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Do you enjoy the direction Pokemon Sun and Moon anime is moving in?

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Since XY there's been a more 'gentle touch' approach to the girls. As in we rarely see them put through the wringer, they're usually only in events they win and usually very easily, and there's a real downplay of their flawed side compared to previous girls (or a lean more towards "positive" flaws like underestimating their own potential) and I think that really downplays their ability to gain character agency. A character that's never out of their comfort zone never really grows.

Yeah Misty and Iris weren't brilliantly handled arc wise either, but I think the reason they stuck out a little better to some is that they had blatant flaws and shortcomings, things to improve upon that held them back. They were allowed to be "losers" sometimes and go through trial and error, and that bulks up their approach and dynamic, while XY-SM the girls pretty much go straight up to winning or being plot armoured through all the gritty stuff and most of their roles with the others equate to being straight men.

Lillie's been the nearest to an aversion, but even then you can kinda see signs of them struggling not to faze her out right now compared to the boys, usually only giving her centre stage now when it's her time to be good at something. She is at least game to the slapstick and foible-driven humour however.
 
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Remix2

Well-Known Member
Anyone think the writers are focusing more on Lana than Lillie now? You ever notice that for all of 2018's episodes, the only ep that focused on Lillie progress wise was that Alolan Sandslash ep where she got the Z crystal? She had some role in fillers and such, but other than that, 2018 had like one Lillie focus ep...lol

Lana seems to be getting more focus now, I think the writers shifted which girl they want to focus on.
Not really since she didn’t have any focus episodes this year, and the last year of sm will most likely be all ash focus while Lana’s and the rest will get little to no focus.
 

mehmeh1

SOBA MASK
Anyone think the writers are focusing more on Lana than Lillie now? You ever notice that for all of 2018's episodes, the only ep that focused on Lillie progress wise was that Alolan Sandslash ep where she got the Z crystal? She had some role in fillers and such, but other than that, 2018 had like one Lillie focus ep...lol

Lana seems to be getting more focus now, I think the writers shifted which girl they want to focus on.
and what has lana gotten in terms of progress this year? A tease of dewpider and a backstory episode?
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
a problem, again, with this direction in terms of cast is they simply can't seem to figure out how to develop all of the characters on the main cast to evolve their characters.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Well, she was trying to figure out what goal she wanted. There was some focus on her in that one rhyhorn episode, and during the summer camp as well. Makes sense it took her that long to actually decide what would happen.
Well, yeah. I got it. Serena's character was about discovering dreams and I liked the idea. The problem is: they handled this terribly. They should have made episodes about Serena searching for her dream, trying some things, moments of her worried about it(aside from XY006 and XY008), focused on her as a trainer too( first battle and such). They should have made things sooner too, with camp arc in XY030-033, Pancham's capture in XY038, first showcase in XY045 and first key in XY57. Some more pokémon too.
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
Yeah, that's true. I was kind of disappointed that we didn't get to see serena catch more pokemon to have more diverse combinations rather than with playing with fire and all. I could have seen her catching a clawitzer or something
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It's amusing that Ash currently does the 'try new pastimes/hobbies' premise better than Serena, largely because Ash is allowed to fail miserably at many of them or at least put a funny method to them that gives him personality. Serena just went through all her faux agendas normally and then....didn't choose them for whatever reason, no wonder they didn't do more of them since it would have gotten boring quick.

I feel like her being a performer could have also played into her having good reflexes or a cool choreographed battle style that could have helped her breathe life into the fillers, but alas Serena wasn't allowed to be any developed battles or dilemmas either.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's true. I was kind of disappointed that we didn't get to see serena catch more pokemon to have more diverse combinations rather than with playing with fire and all. I could have seen her catching a clawitzer or something
Yeah, I would give her a Mudkip or Meowstic. You know, she could have more diverse combination if her pokemon had learned new moves. Now that I think about it, Pancham doesn't learned no move isn't? No character development too.
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
well, there was that one fanfic where I think she does get one...but then again, that one was about serena becoming a gym battler and not a performer. in that one, she and ash become immortal due to the curse of xerneas....and their rivalry becomes a mess after Serena becomes WAY TOO OP because Ash fell into a coma and she trained. a lot. She basically made Ash look like a rookie when he isn't - which just pisses me off as it's basically a DEM by that author to make Serena look like a "worthy" rival of his when she really isn't as it's just a plot device.

ok now I'm getting off topic, so...Pancham didn't get any. yeah, this is true - an oversight by the writers.
 

AznKei

Scary 16th note crossovers @ 190BPM! X_X
well, there was that one fanfic where I think she does get one...but then again, that one was about serena becoming a gym battler and not a performer. in that one, she and ash become immortal due to the curse of xerneas....and their rivalry becomes a mess after Serena becomes WAY TOO OP because Ash fell into a coma and she trained. a lot. She basically made Ash look like a rookie when he isn't - which just pisses me off as it's basically a DEM by that author to make Serena look like a "worthy" rival of his when she really isn't as it's just a plot device.

ok now I'm getting off topic, so...Pancham didn't get any. yeah, this is true - an oversight by the writers.
I liked when people makes fanfics like that, as I did mine too. Sure, it's not canon but it's interesting to see if the creative fans can make herself and her professional goals deep & interesting, like challenging themselves when the producers/writers aren't capable to do these.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I liked when people makes fanfics like that, as I did mine too. Sure, it's not canon but it's interesting to see if the creative fans can make herself and her professional goals interesting, like challenging themselves when the producers/writers aren't capable to do these.
That really just sounds like an empowerment fanfic, which the series was already halfway in doing that (eg. having Serena lose or struggle at as little as possible but still keeping her unremarkable enough that she didn't end up a sue, while that just skips the formalities and makes her better than the main character utterly in his own turf).
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
It's amusing that Ash currently does the 'try new pastimes/hobbies' premise better than Serena, largely because Ash is allowed to fail miserably at many of them or at least put a funny method to them that gives him personality. Serena just went through all her faux agendas normally and then....didn't choose them for whatever reason, no wonder they didn't do more of them since it would have gotten boring quick.

I feel like her being a performer could have also played into her having good reflexes or a cool choreographed battle style that could have helped her breathe life into the fillers, but alas Serena wasn't allowed to be any developed battles or dilemmas either.
That was exactly the point of her character arc though. She gave up on things as soon as she started them because she wasn't able to commit herself to something, her mother said it herself.

Let's not act like she didn't have flaws, because she did have them and the show clearly treated them as such. It just happened that the focus this time wasn't so much related to the technicalities of being a performer, but rather on the personality flaws of the character itself.

They just choose a different approach from the one they used with Dawn, choosing not to focus so much on the character's career fails again.

You might complain about how good she was at performing, but the thing about performances is that they are almost entirely subjective and the fact that you didn't see flaws on her performances doesn't mean others didn't. It is not like a battle oriented goal or goals like contests where the participants are given a score.
You might not like it that way but it is exactly what made this goal different from the others and if they were to repeat themselves, then why even create a new goal?
Well, yeah. I got it. Serena's character was about discovering dreams and I liked the idea. The problem is: they handled this terribly. They should have made episodes about Serena searching for her dream, trying some things, moments of her worried about it(aside from XY006 and XY008), focused on her as a trainer too( first battle and such). They should have made things sooner too, with camp arc in XY030-033, Pancham's capture in XY038, first showcase in XY045 and first key in XY57. Some more pokémon too.
But she did try several activities before choosing a goal. She did try pokevision, pokepuff contests, battles, rhyhorn racing. It was mostly for fun (aside from rhyhorn racing), but even when you are doing something for fun, you are learning something out of it. That is why Ash said to Serena on the camp arc that her entire journey so far wasn't pointless and that it helped her to discover more about herself and the things she liked.

Many people skip these episodes thinking they are complete fillers but they are quite important for you to get a better grasp of this character.

I honestly found it quite biased how some people here criticize some directions they went for this character and yet the same people praise Lillie despite them doing the same thing with her, but worse. I mean, she still only has one pokemon, she still isn't so sure about what she wants for her future and she still haven't really made all that much progress on her goal if she truly intends to become a trainer. And we are close to the end of the series.
Besides most of her development also revolved around her personal flaws (like the fear of touching pokémon) and not her career fails.

Regarding the amount of pokemon she has, i find 3 pokemon a fine amount of pokemon to have, especially if they are all involved with the characters' goal and that character is a performer, since they don't really need a full team and the more pokemon you have, after obtaining at least 3, the less the other are going to appear in the performances. Besides 2/3 of her team evolved which makes it even less stale. I really enjoyed Eevee/Sylveon's development and the interactions between braixen, pancham and serena and how they grew together as a team and bonded a lot together aswell.
 
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Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
That was exactly the point of her character arc though. She gave up on things as soon as she started them because she wasn't able to commit herself to something, her mother said it herself.

Let's not act like she didn't have flaws, because she did have them and the show clearly treated them as such. It just happened that the focus this time wasn't so much related to the technicalities of being a performer, but rather on the personality flaws of the character itself.

They just choose a different approach from the one they used with Dawn, choosing not to focus so much on the character's career fails again.

You might complain about how good she was at performing, but the thing about performances is that they are almost entirely subjective and the fact that you didn't see flaws on her performances doesn't mean others didn't. It is not like a battle oriented goal or goals like contests where the participants are given a score.
You might not like it that way but it is exactly what made this goal different from the others and if they were to repeat themselves, the why even create a new goal?

But she did try several activities before choosing a goal. She did try pokevision, pokepuff contests, battles, rhyhorn racing. It was mostly for fun (aside from rhyhorn racing), but even when you are doing something for fun, you are learning something out of it. That is why Ash said to Serena on the camp arc that her entire journey so far wasn't pointless and that it helped her to discover more about herself and the things she liked.

Many people skip these episodes thinking they are complete fillers but they are quite important for you to get a better grasp of this character.

I honestly found it quite biased how some people here criticize some directions they went for this character and yet the same people praise Lillie despite them doing the same thing with her, but worse. I mean, she still only has one pokemon, she still isn't so sure about what she wants for her future and she still haven't really made all that much progress on her goal if she truly intends to become a trainer. And we are close to the end of the series.
Besides most of her development also revolved around her personal flaws (like the fear of touching pokémon) and not her career fails.

I honestly find 3 pokemon a fine amount of pokemon to have, especially if they are all involved with the characters' goal and that character is a performer, since they don't really need a full team and the more pokemon you have, after obtaining at least 3, the less the other are going to appear in the performances. Besides 2/3 of her team evolved which makes it even less stale. I really enjoyed Eevee/Sylveon's development and the interactions between braixen, pancham and serena and how they grew together as a team and bonded a lot together aswell.
Serana is 10x better than Lillie and rest of Pokemon girls in the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime .
 

Hammad80

Active Member
Discussing Illegal Content
Btw, I thought it would be nice to bring this: -link removed-
For all the people revering SM as a likeable season and calling people who don’t like it a minority, look at the ratings (1,000-1,500 votes)

Yes, it’s a YT video, but why am I including this?
Simply because it is a legit model of how people perceived it. This video was released close to the time when the SM trailer was announced. In this video, it just shows only the trailer 100% as it is (so there’s no bias to whether it would draw critics to the video). The YT’er itself is not disliked, and the video itself has no technical flaws either.
Second, generally, YT likes/dislikes are more reliable when it comes to non-biased videos like these.

Plus, note that it is by some random YT’er and not the Pokémon company or something, so ofcourse it can be assumed that more people may have actually not liked the trailer but still liked the video, as the video creator did his job of showing the trailer perfectly.
 
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Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Btw, I thought it would be nice to bring this: -link removed-
For all the people revering SM as a likeable season and calling people who don’t like it a minority, look at the ratings (1,000-1,500 votes)

Yes, it’s a YT video, but why am I including this?
Simply because it is a legit model of how people perceived it. This video was released close to the time when the SM trailer was announced. In this video, it just shows only the trailer 100% as it is (so there’s no bias to whether it would draw critics to the video). The YT’er itself is not disliked, and the video itself has no technical flaws either.
Second, generally, YT likes/dislikes are more reliable when it comes to non-biased videos like these.

Plus, note that it is by some random YT’er and not the Pokémon company or something, so ofcourse it can be assumed that more people may have actually not liked the trailer but still liked the video, as the video creator did his job of showing the trailer perfectly.
Dude try use actual rate data from Japan.......it is was good and lot (not that many fans by way ) fans seem to like it .....and i am a guy hate whole thing about the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime too but i am okay with fan like it
And yes there few Japanese pokéAni fan still love xyz era too like us (mostly SatoxSerna )
 
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Kintaro

Banned
To be fair the early SM eps were coming off of XY, people hated Ash's SM design at first.

SM found it's footing after the initial 20ish eps. Granted there's still boring eps from time to time and some of the big arcs aren't handled well, but I don't think it's been bad and it has it's enjoyable eps.
 
For all the people revering SM as a likeable season and calling people who don’t like it a minority, look at the ratings (1,000-1,500 votes)

Yes, it’s a YT video, but why am I including this?
Simply because it is a legit model of how people perceived it. This video was released close to the time when the SM trailer was announced. In this video, it just shows only the trailer 100% as it is (so there’s no bias to whether it would draw critics to the video). The YT’er itself is not disliked, and the video itself has no technical flaws either.
Second, generally, YT likes/dislikes are more reliable when it comes to non-biased videos like these.

Plus, note that it is by some random YT’er and not the Pokémon company or something, so ofcourse it can be assumed that more people may have actually not liked the trailer but still liked the video, as the video creator did his job of showing the trailer perfectly.
Well, I'm convinced. Who knew all it would take is the like/dislike bar of a three year old Youtube video?

No, seriously, what are you trying to prove with this? It's like you don't even realise that trends change and people can change their minds or something.

I was there when the show was announced. I know all about the discontent and the myths that spread like wildfire before informed and intelligent people could debunk them. I know how several people didn't even give the show the chance purely on the premise and how it looked.

But times have changed. The myths were debunked, people gave the show a chance and actually liked it, and a lot of the discontent has quieted. Because chances are, anyone who doesn't like the show isn't watching it and doing something else with their lives and not digging up old Youtube videos to prove that people dislike it.

"For all the people revering SM as a likeable season". How about letting people who like the season just like it?
 

AznKei

Scary 16th note crossovers @ 190BPM! X_X
Btw, I thought it would be nice to bring this: -link removed-
For all the people revering SM as a likeable season and calling people who don’t like it a minority, look at the ratings (1,000-1,500 votes)

Yes, it’s a YT video, but why am I including this?
Simply because it is a legit model of how people perceived it. This video was released close to the time when the SM trailer was announced. In this video, it just shows only the trailer 100% as it is (so there’s no bias to whether it would draw critics to the video). The YT’er itself is not disliked, and the video itself has no technical flaws either.
Second, generally, YT likes/dislikes are more reliable when it comes to non-biased videos like these.

Plus, note that it is by some random YT’er and not the Pokémon company or something, so ofcourse it can be assumed that more people may have actually not liked the trailer but still liked the video, as the video creator did his job of showing the trailer perfectly.
The fans there can spew hate whatever they want but they won't change the minds of the anime producers/writers as the series and the anime in general is making profits regardless of the quality, even the Kalos League outcome hate didn't stop them, by renewing with the new fans.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
If Lana gets a meaningful arc with Eevee I might bulk up SM's rate to only one truly badly written companion (meaning SIX protagonists with reasonable handling). They've already rectified her 'bland Pokemon' issue within the course of one episode.

I'm almost hoping now that Gen 8 gets delayed and we get four seasons after all, it's irritating they've made more breakthroughs near the end after such a long lull where barely anyone was doing anything.
 
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Jeal

Well-Known Member
But she did try several activities before choosing a goal. She did try pokevision, pokepuff contests, battles, rhyhorn racing. It was mostly for fun (aside from rhyhorn racing), but even when you are doing something for fun, you are learning something out of it. That is why Ash said to Serena on the camp arc that her entire journey so far wasn't pointless and that it helped her to discover more about herself and the things she liked.
Yeah, but she didn't do any of this with the intention of finding a goal. The pokepuff contest was to defeat Miette, her first battle was offscreen and right before Shauna mentioned showcases, and pokévisions are just hobbies, like reading comics.
 
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