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Do you believe in supernatural things?

Do You Believe In the Supernatural?


  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

DracosWulfgar

what ever........
Strange things have always happend to me and my family for a long time.Ever since my stepfather passed away, we have been protected somehow against somethings.One day we were going down our driveway, going to a family party, then my mom lost control of the brakes(The car we had to use at the time was very old.)we just kept going we couldn't stop it or make it turn, If the car had kept going we would have crashed into a gas pipeline.Somehow the car suddenly jerked to the right which made it crash into a tree, just feet away from possibly exploding.From that day forward we have always kinda knew there was someone watching over us.I know it sounds strange but that was the ONLY thing that kept us safe and alive today.This might also sound strange, but everyone in my family has somekind of ability.I have multiple abilitys, I am extremely strong empath with both humans and animals. I can astral project to people who live halfway across a country. Things move around me when I dont have control of my emotions.I can also see peoples auras.My mom use to do divination stuff but wont ever do it now.I get my empathy from her. She can also find ANYTHING. My dad is were I get my astral projection strengthened, becuse my mom's uncle could also do that.My great grandmother is extremely lucky.My great grandfather can get any machine to work no matter what.My stepfather, when he was alive would get morning sickness at the exact same time as my mom before she had my twin brothers. Half A State Away.Thats just the tip of the iceberg of strange things that happen to us.So do you believe in the supernatural?Edit:This is a discussion thread, not a debate thread.If you believe you can talk about stuff on here, If you don't you can just simply post saying you don't and you don't have to come back here.After the poll ends we can start discussing stuff on here.
 
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Conquering Storm

Driver of the Aegis
I don't believe that supernatural stuff exists, but since it's an unfalsifiable hypothesis, I can't say for sure that it doesn't exist.

On the other hand, a lot of the stories about supernatural-seeming occurrences can't be explained by what we currently understand of science. For example, several of my relatives, as well as one of my friends (who isn't related to my family at all), have dreams that predict the near future. Personally, I think it's more likely that this kind of thing can be explained by some kind of science we haven't yet discovered than that it can be attributed to otherworldly phenomena, but who knows?

Even if supernatural phenomena were proven to exist, I wouldn't believe in it, because there's no point believing in something that exists. It would be like believing in tables. (Yes, this is how I approach life in general. A blend of skepticism and semantics.)
 

DracosWulfgar

what ever........
Extraterrestrials

Everyone thinks that there is no such thing as Extraterrestrials, or UFOs, but there is.
People see them nearly all the time and report them, but when the government gets involved they say that it was some passing plane or a weather balloon. The thing is though it really is aliens and UFOs the governments just covers it up so the entire world doesn't go into total panic mode.

Abductions could be real though...
I can't say that any thing like that has happend to me or anyone I know, but NOBODY BELIEVED me when three stars in the shape of a triangle stayed in the same spot for five days and did not move AT ALL.

I believe however that we [as a planet.] have had encounters with aliens all throughout our History.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Alien life isn't supernatural by any stretch of the word. This is a conversation for a different topic.

To answer your question, not only do I not believe in supernatural things, but I believe that the very concept of supernatural is, by its own definition, impossible. As nature colloquially refers to things found in the observable universe around us, it's pretty safe to say that nature and reality are synonyms in this context. If something is supernatural, or outside of or above nature, it is outside of or above reality. In other words, unreal.

Even if magic, witchcraft, ghosts, or whatever your superstition is were real, they wouldn't be supernatural, they would simply be a facet of nature we have yet to understand. But there is absolutely zero credible scientific evidence for any of these supposed phenomenon and anyone who can prove otherwise under proper observatory conditions would have been, until very recently, eligible for a million dollars from the JREF. However, in 2015 the JREF terminated the challenge in order to use the money for something more productive after it had gone unclaimed since 1964.
 
On the other hand, a lot of the stories about supernatural-seeming occurrences can't be explained by what we currently understand of science. For example, several of my relatives, as well as one of my friends (who isn't related to my family at all), have dreams that predict the near future. Personally, I think it's more likely that this kind of thing can be explained by some kind of science we haven't yet discovered than that it can be attributed to otherworldly phenomena, but who knows?
In fact, this is pretty much explained by a combination of statistics and how our memories frequently get distorted without us noticing.
 

DracosWulfgar

what ever........
  • First
I am not a troll, I had a bad day last time.
  • Second
That alien stuff isn't really normal to most of us, but whatever, I think that the supernatural stuff is just really extraordinary cool nature so... Whatever you believe thats fine I won't force you to believe.
 
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Jirachi100

Kirby Fan
My answer isn't really there. I want to believe, but I have to experience something to be able to. Well, besides the dream I had about what I found at a thrift store. That didn't convince me enough. If I were to just choose that I don't believe, it wouldn't feel right.
 

DracosWulfgar

what ever........
So maybe could discuss magic and magical creatures this time.
If there was anything you could try to magik into being what would it be? ( other than pokemon. )
Personally I would make a time portal to go back to a time were my stepdad was still alive and see if I can just try to save him, so my mom can be truly happy again.
So if any Magical creature was around ( good kind ) what would you do with it?
I would befriend a dragon and go explore everywere.
 

Hakajin

Obsessive Shipper
Mm, mostly. I mean, I'm skeptical; I'll look for any and all other explanations first. I've had a few strange things happen to me. Like, once in a while, when I'm lying wide-awake in bed, it feels like one of my cats has jumped on my bed and is walking up to me, but when I look, nothing's there. One time, when I was in college, I heard humming near my bed. My roommate was asleep, there were no vents nearby, the door and windows were closed, and we were on the third floor. Again, I'm sure I was wide-awake. And one time in drama class... well, our teacher would sit on the stage and lecture while we all sat in the audience seats. One time, the lights backstage were going on and off, but no one was back there. This isn't something that happened a lot, either, so it didn't seem like it was the wiring. None of that really convinces me, but...

Some of my friends have had much stranger stuff than that happen. One of them got pulled down the stairs at home by someone who wasn't there, and the same thing later happened to her friend at the same place; one of the previous occupants was a woman who'd died falling down the stairs. Same friend was taking a shower at a friend's house, and she saw a shadow reaching to grab the shower curtain; no one was there when she looked. Also stayed in one of our dorms by herself once, and heard running up and down the hall, doors slamming, all night long. She's seen and heard a lot of stuff... Incidentally, she also says she's an empath, other people's emotions stick to her, and she can't wear a watch because she drains batteries. I think it's all related. Oh, she also said that our printer moved about an inch toward her when she was reaching for it once. I wasn't there, but... Another friend on our hall was brushing her teeth one morning, and someone was showering in the shower behind her. When the water turned off, she turned around to see who was gonna come out, but the curtain was open, and no one was there. Oh, and this was all in the same dorm where I heard the humming.

My mom had some strange experiences. She knew when my grandfather tried to kill himself, before anyone told her. One time she got a strong feeling like she should slow down in her car, so she did, even though she felt silly... and some kid ran out in front of her from between parked cars.

Mostly, I'm in the position where I want to believe in stuff, and I think it makes sense, but at the same time, I doubt, because I feel like I'm trying to believe what I want to believe. But I feel like really, my anxiety skews my beliefs more than what I want to believe.
 

DracosWulfgar

what ever........
Well I am not making this up nor am I proud of this, but I FEEL family members and Pets pass away. I have never told anyone this before
 

Conquering Storm

Driver of the Aegis
In fact, this is pretty much explained by a combination of statistics and how our memories frequently get distorted without us noticing.

True, but some of the stories can't be explained away just like that. And one can't just reject a hypothesis because one doesn't think it makes sense. There's no real evidence either way, but the existence of supernatural phenomena is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's highly unlikely, but it might – just might – exist.

(Funny thing is, I'd never expected to find myself defending supernatural belief to someone else. I'm a very skeptical person about this kind of thing.)
 
True, but some of the stories can't be explained away just like that. And one can't just reject a hypothesis because one doesn't think it makes sense. There's no real evidence either way, but the existence of supernatural phenomena is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's highly unlikely, but it might – just might – exist.

(Funny thing is, I'd never expected to find myself defending supernatural belief to someone else. I'm a very skeptical person about this kind of thing.)

The problem is that by that logic, every unfalsifiable theory should be treated equally. That means that literally an infinite amount of other unfalsifiable explainations may be the real cause of somthing supernatural. In other words, this means that the chances of any of those are actually real are zero (or at least, a zero with an infinite amount of zeroes before an eventual theoretical 1).
The other problem is that Occam's Razor is a thing. In this case, more likely explainations for things mentioned in this thread are that people misremember dreams, people exaggerate, coincidence, hallucinations even, or people flat out lying. Think about how incredibly easy and common lying is. Add that all to the fact that there's a lot of proof on the opposite side of the argument (take for example the fact we know that our brain is who we are, and that there thus can exist no such thing as what people think of as ghosts)...

So while I agree that it can't be disproven, I don't think that should ever be used as an argument, and it is in fact a highly frowned upon fallacy when used in more serious discussions. Of course, this is just a random thread on a Pokémon forum, so it's not really important or anything (and don't think I'm sitting here with foaming mouth typing this), but still wanted to point it out.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
True, but some of the stories can't be explained away just like that. And one can't just reject a hypothesis because one doesn't think it makes sense. There's no real evidence either way, but the existence of supernatural phenomena is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's highly unlikely, but it might – just might – exist.

(Funny thing is, I'd never expected to find myself defending supernatural belief to someone else. I'm a very skeptical person about this kind of thing.)

The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, or else you can spout any bullcrap and no one would be able to reject your claim
 

Hakajin

Obsessive Shipper
The problem is that by that logic, every unfalsifiable theory should be treated equally. That means that literally an infinite amount of other unfalsifiable explainations may be the real cause of somthing supernatural. In other words, this means that the chances of any of those are actually real are zero (or at least, a zero with an infinite amount of zeroes before an eventual theoretical 1).
The other problem is that Occam's Razor is a thing. In this case, more likely explainations for things mentioned in this thread are that people misremember dreams, people exaggerate, coincidence, hallucinations even, or people flat out lying. Think about how incredibly easy and common lying is. Add that all to the fact that there's a lot of proof on the opposite side of the argument (take for example the fact we know that our brain is who we are, and that there thus can exist no such thing as what people think of as ghosts)...

So while I agree that it can't be disproven, I don't think that should ever be used as an argument, and it is in fact a highly frowned upon fallacy when used in more serious discussions. Of course, this is just a random thread on a Pokémon forum, so it's not really important or anything (and don't think I'm sitting here with foaming mouth typing this), but still wanted to point it out.

But what you have to think about is, how likely is it that people are hallucinating, misremembering, or dreaming? It a lot of cases, especially when people are grieving, yeah, that makes sense. But it makes less sense when you're talking about people who have no history of hallucinations, aren't under any stress, and aren't expecting it. Especially when we're talking about the inexplicable. Because when people misremember or imagine stuff, it's usually about things that fit with their day-to-day life, things they would expect. It's the brain filling in gaps. And if a memory is especially weird or inexplicable, they question it. And when even after that, they're convinced, and they have no history or extenuating circumstances... It's not proof, but... I just don't think it's likely that all cases are mistakes and distortions. What really gets me is the times when people describe the same experiences, in detail, with no knowledge that anyone else experienced anything at all.

Of course, it makes more sense with my beliefs about consciousness. And those are... Well, certainly, the brain makes us who we are, but the idea that brain activity creates consciousness is problematic. Sure, chemical reactions produce heat, changes in color, sound, etc. But that's how we experience chemical reactions. If you try to describe it purely by what's actually there and what's happening, what do you get? What you have is particles rearranging themselves, energy being released and absorbed; you can't get more than you put in, and there's no change in the actual quality of the matter. That'd be multiplying 0 enough times to get 1, it's nonsense. Even the person who coined the term emergent phenomena (i.e. cases where the whole behaves different than the parts) admits this.

Some people believe that matter really is conscious on some level, but that creates new problems. Like... Well, if some matter is conscious, then it stands to reason that all matter is conscious, because it's all basically the same stuff in different patterns. So is light conscious? What about sound? Like, where does one consciouness begin and the other end? The chemicals in our brain are constantly changing, so how is stable consciousness even possible? Some say that who we are is constantly changing, too, but if that were the case... Wouldn't you end up with two or more consciousnesses in the same body, one fading and one fading away? And since memories would have to be copied, wouldn't the new consciousness have the old consciousness' memory of fading away? I suppose you could say that only certain elements of the brain are conscious... but which ones? The neurons? Which neurons? What part of the neuron? Why don't we have awareness of what each individual neuron is doing? How do many different small consciousnesses come to create one larger one? I suppose you could explain that with quantum physics... But then you come back to the question of, why is only part of us part of our consciousness, where does one begin and another end? Also, if matter and consciousness are one and the same, then the same has to be true of the abstract and the concrete, that is, concepts like truth and justice would have to be brain chemicals themselves, not the result of them.

What I believe is that consciousness is something immaterial that experiences the brain. Actually, my conclusion is that neither scenario is workable, and none of us should be here. But here we are. Although, I think that's why some people say that consciousness is an illusion. Which is just completely illogical, because the concept of illusion is predicated upon the concept of perception i.e. consciousness. An illusion is something perceived that isn't there in objective reality. So to say that perception is an illusion is to say that perception is a thing perceived that isn't really there; it's nonsense.
 
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Consciousness exists only through brain activity, thus matter itself cannot be classified as having something with any form of consciousness. That's simply what it is. Also, consciousness is all about subjectiveness. And actually, we know what brain regions are most important for creating consciousness, although I've forgotten at the moment. We actually know a lot about the brain, something people often seem to underestimate as they seem to think it's this mysterious supercomputer in their minds (well it still kinda is, of course).
Keeping that in mind, hallucinations and such are not objectively there; they don't exist consistently in everyone's world, but they are subjectively there. And our consciousness stems from that.

And yes, the brain is changing constantly, new neural connections are being formed all the time, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a very consistent quality to it as well. Just like how a house stays the same house even when your replace or shift furniture, or how a computer still is the same computer when you install software updates and change and add files on it.

But as for the discussion at hand - hallucinations and such are just a few possible explainations. Lying, attention seeking and even believing in something because you want to believe in it, despite it not actually being there, are the real cause most of the time. What I was trying to say is that there are many, many logical conclusions you can draw before ever having to resort to something like supernatural forces as an explaination.
Occam's Razor may seem like a bit of an abstract thing to a lot of people, but it extends to literally every part of your life, constantly.
 

Hakajin

Obsessive Shipper
Consciousness exists only through brain activity, thus matter itself cannot be classified as having something with any form of consciousness. That's simply what it is. Also, consciousness is all about subjectiveness. And actually, we know what brain regions are most important for creating consciousness, although I've forgotten at the moment. We actually know a lot about the brain, something people often seem to underestimate as they seem to think it's this mysterious supercomputer in their minds (well it still kinda is, of course).
Keeping that in mind, hallucinations and such are not objectively there; they don't exist consistently in everyone's world, but they are subjectively there. And our consciousness stems from that.

And yes, the brain is changing constantly, new neural connections are being formed all the time, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a very consistent quality to it as well. Just like how a house stays the same house even when your replace or shift furniture, or how a computer still is the same computer when you install software updates and change and add files on it.

But as for the discussion at hand - hallucinations and such are just a few possible explainations. Lying, attention seeking and even believing in something because you want to believe in it, despite it not actually being there, are the real cause most of the time. What I was trying to say is that there are many, many logical conclusions you can draw before ever having to resort to something like supernatural forces as an explaination.
Occam's Razor may seem like a bit of an abstract thing to a lot of people, but it extends to literally every part of your life, constantly.

That doesn't make any sense, though. You can't get a new quality out of something simply by fact of its arrangement and interaction. Our consciousness cannot possibly stem from subjective experience; that's saying that perception arises from perceiving, which doesn't make any sense; in other words, consciousness is a pre-requisite for subjective experience. I'm not saying it's mysterious, I'm saying it's logically impossible. There is no reason for consciousness to exist; since brain activity all comes down to physics, we would function exactly the same unconscious as we do now. Since brain activity is chemicals and electrons, the only other option is that those things are conscious in and of themselves. Otherwise, you're left with this ethereal thing that's caused by matter but not actually made of anything. So if that which composes consciousness is lost, something of ourselves should be lost; the new shouldn't be able to be integrated into ourselves.

And that's about as clear as I can make my position, so I'm just gonna leave that paragraph there and let it stand for itself.
 
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Since brain activity is chemicals and electrons, the only other option is that those things are conscious in and of themselves. Otherwise, you're left with this ethereal thing that's caused by matter but not actually made of anything.

Consicousness is exactly that, it's an immaterial thing. The definition that was used in the book that was used for the psychological science course at my university is: "one's subjective experience of the world, resulting from brain activity". I think that sums is up pretty nicely. It is really that 'simple'. You're kind of veering into philosophical terrain.

The reason it's subjective is because it differs from person to person, and that comes from the brain, not the sensory organs (that's not to say that something can't be wrong with your eyes or something). After all, if you're drunk, delusional or have some kind of brain defect, the world around you does not change, but your experience of it does.

And no, neurons themselves do not cause consciousness per se. After all, if you would somehow be able to only keep the brain region responsible for keeping your organs going/body regulated, and the rest of the neurons in your body but not your brain, you're still not really conscious, even though there's still a neuron network. Also, while you are conscious, a lot of things happen unconsciously, so consciousness isn't your whole 'you' per se.

But just trust me that these are just the definitions of consciousness that people smarter than us have created. I'm neither good at explaining, nor an expert on this, but this is how it is. It's not my personal view on it that I created by thinking about this, it's just how it works.
 
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