Do you care about companions “out shinning” Ash?

[Almighty Zard]

I still think iris only got Dragonite to reflect the fact she became Champion in the black 2 and white 2 games, and the only time it was annoying was when she beat Georgia in the first round of that final mini tournament they had, because Georgia called her out for not having control over it, but Iris didn't care and seemed to take pride in that win, it never really bothered me any other time, and heck Ash beat it down twice, once with Krookodile, and then later on with Charizard (even if the fight wasn't finished, it was obvious Charizard had it beaten)

I don't get kiawe though (though if we're going to talk about "Z-crystals" I think he should've gotten Dragon instead of Flying and Ash should've gotten Flying instead of Steel)

As far as Gou (well goes) I don't care that he's capturing more, because he's still shown to be a rookie when it comes to combat.

Now if he was to start battling more, and relying on these fresh captures and somehow getting to Ash's level without raising his pokemon then I would have a problem with it.

but for now I don't care.

I feel Goh our shining Ash is good for the current anime. I felt Ash should have taken a step back after winning the Alola League. The anime needs to focus a LOT less on Ash.

Still don't understand why out of all other similar animes of the genre, the writers of pokemon won't pull the trigger and let Ash go, in one way it's interesting because of said refusal, but the longer they hold onto him the worse it's going to get for him.

Thankfully this series so far has thrown so many curveballs it keeps us on our toes, but beyond the PWC I don't see what else they can do with Ash even if he doesn't win it.

 

[DatsRight]

I don't get kiawe though (though if we're going to talk about "Z-crystals" I think he should've gotten Dragon instead of Flying and Ash should've gotten Flying instead of Steel)

If anything Kiawe getting Flyium Z was so they could get away with Ash having Firium Z as well without outshining him. They already dithered with Mallow and Sophocles getting their typing Z Crystals because Ash already had them (which is weirder in the case of Sophocles because Pikachu had loads of other Z Moves to work off of besides Electrium Z, including his own 'special' one).

 

[Leonhart]

I still think iris only got Dragonite to reflect the fact she became Champion in the black 2 and white 2 games, and the only time it was annoying was when she beat Georgia in the first round of that final mini tournament they had, because Georgia called her out for not having control over it, but Iris didn't care and seemed to take pride in that win, it never really bothered me any other time, and heck Ash beat it down twice, once with Krookodile, and then later on with Charizard (even if the fight wasn't finished, it was obvious Charizard had it beaten)

I definitely felt that Iris beating Langley using a disobedient Pokemon was unfair. I could overlook the fact that Langley's team had a type advantage against Kairyu, but not the fact that Iris somehow managed to win despite not really doing anything. But on this subject, I also didn't like that the writers did a 18o with Kairyu by making him lose constantly after it finally began listening to Iris.

 

[Ignition]

No because, as much as I like most of his companions, I honestly don't think they do outshine Ash so it doesn't bother me when they're getting some more screentime than usual

 

[Zoruagible]

It depends. When Iris got her Dragonite I thought she did not deserve it because she could barely handle Axew and Emolga but I was not mad that she had such a powerful Pokemon when Ash did not. I only get upset when one of Ash's friends does something that feels too good to be true.

This is exactly it.
She wants to be a Dragon Master, yet instead of evolving Axew or giving her the Deino and raising that they flat out give her an undeserved Dragonite. She should have raised a Dragon from first stage to final, getting a fully evolved one just felt unearned. Especially as for some reason they felt the need to ignore the other two Unova Dragons, Druddigon's appearances were at least decent but look at the poor Deino line's appearances, save for Cameron and Ryuki they're all forgettable!

Ah but I forgot, any criticism towards Iris and Goh is unjust yet it's perfectly okay to bash Riolu and Ash 24 freaking 7!

 

[Sham]

This is exactly it.
She wants to be a Dragon Master, yet instead of evolving Axew or giving her the Deino and raising that they flat out give her an undeserved Dragonite. She should have raised a Dragon from first stage to final, getting a fully evolved one just felt unearned. Especially as for some reason they felt the need to ignore the other two Unova Dragons, Druddigon's appearances were at least decent but look at the poor Deino line's appearances, save for Cameron and Ryuki they're all forgettable!

Ah but I forgot, any criticism towards Iris and Goh is unjust yet it's perfectly okay to bash Riolu and Ash 24 freaking 7!

The problem I have with people saying that Iris should of raised a Dragon pokemon and fully evolved one is where was this energy with Misty who had the same EXACT GOAL? Misty didn’t evolve a water Pokémon until we were well into Johto if memory serves me right and that was Politoed. So I don’t really understand where evolving Pokémon coloreates to being a type master. If you’re going to be mad that Iris caught a fully evolved Pokémon without “raising” another Dragon Pokémon be mad that Misty caught a Gyarados under the same circumstance.

 

[LilligantLewis]

The problem I have with people saying that Iris should of raised a Dragon pokemon and fully evolved one is where was this energy with Misty who had the same EXACT GOAL? Misty didn’t evolve a water Pokémon until we were well into Johto if memory serves me right and that was Politoed. So I don’t really understand where evolving Pokémon coloreates to being a type master. If you’re going to be mad that Iris caught a fully evolved Pokémon without “raising” another Dragon Pokémon be mad that Misty caught a Gyarados under the same circumstance.

Misty caught a Gyarados in Chronicles not in the main series, Gyarados didn't give her her two biggest accomplishments of the series (beating her rival for the only time, beating the previous Pokégirl), Gyarados was never something people in the fandom wanted Ash to get, Misty came at a time before the fandom saw how well female characters could be written (May and Dawn), Misty didn't ever have a Water Pokémon who had a dream about fully evolving

 

[Leonhart]

The problem I have with people saying that Iris should of raised a Dragon pokemon and fully evolved one is where was this energy with Misty who had the same EXACT GOAL? Misty didn’t evolve a water Pokémon until we were well into Johto if memory serves me right and that was Politoed. So I don’t really understand where evolving Pokémon coloreates to being a type master. If you’re going to be mad that Iris caught a fully evolved Pokémon without “raising” another Dragon Pokémon be mad that Misty caught a Gyarados under the same circumstance.

I think people put more pressure on Iris in general, and the fact that she captured a "pseudo-Legendary" rubbed some viewers the wrong way since up to that point Kairyu was a species that was generally considered to be tough. Most people probably thought it was unfair or unrealistic for Iris to capture a Pokemon of that magnitude instead of her capturing its pre-evolved form and working her way up.

 

[k6666]

It depends. When Iris got her Dragonite I thought she did not deserve it because she could barely handle Axew and Emolga but I was not mad that she had such a powerful Pokemon when Ash did not. I only get upset when one of Ash's friends does something that feels too good to be true.

how can she not deserve it when she need work her a*s up tame the dragon , even when under her control he didn't win a single battle how can you say that power full , if i compare how the way iris and ash get dragonite , i prefered iris cause she need work with it and still struggle with it while ash just teach the dragon dance and boom it evolve and boom it take a ton damage of mega luke and still standing and manage One Hit KO it.
sure she cant barely handle emolga and axew but its same can be said to misty where she can handle goldeen who still stuck as goldeen in entire run of OS or horsey who she catch one episode and never use it again .
and please for the user who said this forum is 24/7 hating riolus and ash , there few hating and valid criticism why they dislike it and they dont call the character writer pet , psycopath or something else , or hate some character just because little catchphrase .
back to the topic, honestly i don't care , if it is than it's great because post DP is really rare to see companion outshining ash these days

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Honestly, I had no issues with Iris getting Dragonite.

The only odd thing is Dragonite willing to go with her then starting to be disobedient. Seems like dragon's couldn't make up their mind. I'd rather Iris caught her after a battle with Excadrill then everything else plays out as it did

The problem I have with people saying that Iris should of raised a Dragon pokemon and fully evolved one is where was this energy with Misty who had the same EXACT GOAL?

Because misty came first, obviously thus nostalgia shield card is on play.

 

[DatsRight]

The thing was Iris capturing an elusive powerful Pokemon she didn't have the experience to control WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. It was meant to work as a break the haughty arc for her (which in fairness does work for a more arrogant archetype such as Iris) and realising she was more fallible than she thought and had to put in the real effort.

There was attempts at Iris trying to prove she deserved that Pokemon and power level, compared to say, Misty, who was completely stagnant until the final points of Johto, and usually got by on dumb luck with her untrained Pokemon conveniently doing an OP move, with no one calling her out on it.

I certainly get annoyed when a trainer seems to get by on 'falling upwards' and having chance and plot armour make them look more competent and developed than they really are, but it felt like that was exactly what they were trying to AVOID with Iris and Dragonite. You don't see the anime actually call out undeserved wins that often.

Hell, I'm kinda glad they didn't do that arc with Ash instead, since with all the resetting he already suffered in BW, I don't think he deserved ANOTHER break the haughty arc. Iris was the more arrogant character and I think having development that put her hubris into question kept her more balanced, compared to Misty who was sidelined a lot so often got away with being a hypocrite towards Ash.

 

[Sham]

Misty caught a Gyarados in Chronicles not in the main series, Gyarados didn't give her her two biggest accomplishments of the series (beating her rival for the only time, beating the previous Pokégirl), Gyarados was never something people in the fandom wanted Ash to get, Misty came at a time before the fandom saw how well female characters could be written (May and Dawn), Misty didn't ever have a Water Pokémon who had a dream about fully evolving

That’s fine but.... he specifically said “she should of evolved a Dragon pokemon” and then went on to mention that it could of been Deino she evolved, so how much of that is concerning Axew’s ONE episode where he showed he wanted to evolve? Even referring back to that episode, evolving Axew doesn’t make or break her becoming a Dragon Master. As far as her two “biggest accomplishment”... yeah they weren’t hers. The anime purposely goes out of it’s way to point out that those weren’t legitimate wins through the voice of Georgia and that Iris didn’t earn them. I don’t get how people can be mad that Iris had “unfair” wins when that was the whole point and everyone including the writers knew this. Concerning Gyarados desirability, that’s honestly irrelevant because I find people hating Iris for something ASH didn’t get to be extremely childish.

Because misty came first, obviously thus nostalgia shield card is on play.

There lies the issue. “Nostalgia glasses” doesn’t excuse hypocrisy.

 

[Leonhart]

Because misty came first, obviously thus nostalgia shield card is on play.

Honestly, Kasumi's time in the series was so long ago that I find the idea that viewers apparently didn't have a problem with her lack of initiative rather strange. It's hard to prove that viewers gave her a pass back then when there aren't that many records of fan discussions from the OS era, and hardly anyone talks about her now since she's only appeared a few times since OS ended.

 

[Ubermuk]

The problem I have with people saying that Iris should of raised a Dragon pokemon and fully evolved one is where was this energy with Misty who had the same EXACT GOAL? Misty didn’t evolve a water Pokémon until we were well into Johto if memory serves me right and that was Politoed. So I don’t really understand where evolving Pokémon coloreates to being a type master. If you’re going to be mad that Iris caught a fully evolved Pokémon without “raising” another Dragon Pokémon be mad that Misty caught a Gyarados under the same circumstance.

Who says that it was okay for Misty to be lazy when it came to training her Pokemon? One of the biggest complaints that people had about her was that she didn't do a whole lot so it's not like people cut her some slack.

Also people just don't like Iris so maybe that's why they didn't like that she got Dragonite? I dunno it could be a lot of reasons combined.

 

[Power Up]

It depends on how interesting the character is and how interesting Ash is.

Unfortunately, both Go and Ash are incredibly boring characters in Journeys so really the question is irrelevant, at least regarding the current anime.

 

[Sham]

Who says that it was okay for Misty to be lazy when it came to training her Pokemon? One of the biggest complaints that people had about her was that she didn't do a whole lot so it's not like people cut her some slack.

Also people just don't like Iris so maybe that's why they didn't like that she got Dragonite? I dunno it could be a lot of reasons combined.

The conversation was about evolution and how that’s trying to be tied together with a type master goal. Maybe I just don’t care or pay attention that much but I’ve never seen a person complain about Misty not evolving her Pokémon before.

 

[SerenaRulez]

The thing was Iris capturing an elusive powerful Pokemon she didn't have the experience to control WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. It was meant to work as a break the haughty arc for her (which in fairness does work for a more arrogant archetype such as Iris) and realising she was more fallible than she thought and had to put in the real effort.

But even when Dragonite did not listen to Iris she was still winning battles with it left and right and I think that was what annoyed some people because it sent a bad message that you could still win alot even if your Pokemon doesn't like you.

 

[DatsRight]

But even when Dragonite did not listen to Iris she was still winning battles with it left and right and I think that was what annoyed some people because it sent a bad message that you could still win alot even if your Pokemon doesn't like you.

But wasn't that the whole point, that even in-universe her victories were being undermined because she wasn't achieving them through her own command or experience but just because Dragonite threw a convenient tantrum. Opponents outright told her she didn't earn her win against them. The message seemed to be "At what point is winning a real accomplishment?" If anything that's the sort of twist that works with a trainer getting a super powerful Pokemon, since it puts them on the spot to whether it offers them any credibility or they just got lucky.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

There lies the issue. “Nostalgia glasses” doesn’t excuse hypocrisy.

Never said it did, only coming up with one explanation.

And I think it's less about hipocrisy and more about refusing to accept both were similar in some regards and the later did something than the former

 

[Leonhart]

But wasn't that the whole point, that even in-universe her victories were being undermined because she wasn't achieving them through her own command or experience but just because Dragonite threw a convenient tantrum. Opponents outright told her she didn't earn her win against them. The message seemed to be "At what point is winning a real accomplishment?" If anything that's the sort of twist that works with a trainer getting a super powerful Pokemon, since it puts them on the spot to whether it offers them any credibility or they just got lucky.

I didn't like the message that the writers kept trying to pummel us over the head with back then, but I accepted that they were trying to make a point about Iris's lack of initiative when it came to Kairyu. Frankly, I often got the feeling that the writers might not have liked Iris very much since they gave her three Pokemon that experienced some type of disobedience problem at some point in time, and a Kibago who couldn't sit still for longer than three seconds.