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Do you believe Aya, Koga's sister, is a substitute for Janine, Koga's daughter?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by shoz999, Oct 14, 2019.


Do you believe Aya is a substitute for Janine?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
  1. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Aya, Koga's sister, as seen in in the Pokemon anime.

    Janine, Koga's daughter, as seen in the Pokemon games & Pokemon Adventures manga.

    Janine is a fan-favorite Gym Leader among fans of the video games and Adventures manga, she being the daughter of Elite Four member Koga. However she never appeared in the anime and because of it, their are some Pokemon fans who only watch the anime that are genuinely unaware that Koga in the main canon has a daughter who took over the Fuschia Gym by the events of the Gen 2 games. However, a relative of Koga who has appeared in the anime is Aya, Koga's sister. She is not from the games but is an original character created for the anime who made her first debut in the Indigo League before Janine appeared officially in the Gen 2 games.

    On these grounds, one could simply reason based on this alone that she's not a substitute of Janine until you mention the Johto League arc. A number of characters from the previous Indigo League series have returned including Aya but what's interesting about this is that the Johto League arc got the return of Aya with Janine being absent. Also considering their similar roles as female ninja who studied under Koga as a relative, I can't help but wonder if Aya's return in the Johto series was seen as a substitute for Janine's character in the producer's eyes and thus there was no real reason for them to bring Janine into the anime series. In the end however, there's no proof but it's still interesting to know that unlike other characters of the games who never appeared, there is the possibility that there could be an actual reason behind Janine's absence. Whether it's a good or bad reason, is up to you.

    With that being said, do you believe Aya is a substitute for Janine? Especially during the time of Gen 2.
  2. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    No. Janine probably didn’t exist yet when the episode where Ash battled Koga.
    Spider-Phoenix and shoz999 like this.
  3. Emboar_Rulez

    Emboar_Rulez Pokémon Master (Kinda)

    Its sad that Janine is the only gym leader that hasnt appeared in the anime yet and probobly never will
  4. Bortgreen

    Bortgreen UP NEXT: Who gets to keep Gengar?

    Therefore, more like the opposite
    shoz999 likes this.
  5. Sham

    Sham Complicated

    I mean Ash, Brock, May and Max visited Fuchsia city in BF and by that time she was already created.
    shoz999 likes this.
  6. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    Let's break down on what we know and what the timeline was:

    We know that the anime team was aware of the Gold & Silver production because of the presence of Ho-Oh but not far enough given that Pikachu's Goodbye featured little Pikachu treated as the babies of the group (whereas even back in 1997, a prototype for Pichu was in the demo). Of course, GameFreak was still designing and redesigning Pokémon, so they may have put an embargo on any Gen II Pokémon they don't want to showcase on the anime yet.

    The 1997 Gold & Silver demo featured an early map where the entire region of Kanto was shrunken down to the size of a fairly large town. There's only one Gym and apparently, the Gym Leader was supposed to be Red. So it's highly unlikely that Janine was conceived at the time (or that Koga had moved up to the Elite Four of Kanto; debates tend to revolve around Misty or Giovanni).

    The Ninja Poké-Showdown aired in Japan on November 4, 1997. We also know that it takes five months to make an episode before air date, so the script was likely made in June-July range of 1997. But here's the catch, the 1997 Gold & Silver demo that was showcased in Spaceworld happened on November 15, 1997. That's long after the Pokémon anime debuted Aya (and longer when you count the production time), and that demo did not showcase Janine in any shape or form.

    Thus it is highly unlikely that Aya was meant to be a replacement for Janine based on the evidence we have. There are only two plausible scenarios in regards to Aya's relationship with Janine.

    1) Aya influenced the game developers for Gold & Silver but they wanted to add their own spin on Koga's relative and went for a daughter instead, likely to highlight her relative inexperience as well as giving an excuse for her conspicuous absence from the Gen I games (aka retcon).

    2) Janine was in development and the anime team got wind of it. But Janine at the time was conceived as Koga's sister at first and was changed later into production.
  7. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "And just what are you starin' at?"

    Nope. Those two are different. anime!Kanto took so many liberties with its gym leaders (Lt. Surge is an absolute unit of a man, Sabrina is god basically, Erika dislikes boys who make a bad impression on her and forbids them to fight her at her gym, Koga booby traps his gym, Blaine likes dressing as hippie Jeebus and puts all arriving challengers through the wringer with questions unrelated to Pokemon, Giovanni is allergic to Ash) more than the following gym leaders. Aya is just another creation unrelated to Janine.

    Janine had the chance to appear during BF, but as we all saw, BF was utterly devoid of Kanto cameos for whatever reason.
    shoz999 likes this.
  8. Emboar_Rulez

    Emboar_Rulez Pokémon Master (Kinda)

    What do you think would’ve happened if ash had the gym battle with Giovanni?
  9. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    It'd have put some actual reasoning into them wanting to get Pikachu for him.... rather than saying they want to give Pikachu for him, when he probably couldn't care less about some kid's rat
    LilligantLewis and Emboar_Rulez like this.
  10. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Off-topic but in my opinion, honestly no one would really know. Your talking about what would happen in one of the earliest Pokemon adaptations in it's earliest years which is pretty unpredictable at the time. This ran side-by-side with the Adventures manga too so no one would know if he would've been an OP trainer that lived up to his game title like the manga or that he would've been a relatively powerful trainer whose strength isn't anything special.
  11. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    It's quite easy to see Ash taunting Giovanni with the Earth Badge.
    Spider-Phoenix and shoz999 like this.
  12. Emboar_Rulez

    Emboar_Rulez Pokémon Master (Kinda)

    or he would sweep his team with mewtwo
    Spider-Phoenix and shoz999 like this.
  13. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Oh yeah. I forgot about Mewtwo, weird.
  14. thedarkdragon11

    thedarkdragon11 P4P Elite

    Would be nice if they reference Janine per se in the SwSh series...

    Ash would lose Pikachu for sure... The better question would be: can Ash beat him in a rematch (they had an unfinished battle in BW series where Pikachu was overwhelmed)?
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  15. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Writers - Ash wins against Giovanni because the plot said so!
    Older fans - THAT'S SO DUMB!
    Younger fans- THAT'S SO AWESOME!
    mehmeh1 likes this.
  16. Redstar45


    .... i take younger fans over older fans on that subject if Satoshi beat Sakaki for good
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  17. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    Going back on topic, what was more likely? GameFreak influencing the Anime or the Anime influence GameFreak? Or was it just coincidental? And since the original anime was intended to be a marketing vehicle to eventually pave way for Gold & Silver's release in 1997/1998, just how deep the relationship between the anime and the games were?

    We do know that prior to the release of the actual Gold & Silver, GameFreak originally called Red "サトシ" in the 1997 promos but it was also the placeholder name for the player protagonist in the Gold & Silver 1997 demo.
    Spider-Phoenix and shoz999 like this.
  18. Redstar45


    Well you have to remember that anime during the kantou arc was supposed to be end in half year but thank to both popular the Pokemon in world and that infamous porygon episode ....help extend the anime to last a four years until ruby and sapphire game is out.
  19. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    That's hard to say. The thing is Pokemon Gold & Silver is really like the "Part 2" to Red & Green, many of its concepts and ideas were as far back in Gen 1's development. It's why you can see so many Gen 2 references early on in many of the Pokemon Gen 1 adaptations. As for how deep the relationship is between the anime and the games, I have no clue at the time. Satoshi Tajiri has said he appreciates the anime bringing in a huge audience but has made it clear that the anime's ideas aren't his, that he would've handled the anime in a different direction. Going by this, I think it's likely that GameFreak influenced the anime or that it was coincidental. Though it would not surprise me either if one of the members on designing the game were influenced by the anime and created Janine. Thus, the mystery continues.
    mehmeh1 and Shadao like this.
  20. Redstar45


    Actually my friend say that tajri support shoudõ-san's anime and seem to ok with it going to differ his games

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