

That was one of the more overrated fillers from Jouto from my perspective. I liked seeing Yamato and Kosaburou again, but I wasn't a fan of Kojirou being made into a complete joke with his Fire costume that made him look like an overgrown chicken. In the end that episode was just full of humiliating Rocket-dan moments, and I didn't find it funny.

It does stand as one of few times Biff and Cassidy 'won' against Jessie and James (even if the twerps still easily dealt them a comeuppance).

I dunno, I think Hoenn was meaner to TR than Johto was. They were the straw losers for nearly everyone there and rarely even got many karmic revenges that often, even bigger joke antagonists like Harley kicked them around effortlessly. They also got way nastier beatings that series, while beforehand you knew if the twerps were particularly merciless it was usually because they'd REALLY crossed the line (eg. The Stolen Stones where they'd run rings around the twerps and made them suffer all the slapstick misery for most of the episode for once, justifying Ash wanting their blood in the end even after they surrendered, while Hoenn sometimes brought the same level viciousness for the stuff like stealing berries or just being a nuisance at the wrong time).

 

[Leonhart]

It does stand as one of few times Biff and Cassidy 'won' against Jessie and James (even if the twerps still easily dealt them a comeuppance).

I dunno, I think Hoenn was meaner to TR than Johto was. They were the straw losers for nearly everyone there and rarely even got many karmic revenges that often, even bigger joke antagonists like Harley kicked them around effortlessly. They also got way nastier beatings that series, while beforehand you knew if the twerps were particularly merciless it was usually because they'd REALLY crossed the line (eg. The Stolen Stones where they'd run rings around the twerps and made them suffer all the slapstick misery for most of the episode for once, justifying Ash wanting their blood in the end even after they surrendered, while Hoenn sometimes brought the same level viciousness for the stuff like stealing berries or just being a nuisance at the wrong time).

What I liked about the Rocket-dan based Houen fillers is that since they were the only Rocket-dan members in the region, we got to see them make a few plans to dominate the region for Sakaki. They ultimately failed of course and it was Satoshi and his friends who drove out the Magma-dan and Aqua-dan, but I liked episodes where the Rocket-dan trio tried to come up with schemes that would put their organization back on top.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

It isn't a filler, though, as Ash catches Krabby in this episode.

Catching Krabby wasn't.

The rest of the episode? That Bill wasn't even into storage technology.

 

[Leonhart]

It isn't a filler, though, as Ash catches Krabby in this episode.

I personally consider the second half of the episode to be filler, at the very least. The first half had a lot of important information that was relevant to the plot, but the back half was just Masaki talking about the giant Kairyu and it suddenly appearing and destroying part of the lighthouse. It was an amazing episode overall, though.

 

[Scorbunnie]

I love many filler episodes myself, I don't know why people complain about them. Of course it depends on what you consider filler (my definition is no gym battle, league battle, pokemon catch/evolution, or character milestone). Episodes such as A Better Pill to Swallow, Claydol Big and Tall, Forrest Grumps, Meowth Rules, etc., are some of my favorites, and they're definitely fillers. On the other hand, Johto Journeys had some of the worst, most boring fillers (apart from Forrest Grumps and The Superhero Secret). It all comes down to personal preference.

The Shuckle episode always makes me laugh and it's one of the best fillers from Johto because Brock got a bigger role in that episode than normal. Also the Ursaring episode is such a classic too.

 

[DatsRight]

I personally consider the second half of the episode to be filler, at the very least. The first half had a lot of important information that was relevant to the plot, but the back half was just Masaki talking about the giant Kairyu and it suddenly appearing and destroying part of the lighthouse. It was an amazing episode overall, though.

I guess that's the thing really, people relate 'filler' to the average formula with no variation, but there's plenty of continuity episodes that stick to that as well.

 

[Leonhart]

The Shuckle episode always makes me laugh and it's one of the best fillers from Johto because Brock got a bigger role in that episode than normal. Also the Ursaring episode is such a classic too.

The Ringuma episode was one of those rare fillers where the Rocket-dan came out looking good for the most part, mostly because Kojirou and Nyasu bonded with Kasumi and seemed unwilling to start trouble with her at the end of the episode when Musashi reunited with them.

 

[Jeal]

Fillers can be good episodes, if they are funny. However, most Pokémon ones are boring, following the same plot over and over. Ash meets Cotd/Potd, TR appears, battle, goodbye. No one cares about Cotds/Potds.