Do you consider the Alola league to be a “ real league? “

[Lunanight]

................................

What made you come to that conclusion?

When I say Kalos>Sinnoh, I'm moreso referring to the lesser trainers of those Leagues. Obviously Tobias>Alain and Paul>Sawyer, but Astrid as she was in Mega Evolution Special Act 1 (which is canon to the anime) already had a Mega Absol that was almost on-par with Alain's MC-X which, while much weaker than at the League, was still E4 level. Hawlucha had no business beating Mega Absol given how strong it was against Alain; the Ash vs Astrid battle was purely bad writing IMO. Remo's Mega Garchomp in the League was implied to be a bit stronger than Alain's base Charizard (who is slightly above E4 ace level), making Mega Garchomp slightly stronger than Tobias' Darkrai.

Mega Charizard X is stronger than any Pokemon in the Sinnoh League 1v1, albeit Tobias would beat Alain 6-3 or 6-4 assuming the rest of Tobias' team is as strong as Latios was. Even though I say Kalos was more challenging than Sinnoh, its only barely so. Without Mega Evolution, the most challenging League would be the Sinnoh League given Tobias>Alain, Paul>Sawyer, and that Astrid/Remo would still steamroll someone like Barry or Nando even without Mega Evolution, let alone weaker trainers like Conway.

As for the Dusclops point, its moreso that I put Dusclops on-par with Lucy's Milotic or just barely better. Even though Charizard mainly lost due to Ash's absurd mistake of using Seismic Toss, both Charizard and Dusclops seemed relatively equal before that happened. Even if Charizard was stronger than Dusclops (and it was), the power gap between them couldn't be that big given how evenly matched they seemed before Ash's mistake. Brandon's Regice/Registeel were obviously still slightly stronger than Dusclops even despite both being inexperienced and freshly caught Pokemon (and based on Pikachu's performance, Charizard would have also beat Regice).

I'm not one of those people who unironically thinks Dusclops was all that strong, but merely that Dusclops was at least on-par with Noland's Articuno or just slightly stronger given that Brandon was the strongest Frontier Brain. The writers could have had Charizard beat Dusclops, then lose to Ninjask/Solrock/Regice to being too exhausted to fight at full strength. If they wanted Pikachu to star against Regice, they could have just had Charizard lose to any of Brandon's Pokemon even if it beat Dusclops.

Long story short, I'd say that: Peak BF Charizard (vs Brandon) > Regice or Registeel > Early BF Charizard (vs Noland) > Dusclops = Noland's Articuno > Lucy's Milotic > Other Frontier Brain aces. Its obvious that Charizard would have won if Ash did use Seismic Toss. All I'm saying is that there is a minimum bar for how much weaker Dusclops could have been than Charizard, otherwise the battle would have ended with Charizard's win much earlier.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

When I say Kalos>Sinnoh, I'm moreso referring to the lesser trainers of those Leagues. Obviously Tobias>Alain and Paul>Sawyer, but Astrid as she was in Mega Evolution Special Act 1 (which is canon to the anime) already had a Mega Absol that was almost on-par with Alain's MC-X which, while much weaker than at the League, was still E4 level. Hawlucha had no business beating Mega Absol given how strong it was against Alain; the Ash vs Astrid battle was purely bad writing IMO. Remo's Mega Garchomp in the League was implied to be a bit stronger than Alain's base Charizard (who is slightly above E4 ace level), making Mega Garchomp slightly stronger than Tobias' Darkrai.

What you're talking about with Astrid and Remo is just purely power not skill,from a skill standpoint neither have a case over Conway or DP Ash.

As for the Dusclops point, its moreso that I put Dusclops on-par with Lucy's Milotic or just barely better. Even though Charizard mainly lost due to Ash's absurd mistake of using Seismic Toss, both Charizard and Dusclops seemed relatively equal before that happened. Even if Charizard was stronger than Dusclops (and it was), the power gap between them couldn't be that big given how evenly matched they seemed before Ash's mistake.

Yeah because they nerfed Charizard just to prop up Pikachu and give it the big W over Regice where it had no business defeating.Everything Charizard accomplished up to that point led to this and the writers decided to just screw it over.I'm supposed to believe the same Charizard that swept half of Gary's team at the Silver Conference inclding his ace Blastoise,going toe to toe with Harrison's Blaziken,outlasting an Aritcuno is now taking L's to a mere Dusclops?Pfffffffft.

The writers could have had Charizard beat Dusclops, then lose to Ninjask/Solrock/Regice to being too exhausted to fight at full strength.
If they wanted Pikachu to star against Regice, they could have just had Charizard lose to any of Brandon's Pokemon even if it beat Dusclops.

No the writers should have saved Charizard for last the same way they did when Ash was facing Gary and had no other options left on the table to defeat him.Charizard was his bailout card in tough situations like these and should never change as long as it kept training whether it's at charicific valley or on the ranch.I don't get why people don't get this concept at all the fact that Charizard did all the things it did in OS and early AG to being reduced to being a sacrificial lamb.It was disgraceful.

Brandon's Regice/Registeel were obviously still slightly stronger than Dusclops even despite both being inexperienced and freshly caught Pokemon (and based on Pikachu's performance, Charizard would have also beat Regice).

 

[Sham]

Just 'cause you put syrup on something doesn't make it pancakes (or waffles).

When the syrup has creative control and can do whatever it pleases, it does make it pancakes. I’m pretty sure the syrup doesn’t care weather or not people believe if it’s pancakes or not.

 

[AznKei]

Yes, because the producers made this, whether the fans like it or not.

 

[Power Up]

Yes, because the producers made this, whether the fans like it or not.

Do you consider Orange Islands to be a legitimate league as well?

 

[k6666]

its is real , this is the fisrt league ever happen in alola , it need advertisement so people can enjoy it , feel it if they need requirement taht only who fisnish 4 grand trial could enter only limited people that can join
and i doubt the first ever league in kanto ,johto , hoenn , sinnoh , unova and kalos need requirement ether

 

[AznKei]

Do you consider Orange Islands to be a legitimate league as well?

It still is, even though it doesn't exist in the games. For me who dislike Ash, I don't deny about some league winnings but his overall league record since OS is still mediocre and I'm just tired to follow his journey since the producers are going to keep him forever regardless of the outcomes.

 

[Lunanight]

What you're talking about with Astrid and Remo is just purely power not skill,from a skill standpoint neither have a case over Conway or DP Ash.

Skill-wise, Conway couldn't adapt to Ash's team that well. Yes, he had Trick Room, but his team was so weak that Trick Room was literally the only reason he didn't get swept 3-0 by one of Ash's weaker teams. I'd say Katie was more skilled than Conway since she had multiple strategies (Arena Trap, Destiny Bond, using Mimic to copy Quick Attack, repeated switching) whereas Conway's entire roster was slow Pokemon.

Its telling that Conway only managed to knock out two of Ash's Pokemon under Trick Room whereas without it, they got steamrolled, showing an inability to adapt to the opponent. Conway was an overrated trainer and was outclassed by Nando/Barry IMO.

I'm well aware that the Astrid/Remo is about power, and DP Ash is more skilled than them. Yet even from purely power, DP Ash was an overall stronger trainer than Astrid/Remo using the same team he used against Tobias. Even if Mega Absol/Garchomp were E4 Base Ace level, their other five Pokemon each were far weaker than their base main Pokemon, and DP Ash would win 6-4 or even 6-3 using the team he used against Tobias. Sceptile would massively weaken Mega Garchomp enough for Pikachu to get the win, then Pikachu and Swellow (and maybe Heracross too) would beat the remaining five Pokemon. Torkoal and Gible wouldn't even be needed whatsoever.

Yeah because they nerfed Charizard just to prop up Pikachu and give it the big W over Regice where it had no business defeating.Everything Charizard accomplished up to that point led to this and the writers decided to just screw it over.I'm supposed to believe the same Charizard that swept half of Gary's team at the Silver Conference inclding his ace Blastoise,going toe to toe with Harrison's Blaziken,outlasting an Aritcuno is now taking L's to a mere Dusclops?Pfffffffft.

To be fair, I never got the impression that Gary's team aside from Blastoise were notably strong. I'd argue the fight against Blaziken was far better at showing how strong Charizard was. It proved Charizard was the second-strongest Pokemon in the Johto League and easily Ash's strongest Pokemon at the time. It also shows that Ash was the second-best trainer in the Johto League given that Jon Dickson only won 6-5 despite Harrison not using his strongest Pokemon (suggesting Ash would have beat Jon Dickson 6-4 or even 6-3).

Noland's Articuno would have also swept half of Gary's team and would have beaten Harrison's Blaziken. I still think Charizard should have won that battle against Dusclops; all I'm saying is that even if Charizard had won, it wouldn't be an easy win. Brandon was the strongest Frontier Brain in-universe, so his regular non-Legendary Pokemon would likely be at least as strong (if not a bit stronger) than the Pokemon used by other Frontier Brains. Even if Articuno was stronger than Dusclops, it wasn't that much stronger since it wouldn't make much sense for Articuno to be that much stronger than Dusclops from a narrative perspective.

Experience doesn't equate to strength. Case in point: Paul's Ursaring, which he caught at the start of DP, is stronger than Honchkrow and Weavile despite both of them confirmed in the Cynthia battle to have been used in past leagues by Paul. Even Paul's Drapion, which was probably caught in the latter half of DP, is stronger than Ursaring. The fact that Regice was still tied for Brandon's second-strongest Pokemon alongside Registeel despite their complete lack of experience shows how strong even an untrained legendary Pokemon can be when commanded by a Frontier Brain... and Charizard would have still beat Regice/Registeel despite that.

No the writers should have saved Charizard for last the same way they did when Ash was facing Gary and had no other options left on the table to defeat him.Charizard was his bailout card in tough situations like these and should never change as long as it kept training whether it's at charicific valley or on the ranch.I don't get why people don't get this concept at all the fact that Charizard did all the things it did in OS and early AG to being reduced to being a sacrificial lamb.It was disgraceful.

Ash's reliance on Charizard early on was because Ash didn't have many strong powerhouses like he does now (i.e. Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja, etc). The second-best thing that Ash had to having Charizard back in OS was using Snorlax (who is very underrated since IIRC, it beat 2 of Gary and Harrison's Pokemon each), but the decline in Charizard's usage actually shows growth for Ash as a trainer since he isn't purely using Charizard as a crutch.

The Ash vs Paul League battle wouldn't have been as good if Ash used Charizard instead of Infernape, for instance. Relying on one Pokemon as a crutch is something that beginner trainers (e.g. OS Ash, Barry, Trip, Bianca, Sawyer) do with their starter Pokemon in their first league. This is why Infernape and Greninja were often criticized during DP/XY for stealing away screentime and battles from Ash's other Pokemon on his regional team, and Pikachu got this same criticism at times (like in the Alain league battle).

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Skill-wise, Conway couldn't adapt to Ash's team that well. Yes, he had Trick Room, but his team was so weak that Trick Room was literally the only reason he didn't get swept 3-0 by one of Ash's weaker teams. I'd say Katie was more skilled than Conway since she had multiple strategies (Arena Trap, Destiny Bond, using Mimic to copy Quick Attack, repeated switching) whereas Conway's entire roster was slow Pokemon.

Katie had multiple strategies but some of that had to do with the fact that she had 3 more pokemon at her disposal and was able to do a full battle with Ash,she had all those strategies but still lost.Conway was only able to battle Ash using only 3 of his pokemon and he didn't get to use his Slowking,Heracross and Aggron.If he did I'm pretty sure he would have had a more impressive showing than Katie.

Its telling that Conway only managed to knock out two of Ash's Pokemon under Trick Room whereas without it, they got steamrolled, showing an inability to adapt to the opponent. Conway was an overrated trainer and was outclassed by Nando/Barry IMO.

Nando never outclassed Conway and Barry are you f*ckin kidding me?

To be fair, I never got the impression that Gary's team aside from Blastoise were notably strong. I'd argue the fight against Blaziken was far better at showing how strong Charizard was. It proved Charizard was the second-strongest Pokemon in the Johto League and easily Ash's strongest Pokemon at the time. It also shows that Ash was the second-best trainer in the Johto League given that Jon Dickson only won 6-5 despite Harrison not using his strongest Pokemon (suggesting Ash would have beat Jon Dickson 6-4 or even 6-3).

Charizard did all this without a reliance on an ability,Infernape would need Blaze to take out 2 of Gary's pokemon along with Blastoise and to defeat Harrison's Blaziken.Same thing with Sceptile.

Experience doesn't equate to strength. Case in point: Paul's Ursaring, which he caught at the start of DP, is stronger than Honchkrow and Weavile despite both of them confirmed in the Cynthia battle to have been used in past leagues by Paul. Even Paul's Drapion, which was probably caught in the latter half of DP, is stronger than Ursaring.

Oh let me guess you also have Electivire over Torterra as well am I right?And it's not like Honchkrow was already fully evolved when it was first introduced it was still a Murkrow.Weavile have never been known for being powerful in the anime just more so for their speed and agility.

The fact that Regice was still tied for Brandon's second-strongest Pokemon alongside Registeel despite their complete lack of experience shows how strong even an untrained legendary Pokemon can be when commanded by a Frontier Brain... and Charizard would have still beat Regice/Registeel despite that.

Untrained or not they were clearly his strongest on paper and from eyetest,not sure what you were watching.Charizard getting nerfed and being a sacrificial lamb to a Dusclops doesn't equate to it being Brandon's strongest over Regirock,Registeel,Regice.If the roles were reversed for Ninjask/Solrock and Dusclops you'd be saying the same thing and it would still be flat out ridiculous.

Ash's reliance on Charizard early on was because Ash didn't have many strong powerhouses like he does now (i.e. Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja, etc). The second-best thing that Ash had to having Charizard back in OS was using Snorlax (who is very underrated since IIRC, it beat 2 of Gary and Harrison's Pokemon each), but the decline in Charizard's usage actually shows growth for Ash as a trainer since he isn't purely using Charizard as a crutch.

Well no sh*t?

The Ash vs Paul League battle wouldn't have been as good if Ash used Charizard instead of Infernape, for instance. Relying on one Pokemon as a crutch is something that beginner trainers (e.g. OS Ash, Barry, Trip, Bianca, Sawyer) do with their starter Pokemon in their first league. This is why Infernape and Greninja were often criticized during DP/XY for stealing away screentime and battles from Ash's other Pokemon on his regional team, and Pikachu got this same criticism at times (like in the Alain league battle).

It wouldn't have made sense for Ash to use his Charizard or any of his other reserves against Paul since he wanted to prove that he could win using the same team he used against him at Lake Acuity.But he could have had Charizard up against Tobias just for the hell of it since he knew prior to facing him.He could have also used Charizard at the Unova League but didn't.

 

[HoundoomFan]

I’d write it about as important as OI league & battle frontier league. As in, if ash wins it, he has... something to brag about the beginning of the next series, but then it’s never mentioned again.

But since the anime mentions it as a league, it is a true league. Obviously just not as big or important as the previous leagues ash has entered, as the people in Alola aren’t battle focused, doesn’t have you battle a elite 4, nor does being a Alola champion let you be in the champion league.

 

[Lunanight]

Charizard did all this without a reliance on an ability,Infernape would need Blaze to take out 2 of Gary's pokemon along with Blastoise and to defeat Harrison's Blaziken.Same thing with Sceptile.

You must be overrating Gary and Harrison if you think Infernape without Blaze couldn't have done to them what Charizard did. Even prior to activating Blaze, Infernape was holding its own with Motor Drive Electivire after having defeating Aggron and Ninjask prior, and still being poisoned from Toxic Spikes. Without Motor Drive, Electivire wouldn't be fast enough to keep up with Infernape and would have lost before Blaze could even activate.

I'd say that: Torterra > Blaze Infernape > Motor Drive Electivire > Infernape > Electivire > Harrison's Blaziken > Gary's 3 swept Pokemon. Given how strong Paul's Torterra was even at Lake Acuity and it being his strongest Pokemon, and having gotten even stronger by the Sinnoh League, there is no way in hell Infernape could beat Torterra even with Blaze.

Oh let me guess you also have Electivire over Torterra as well am I right?

Not really, given Torterra by the Sinnoh League should be stronger than Electivire. Torterra is obviously intended to be Paul's strongest Pokemon. It mastered Stone Edge control before Lake Acuity, and very likely mastered Frenzy Plant control by the time of the Sinnoh League. I'd even say Torterra is significantly stronger than Electivire, and even underrated.

Torterra is stronger than any of Ash's base form Pokemon 1-on-1 aside from Charizard and maybe Sceptile (I'd say Torterra and Ash's Sceptile are equally strong). Pikachu can't do anything even at its very strongest because Torterra is immune to Electric moves, Infernape would lose with Blaze and get stomped without it, base Greninja gets curbstomped even faster by Giga Drain/Frenzy Plant, and the rest of Ash's Pokemon are too weak to even stand a chance.

Untrained or not they were clearly his strongest on paper and from eyetest,not sure what you were watching.Charizard getting nerfed and being a sacrificial lamb to a Dusclops doesn't equate to it being Brandon's strongest over Regirock,Registeel,Regice.

When did I ever claim that? I never once claimed that. Regirock is obviously Brandon's strongest Pokemon by an absurd landslide, and I already said that not only were Regice/Registeel were each stronger than Dusclops, but that Charizard was stronger as well.

The only real disagreement we seem to have is how Dusclops compares with Noland's Articuno. At the very least, Brandon's three non-legendaries are stronger than most of the other Frontier Brain Pokemon we've seen (mainly Tucker and Greta's Pokemon, Lucy's Seviper, and Anabel's Alakazam and Metagross).

Also, I'd say Ash was nerfed much moreso than Charizard was. It makes no sense for Ash to use Seismic Toss since he also had Pikachu use Quick Attack on Agatha's Gengar, meaning he made the same stupid mistake twice in the same season. Ash vs Brandon round 3 was probably the worst of the Frontier Brain battles, aside from the Anabel rematch which was just made Ash look incompetent.

The fact that Bulbasaur could even drain its HP four times with Leech Seed suggests it had a decent amount of HP left. Although that was only the case because both Ash and Charizard was nerfed, and Charizard would have won if it weren't for said nerfing. I'd say that: Regirock > Regice = Registeel > Dusclops > Solrock > Ninjask.

 

[Aduro]

I think it would be a "real" league victory. The strongest trainers in the region besides the Kahunas and Kukui competed, so the winner should be just behind the top 5. And Ash and Gladion have beaten a couple of reasonably strong trainers along the way in Guzma and Kiawe. But it doesn't feel as impressive as winning against a streak of strong opponent like they had to in the other leagues.

I mean consider how far Jessie and James got. Can you really see them getting through someone like Clarke or Katie from the Hoenn league? Or Gary or Tierno? The Battle Royal section was quite unfair, with the tournament favourite, Ilima being sabotaged by sheer numbers and Ash's group getting through easily by covering each other. If Ash had won the Johto league because somebody else had injured Harrison's blaziken, it would have rung a little hollow.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

You must be overrating Gary and Harrison if you think Infernape without Blaze couldn't have done to them what Charizard did. Even prior to activating Blaze, Infernape was holding its own with Motor Drive Electivire after having defeating Aggron and Ninjask prior, and still being poisoned from Toxic Spikes. Without Motor Drive, Electivire wouldn't be fast enough to keep up with Infernape and would have lost before Blaze could even activate.

I'd say at best Infernape would draw in the Gary/Harrison battles if Blaze doesn't exist but okay.

 

[mehmeh1]

TBH, if he manages to beat both Gladion and Kukui, I'd consider it as a real win, the former has shown to be a high caliber battler, while the latter is the equivalent of Alola's Champion (though he's probably more around E4 tier)

 

[janejane6178]

No, I dont consider it a real league, since brats who barely battle like Lillie and that electric boy (forgot its name) who have 1-2 Pokemon overall participate in it. Not to mention there are not 6v6. Its a joke in my opinion. If they end Ash story with this abomination, then its really sad

 

[PokemonKnight]

It is real, as in officially sanctioned, but the quality and depth isn't there.

One-hit wonder trainers with Z-moves does not a good league make.

 

[345ash-greninja]

I'd say that: Torterra > Blaze Infernape > Motor Drive Electivire > Infernape > Electivire > Harrison's Blaziken > Gary's 3 swept Pokemon. Given how strong Paul's Torterra was even at Lake Acuity and it being his strongest Pokemon, and having gotten even stronger by the Sinnoh League, there is no way in hell Infernape could beat Torterra even with Blaze.

Not really, given Torterra by the Sinnoh League should be stronger than Electivire. Torterra is obviously intended to be Paul's strongest Pokemon. It mastered Stone Edge control before Lake Acuity, and very likely mastered Frenzy Plant control by the time of the Sinnoh League. I'd even say Torterra is significantly stronger than Electivire, and even underrated.

Based on what? Where was it stated that Torterra was Paul's strongest? It was stated to be his starter, never once was it stated to be Paul's strongest so IDK what you're talking about. It was very likely Paul's strongest at the start of Sinnoh but that doesn't at all mean that it was remained that way at the end of Sinnoh, considering Electivire clearly was portrayed as Paul's ace in the Sinnoh League.

You mean that Torterra, which got rekt by Cynthia's Garchomp harder that Iris's Axew, who only beat some nobody's Farfetch'd and Brock's Croagunk (that too after taking a solid painful hit from the latter), struggled a ton again pre-training Gliscor, taking heavy damage from it which made it pant, is apparently supposed to be stronger that the Electivire who was portrayed as an absolute beast in the League ---------> destroyed a fairly strong Pokemon in Barry's Empoleon (presumably mid-high tier 2) without taking any damage whatsoever, took out 2 Pokemon of Ash's in Gliscor & Pikachu before pushing Ash's Infernape almost to the brink of losing, nearly almost winning before hax Blaze activated and turned things around the other way? Yeah, not buying it.

Sure you will say now that Gliscor was heavily damaged so it was pretty much an easy revenge KO for Electivire there, but reminder that Electivire blocked Gliscor's Giga Impact with its freaking bare hands, which shows that Electivire was genuinely in a complete different League from Gliscor.

Against Pikachu, Electivire still won in the end whilst taking too damage, in this case, Pikachu was significantly damaged before compared to Electivire, but the very convincing nature of Electivire's win + even after facing Pikachu, Electivire still went toe to toe with Ash's Infernape and nearly defeated it shows that Electivire was just better than Pikachu in that battle.

Against Infernape, Electivire had the health advantage having taken less damage compared to Infernape, but then again Electivire would have won very convincingly if not for Blaze activating. Infernape looked down and almost out when Electivire was standing strong, with things looking set for a decisive win for Paul & Electivire, before.....OP Blaze activated, helping Infernape to turn things the other way around.

Given all these feats Electivire displayed, going along with the several other impressive feats it already displayed already before as an Elekid and Electabuzz, I don't see how it's reasonable to say that Torterra is stronger than Electivire, much less Blaze Infernape.

Narratively it also makes sense that Electivire was Paul's strongest during the time of the Sinnoh League, since Electivire was portrayed as Paul ace throughout the Sinnoh League, in both the battles with Barry and Ash. And in Ash and Paul rivalry climax battle, Electivire was Paul's ace, being his last and final Pokemon in that epic rivalry climax battle which was narratively an enormously significant battle. It's makes a lot more sense narratively that Ash's defeated Paul via defeating his strongest Pokemon in his rivalry climax battle with rather than "Ash was only able to win because didn't use his strongest Pokemon in that battle". Ash being able to beat Paul at his best would be narratively a lot more fitting from a rivalry standpoint.

Like you pointed out in one of your previous posts, more experience =/= stronger. Paul's Ursaring was less experienced that his Weavile/Honchkrow, but as we all know, Ursaring is definitely stronger by its feats. Likewise, Paul's Torterra being his starter and more experienced doesn't make it stronger than Electivire whatsoever, especially when Electivire during the entire Sinnoh League was portrayed as Paul's ace Pokemon and displayed feats far superior power scaling wise than Torterra.

I mean, even using a straightforward comparison -------> Torterra struggled against pre-training Gliscor (which was pretty average) and took a lot of damage, which Electivire totally destroyed Barry's Empoleon, a stronger Pokemon than pre-training Gliscor with much less difficulty. It should be pretty clear from here as for who is the stronger Pokemon, man. Paul's Electivire is a beast and holds the strongest claim of being Paul's strongest going by its pure feats.

I don't see how this topic is relevant to the actual topic of the thread, but since this was brought up here, I just gave my two cents on the matter, that's all.

 

[Bortgreen]

TBH, if he manages to beat both Gladion and Kukui, I'd consider it as a real win, the former has shown to be a high caliber battler, while the latter is the equivalent of Alola's Champion (though he's probably more around E4 tier)

Well, Kukui is basically THE CHAMPION in the games...
I don't think Ash might win though, he always loses a match in the end(be it in the league or the Gary defeats after OI and BF)

 

[PokemonKnight]

Look at the NFL's history. It started in the 1920s and it took a decade for the league to begin to resemble its current form.

Give the Alola League a couple of years and it will resemble one of the established leagues. Unfortunately, we will never see the progress.

 

[Bortgreen]

Look at the NFL's history. It started in the 1920s and it took a decade for the league to begin to resemble its current form.

Give the Alola League a couple of years and it will resemble one of the established leagues. Unfortunately, we will never see the progress.

Well, we might still see at least a bit of progress in Gen 8 anime since it will feature all regions