Do you believe Aya, Koga's sister, is a substitute for Janine, Koga's daughter?

[shoz999]

Actually my friend say that tajri support shoudõ-san's anime and seem to ok with it going to differ his games

Which is what I said.

 

[Redstar45]

Which is what I said.

I see and i think he realized that his game plot is not going to be a good plot for anime

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Going back on topic, what was more likely? GameFreak influencing the Anime or the Anime influence GameFreak? Or was it just coincidental? And since the original anime was intended to be a marketing vehicle to eventually pave way for Gold & Silver's release in 1997/1998, just how deep the relationship between the anime and the games were?

Definitely more coincidental with a bit of influence by Game Freak. The anime never really does influence Game Freak in any way, except for the times the anime wants to push its own marketing into the games (the Unova league competitors' teams being used in PWT battles and Ash-Greninja).

 

[Shadao]

On these grounds, one could simply reason based on this alone that she's not a substitute of Janine until you mention the Johto League arc. A number of characters from the previous Indigo League series have returned including Aya but what's interesting about this is that the Johto League arc got the return of Aya with Janine being absent. Also considering their similar roles as female ninja who studied under Koga as a relative, I can't help but wonder if Aya's return in the Johto series was seen as a substitute for Janine's character in the producer's eyes and thus there was no real reason for them to bring Janine into the anime series. In the end however, there's no proof but it's still interesting to know that unlike other characters of the games who never appeared, there is the possibility that there could be an actual reason behind Janine's absence. Whether it's a good or bad reason, is up to you.

So apparently, I forgot this part of the question. Well, let's address that quickly, shall we?

The Johto Saga was not simply a return for Aya but also a return for Suzie the Pokémon Breeder, Duplica (aka Copycat), Todd Snap and Ritchie. Save for Todd (who returned on March 15, 2001) and Ritchie (who returned on October 18, 2001), they all happened in short succession of each other's episode, between October 19, 2000, and December 7, 2000, specifically. This was also the period where they returned Vulpix back to Suzie, and retired Snubull as a running gag. Judging by that timeline, these episodes were aired after Pokémon 3 premiered in Japan on July 8, 2000 (and thus Pokémon 4Ever already in production). And using on the five months process to make an episode, that puts Suzie's episode in May and Aya's episode in July when they were first conceived. Based on that, we can conclude without a doubt that these were post-GS Ball episodes (aka scripts written/altered to accommodate the loss of the Celebi companion arc).

What am I getting at? My theory, based on these facts, is that these CotD comebacks were only done to entice nostalgia among older Pokémon viewers (namely the viewers who watched the show during the Kanto saga) to keep watching as they try to find anything that could replace the scrapped Celebi arc. Think about it. These episodes aired between Pokémon 3 and Pokémon 4Ever and aside from Todd's side adventure, you don't have a story arc in this period. Important stuff in Ecruteak City, which included Sakura the Kimino Girl and the Legend of Ho-Oh, weren't revisited until nearly a year later when Ash was passing by. The only things notable that happened between the two movies (aside from Pokémon Evolutions and Gym Badges) were returning CotD episodes, Ash winning a King's Rock in a Sumo Contest, and Gary's Umbreon. Other than that, just filler and more filler. It's only after Pokémon 4Ever that you start getting arcs like the Whirl Island Cup, the Lugia/Ritchie arc, Red Gyarados subplot, Phanpy Egg arc, and the Lavitar arc. It's also after Pokémon 4Ever that Kanto characters who didn't appear before make their debut, such as Karate Master Kiyo and Elite Four Lance. And aside from Ritchie and the Oak Family (of course), you don't really see returning Kanto characters appear that much in this period.

And this goes back to the original question: Why choose Aya instead of Janine for a Ninja Johto episode? Because Aya has more anime nostalgia. Janine would have been in effect a new CotD, especially if Koga doesn't appear. And since this was before the anime embraces its identity as a marketing vehicle for the games (which started during the AG/DP era), it would make more sense to bring Aya back into a filler episode since she has a better chance of recapturing old fans (however slim) back to the TV during the story drought.

 

[Sonnas]

So apparently, I forgot this part of the question. Well, let's address that quickly, shall we?

The Johto Saga was not simply a return for Aya but also a return for Suzie the Pokémon Breeder, Duplica (aka Copycat), Todd Snap and Ritchie. Save for Todd (who returned on March 15, 2001) and Ritchie (who returned on October 18, 2001), they all happened in short succession of each other's episode, between October 19, 2000, and December 7, 2000, specifically. This was also the period where they returned Vulpix back to Suzie, and retired Snubull as a running gag. Judging by that timeline, these episodes were aired after Pokémon 3 premiered in Japan on July 8, 2000 (and thus Pokémon 4Ever already in production). And using on the five months process to make an episode, that puts Suzie's episode in May and Aya's episode in July when they were first conceived. Based on that, we can conclude without a doubt that these were post-GS Ball episodes (aka scripts written/altered to accommodate the loss of the Celebi companion arc).

What am I getting at? My theory, based on these facts, is that these CotD comebacks were only done to entice nostalgia among older Pokémon viewers (namely the viewers who watched the show during the Kanto saga) to keep watching as they try to find anything that could replace the scrapped Celebi arc. Think about it. These episodes aired between Pokémon 3 and Pokémon 4Ever and aside from Todd's side adventure, you don't have a story arc in this period. Important stuff in Ecruteak City, which included Sakura the Kimino Girl and the Legend of Ho-Oh, weren't revisited until nearly a year later when Ash was passing by. The only things notable that happened between the two movies (aside from Pokémon Evolutions and Gym Badges) were returning CotD episodes, Ash winning a King's Rock in a Sumo Contest, and Gary's Umbreon. Other than that, just filler and more filler. It's only after Pokémon 4Ever that you start getting arcs like the Whirl Island Cup, the Lugia/Ritchie arc, Red Gyarados subplot, Phanpy Egg arc, and the Lavitar arc. It's also after Pokémon 4Ever that Kanto characters who didn't appear before make their debut, such as Karate Master Kiyo and Elite Four Lance. And aside from Ritchie and the Oak Family (of course), you don't really see returning Kanto characters appear that much in this period.

And this goes back to the original question: Why choose Aya instead of Janine for a Ninja Johto episode? Because Aya has more anime nostalgia. Janine would have been in effect a new CotD, especially if Koga doesn't appear. And since this was before the anime embraces its identity as a marketing vehicle for the games (which started during the AG/DP era), it would make more sense to bring Aya back into a filler episode since she has a better chance of recapturing old fans (however slim) back to the TV during the story drought.

You know that explains why Johto League Champions just felt like a nothing season since most of the episodes were all just filler, and also I felt like the CotD returns didn't feel that interesting except maybe Suzie.

 

[Zoruagible]

Writers - Ash wins against Giovanni because the plot said so!
Older fans - THAT'S SO DUMB!
Younger fans- THAT'S SO AWESOME!

Why would people be mad...?
Unless Team Rocket was still a thing... then that is justified. If Ash beat the Boss, then all of Team Rocket from that moment on would look like jokes

 

[shoz999]

Why would people be mad...?
Unless Team Rocket was still a thing... then that is justified. If Ash beat the Boss, then all of Team Rocket from that moment on would look like jokes

It's a joke about how older fans constantly expect the anime to be more like the games while kids enjoy the anime for what it is and thus the cycle repeats itself.

 

[RedJirachi]

So this might be why, of all gym leaders, Janine is the only one without an anime appearance. Of course, it might also have to do with being the one new gym leader in Gen 2, and in a part of the game which is post-game content

 

[Shadao]

So this might be why, of all gym leaders, Janine is the only one without an anime appearance. Of course, it might also have to do with being the one new gym leader in Gen 2, and in a part of the game which is post-game content

Post-Game is not really an issue since our heroes did go to Mt. Silver, which was inaccessible until you beat the Kanto Gym Leaders. I do have to wonder if there is a sense of old shame from the anime producers since they never bring the Kanto Gym Leaders back aside from Misty, Brock and Giovanni. Like they regretted not making the anime incarnations be more like the games.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

1) Aya influenced the game developers for Gold & Silver but they wanted to add their own spin on Koga's relative and went for a daughter instead, likely to highlight her relative inexperience as well as giving an excuse for her conspicuous absence from the Gen I games (aka retcon).

2) Janine was in development and the anime team got wind of it. But Janine at the time was conceived as Koga's sister at first and was changed later into production.

Going back on topic, what was more likely? GameFreak influencing the Anime or the Anime influence GameFreak? Or was it just coincidental?

I vote on theory 3. Complete coincidence.

I feel like the anime and GF staff just decided it'd be good to put a "cute ninja girl" and thus Aya and Janine were born.

 

[Jeal]

It's a joke about how older fans constantly expect the anime to be more like the games while kids enjoy the anime for what it is and thus the cycle repeats itself.

It's the opposite for me, I hope the anime gets further and further from games, their stories are terrible(except BW).

 

[shoz999]

It's the opposite for me, I hope the anime gets further and further from games, their stories are terrible(except BW).

What a twist. So twisty.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

To be fair, the XY anime did improve the games' plot a lot even if they didn't use the AZ bits.

 

[Jeal]

To be fair, the XY anime did improve the games' plot a lot even if they didn't use the AZ bits.

I wouldn't say they did ''improve'', it's still a pretty dumb story. The difference is that there was a lot of action and for the first time there was a fight with the main villain.

 

[Redstar45]

I wouldn't say they did ''improve'', it's still a pretty dumb story. The difference is that there was a lot of action and for the first time there was a fight with the main villain.

Dunno about that as i love games as i am think that anime show should add new twist to lore of Gameverses

 

[Leonhart]

Since Aya was introduced before Anzu was formally revealed in G/S/C, I don't think that Aya was meant to be the anime version of Anzu. I do think that the writers erred in the Jouto saga by not introducing Anzu, however. They had the perfect chance to do so in the Ariados debut episode, but for whatever reason they gave us Aya again, instead.

 

[LilligantLewis]

The anime never really does influence Game Freak in any way

I think that the idea for Alola came from the Orange Islands.

Think about it.

Four islands, just like there were four gym leaders in Orange.

The gyms were different, not just battling, in Orange; similarly, trials are unique/different tasks, rather than just battling, when compared to the first 6 gens of games.

Even things like the Crystal Onix could have birthed the idea of Alolan forms (even though there's no logical type combination for that potential Crystal Onix that would explain its weaknesses and resistances displayed in that episode)

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I think that the idea for Alola came from the Orange Islands.

Think about it.

Four islands, just like there were four gym leaders in Orange.

The gyms were different, not just battling, in Orange; similarly, trials are unique/different tasks, rather than just battling, when compared to the first 6 gens of games.

Even things like the Crystal Onix could have birthed the idea of Alolan forms (even though there's no logical type combination for that potential Crystal Onix that would explain its weaknesses and resistances displayed in that episode)

Huge coincidence, then.

 

[shoz999]

I think that the idea for Alola came from the Orange Islands.

Think about it.

Four islands, just like there were four gym leaders in Orange.

The gyms were different, not just battling, in Orange; similarly, trials are unique/different tasks, rather than just battling, when compared to the first 6 gens of games.

Even things like the Crystal Onix could have birthed the idea of Alolan forms (even though there's no logical type combination for that potential Crystal Onix that would explain its weaknesses and resistances displayed in that episode)

No. They chose Hawaii for it's clear oceans that reflected the Sun and Moon, not because of the Orange Islands. I think however the Sevii Isles are inspired by the Orange Isles because they function as an extension of Kanto.