Do you consider rivals almost as important as main cast members each series?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Alain just wanted to be the strongest, not the strongest Mega Evolution trainer. That was the whole point of his arc: constantly finding reasons to continue his pursuit of strength to the point it became toxic to him and all his relationships. It literally showed in the final battle with Ash where Ash has no problems with who wins or loses and Alain screams that he has to be the strongest no matter what.

So, yes, their goals do overlap and align, though I'd hardly call him the main rival of the series.

As for why he entered the League: Mega Evolution energy. He even says as much.

Are those his actual words in the XY special?I thought for sure he wanted to go around and challenge mega evolution trainers and become the strongest at that but whatever.I just became more convinced that he's more of a friend than a rival character.

 

[Epicocity]

Are those his actual words in the XY special?I thought for sure he wanted to go around and challenge mega evolution trainers and become the strongest at that but whatever.I just became more convinced that he's more of a friend than a rival character.

The specials he might say one thing, but as the specials and series progress Alain gets increasingly more obsessed with just being strong in general. I just wanted to clarify that particular point.

He is a rival in a sense, but I would definitely say he's not a rival in the sense of Sawyer. He's more a worthy opponent.

 

[J.Agera]

Their goals were completely different,one wanted to be a pokemon master and the other wanted to be the strongest mega evolution trainer,there's no conflict between the two at all and neither grow or develop off each other,Alain just came off as more of a league rival but with more screentime.Them being involved with TF doesn't change anything.May and Drew actually had a developing rivalry,had conflict and shared the same goal.

Alain really didn't need to show up in the main plot he was fine in those XY specials.Adding him in the main plotline was pretty much fanservice,there was no real reason for him to enter into the Kalos league because his goal isn't to become an elite four member or pokemon champion,they just brought him in as a roadblock to keep Ash from winning the league.Ash's second best rival will always be Gary and that more than likely won't ever change.The two have history with each other when they were younger.

They both shared the same goal,even though they didn't battle much they still had good interactions whenever they met and there was conflict along with comedy which is better than anything I seen between Ash/Alain.Lastly what makes Alain or Sawyer better rivals than Barry,Stephan,Morrison,Harrison,Tyson and Trip?

The world rivals has lots of definitions "a person with the same goal" is just one of them. "A person that equals other in quality" "a competitor in the same competition" etc.

Alain develops, without this rivalry he would feel no remorse in MES4. And MOST of all, without him the TF plot would never exist to begin with.

Adding him the main plot was necessary to advance to the TF arc, he was always intended to be added to the main series eventually.

Gary's rivalry was pretty atrocious in gen 1, as they had practically no conclusion to their buildup, that happened in Johto and even then it wasn't developed as well imo. Nevertheless, it was amazing to see it finally conclude at that time, but it didn't age well.

"Barry,Stephan,Morrison,Harrison,Tyson and Trip"
Barry was just a secondary gag rival who had some development losing to Paul i guess.
Stephan was pretty ok.
Morrision, Harrision and Tyson had the same problem as they were introduced at the last minute and they didn't manage to invest me in their rivalry as much.
Trip was just discount Paul and it was pretty annoying to see Ash be an underdog again.

Knowing Alain's story and character had me invested in his relationship with Ash, as for Sawyer, his rivalry was really well developed in the context he was the "Kouhai" well if you understand that.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

The world rivals has lots of definitions "a person with the same goal" is just one of them. "A person that equals other in quality" "a competitor in the same competition" etc.

Alain develops, without this rivalry he would feel no remorse in MES4. And MOST of all, without him the TF plot would never exist to begin with.

Adding him the main plot was necessary to advance to the TF arc, he was always intended to be added to the main series eventually.

So to sum this all up he wasn't really a rival.

Gary's rivalry was pretty atrocious in gen 1, as they had practically no conclusion to their buildup, that happened in Johto and even then it wasn't developed as well imo. Nevertheless, it was amazing to see it finally conclude at that time, but it didn't age well.

That's your opinion but I agree with it not being that well developed but it doesn't change the fact that Gary is Ash's second best rival due to obvious reasons.

"Barry,Stephan,Morrison,Harrison,Tyson and Trip"
Barry was just a secondary gag rival who had some development losing to Paul i guess.

K....

Stephan was pretty ok.

K....

Morrision, Harrision and Tyson had the same problem as they were introduced at the last minute and they didn't manage to invest me in their rivalry as much.

But Alain could easily be placed in this spot since he wasn't really a true rival like a Paul or a Drew,he was friends with Ash,battled a few times,then they battled again at the league,but Alain's goal was outside of the Kalos League.

Trip was just discount Paul and it was pretty annoying to see Ash be an underdog again.

But looking back their little banters were more amusing than anything Alain offered to Ash outside of battles.

Knowing Alain's story and character had me invested in his relationship with Ash, as for Sawyer, his rivalry was really well developed in the context he was the "Kouhai" well if you understand that.

Sawyer came off as more of a rival than Alain did because he wants to enter the league and one day become pokemon champion,even though he came off as more of a student he at least had the same goal as Ash.

 

[J.Agera]

So to sum this all up he wasn't really a rival.

That's your opinion but I agree with it not being that well developed but it doesn't change the fact that Gary is Ash's second best rival due to obvious reasons.

K....

K....

But Alain could easily be placed in this spot since he wasn't really a true rival like a Paul or a Drew,he was friends with Ash,battled a few times,then they battled again at the league,but Alain's goal was outside of the Kalos League.
But looking back their little banters were more amusing than anything Alain offered to Ash outside of battles.

Sawyer came off as more of a rival than Alain did because he wants to enter the league and one day become pokemon champion,even though he came off as more of a student he at least had the same goal as Ash.

I see where you are coming from but let's agree to disagree.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

To me personally, I love Alains character and yeah he was a rival to ash, but imo his rivalry with Ash was so poorly done and the criticism of the Kalos league is well deserved. They should have had Sawyer beat ash in the league after always losing to him before. It sucks tho that coz of the poor writing people hate Alain and forget his cool character or the ME specials.

 

[J.Agera]

To me personally, I love Alains character and yeah he was a rival to ash, but imo his rivalry with Ash was so poorly done and the criticism of the Kalos league is well deserved. They should have had Sawyer beat ash in the league after always losing to him before. It sucks tho that coz of the poor writing people hate Alain and forget his cool character or the ME specials.

Sawyer beating Ash would be nonsensical.
Alain's character is what made me invested in his short but great rivalry(imo).
If a character is already fleshed out, introducing him at the last second is not an issue when done right.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Sawyer beating Ash would be nonsensical.
Alain's character is what made me invested in his short but great rivalry(imo).
If a character is already fleshed out, introducing him at the last second is not an issue when done right.

Not really, in canon Sawyer had beat ash already once before but if they had written it in such a way that Sawyer had never won against ash but always lost, but always learning and strategizing against him and reaching the finals and facing him and winning in the end in a close match by his strategies, it would have been more satisfying than what we got, even if it still created rage. It would be better writing if Greninja loses to mega sceptile than mega Charizard blast burn for the third fricking time and it would have made their rivalry special as in the end Sawyer who looked up to ash was able to defeat him in the last battle, As opposed to ash always losing against Alain.

 

[J.Agera]

Not really, in canon Sawyer had beat ash already once before but if they had written it in such a way that Sawyer had never won against ash but always lost, but always learning and strategizing against him and reaching the finals and facing him and winning in the end in a close match by his strategies, it would have been more satisfying than what we got, even if it still created rage. It would be better writing if Greninja loses to mega sceptile than mega Charizard blast burn for the third fricking time and it would have made their rivalry special as in the end Sawyer who looked up to ash was able to defeat him in the last battle, As opposed to ash always losing against Alain.

But Sawyer was a rookie, Ash has the experience of 6 regions under his belt, it dosen't make any sense.
This was a "Kouhai" rivalry, Sawyer was always meant to lose and learn.
Ash only lost to Sawyer because of his overconfidence and obsession with the Greninja form which leads to his depression arc and not because of inferiority.
Alain was perfectly build up and him defeating Ash makes sense too.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

That Senior-Junior rivalry thing, how do you call Ash and Prof. Kukui rivalry then?

 

[Leonhart]

From my perspective, rivals aren't quite as important as the main cast, but some of my favorite characters from the anime overall have been rivals like Shigeru, Nozomi, and Shinji. I really wish that the anime would be more consistent with how it handles rival characters in recent sagas.

 

[keepitsimple]

of course they're not as important. If I had to choose I would easily take a shitty rival over a shitty companion

 

[TheWanderingMist]

With the exception of Gary, no.

 

[Ubermuk]

With the exception of Gary, no.

What makes Gary more important than rivals like Paul or Trip or Alain?

 

[TheWanderingMist]

What makes Gary more important than rivals like Paul or Trip or Alain?

I'll avoid talking about Paul for like the next two months but expect a rebuttal eventually.

They literally forgot about Trip halfway through Unova.

Alain basically just got to be too powerful. Ash should've beaten him at least once as losing 3 times made it kind of pointless, which is also why their 3rd match shouldn't have been the finals.

 

[Leonhart]

What makes Gary more important than rivals like Paul or Trip or Alain?

I think most people think highly of Shigeru based on his past with Satoshi since they knew each other since they were both young children, and Shigeru was Satoshi's first rival.

 

[Redstar45]

I think most people think highly of Shigeru based on his past with Satoshi since they knew each other since they were both young children, and Shigeru was Satoshi's first rival.

That and whole thing about Red vs Green from Pokemon rgby games

 

[Leonhart]

That and whole thing about Red vs Green from Pokemon rgby games

That too I suppose since the rivalry between Red and Green in the games is one of the more well-known rivalries in the whole franchise. But personally, I still felt that Satoshi's rivalry with Shinji had more of an impact in the anime than Satoshi's feud with Shigeru.

 

[SerenaRulez]

Rivals are great characters because they push the main characters to do better but some of them like Drew or Paul were almost like overconfident bullies so I didn't like them.

 

[Redstar45]

Rivals are great characters because they push the main characters to do better but some of them like Drew or Paul were almost like overconfident bullies so I didn't like them.

That isn't exactly new as games before xy show that side of rivals .