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Do you enjoy type specialist goals?

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Actively trying to train a specific Pokémon type more than others. I personally don’t mind the goal and think it’s better than the goals we’ve got in the past two generations. Anyway I wouldn’t mind if it was brought back again next generation as long as it’s expanded upon even further than Iris’ (like how Iris’ goal was further expanded than Misty’s).
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think type specialist works as well as any other goal; as in so long as you actually have them DOING something related to it, it gives them a depth. I think the recurring problem however is many type specialists struggle to do so. Misty, Iris, the SM cast, a bit too often they're reduced to not doing much to enhance their goal but talk about how much they love a particular type.

Misty in particular suffered up until the closing points of the OS since she ended up kinda upstaged by Ash as well. He had two water types and they were both more charismatic and spotlighted than her team for the large part. She had a full team of water types, but not a lot of them had much of a personality or abilities to make them more significant.

Some say Iris did better since she was at least a bit more proactive than Misty and her typing wasn't shared with one of Ash's team. However, most of her team weren't even Dragon types, her most involved battler didn't even have a Dragon type move. The Dragonite arc was a step up, but was quite controversial in how she abruptly got given a pseudo legendary.

The SM cast vary, but they are limited greatly by how stagnant they are. Kiawe is probably the best handled since he has two (technically three) dual Fire types, and despite Ash having a Fire type (a starter at that) they still manage to contend with him in terms of unique abilities and personalities, and also have the series gimmick tied into his typing as well as a few other bits of the region's lore. Giving Kiawe his own occupation alongside that to be safe does help a bit though.
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
I don't enjoy them because they're too vague. It's the same problem with Ash's goal of becoming a Pokemon Master.

Since it's hard to define what a "type master" is, it's really difficult to measure progress. Misty has caught and trained several different Water-type Pokemon, even training one of the toughest Pokemon out there to the point of Mega Evolution, but is she a Water-type Pokemon master? I'd say she's pretty damn close but because the show doesn't give us a definition or standard it's really, really difficult to be certain either way.

That makes storytelling trickier because the broad definition implies that this quest is endless. In which case, when do you stop? At what point has the character's journey concluded?

Goals really need to be specific and focused. The more defined they are, the easier it is to relate them to the character. Too big or too vague a goal ultimately becomes meaningless. They don't feel personal to the character at all.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I tend to be fine with not perfectly defined goals so long as they at least give the character some amount of proactivity. Ash for example has his not-very-well-defined goal as Pokemon Master but it keeps him motivated, and in SM especially, his personality compliments that. He wants to know everything about Pokemon and just immerse himself in their world.

One of the problems with the type specialists is that, as mentioned, it didn't always keep them proactive or help broaden their character. Misty was okay in the Kanto season but then slowly dwindled in proactivity until it was nearly time for her to leave the main cast, and within that she only really has a couple really memorable Water types.

Kiawe is a safer approach since he has a job alongside his type specialist goal, basically a life direction and a hobby. Both his Pokemon are also quite enjoyable.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Honestly, no. Kasumi was a good character, yet her goal with Water-types hardly went anywhere. Iris was slightly more consistent with her Dragon Master dream, yet even she fell flat at the end of her run.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Some say Iris did better since she was at least a bit more proactive than Misty and her typing wasn't shared with one of Ash's team. However, most of her team weren't even Dragon types, her most involved battler didn't even have a Dragon type move. The Dragonite arc was a step up, but was quite controversial in how she abruptly got given a pseudo legendary.
Wasn’t Dragonite her main battler? And I think the writers were trying to convey that becoming a Dragon Master doesn’t always add up to catching every Dragon you see. I mean look at Misty, what did most of then do besides Starmie, Staryu and Pysduck? Excadrill was her first Pokémon and I’d be weirded out if she stopped using him just because she wanted to become a DM. Also from a strategic point of view her owning a Steel type actually makes sense.
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
I prefer type variety, thank you very much, so type specialist stuff bore me.

I give the SM cast a pass because even though none of the type specialists have Pokemon that aren't of their type (dual-types are excluded, obviously), none of them desire to be experts of said type. They also aren't given full teams so it isn't just Fire x 6, Electric x 6, Grass x 6, etc.

There's 18 types, so why limit the possibilities by giving someone a full team of six of the same thing? I mean, it'll probably never be as bad as Misty, who had the ever useful Goldeen and two members of the same evolutionary line on her team.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t Dragonite her main battler? And I think the writers were trying to convey that becoming a Dragon Master doesn’t always add up to catching every Dragon you see. I mean look at Misty, what did most of then do besides Starmie, Staryu and Pysduck? Excadrill was her first Pokémon and I’d be weirded out if she stopped using him just because she wanted to become a DM. Also from a strategic point of view her owning a Steel type actually makes sense.

Yeah but Dragonite didn't appear until over halfway into the BW series.

I don't mind that premise, but I think they could have had more balance. Before Dragonite all she had was her baby Pokemon Axew to add to her goal. I will grant her Pokemon felt more developed than most of Misty's however, not just some commodity.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Iris's goal was kind of sabotaged by Isshu's small amount of Dragon-types anyway, at least in the first half of Best Wishes. She just didn't have many choices for a second Dragon-type back then.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Iris's goal was kind of sabotaged by Isshu's small amount of Dragon-types anyway, at least in the first half of Best Wishes. She just didn't have many choices for a second Dragon-type back then.

Well to be fair they could have easily reworked that episode that one episode with the 3 Deino into a capture episode for Iris by having it to where that one Deino that was waiting for it's trainer, to have it where it's trainer never comes back for it and it decides to travel with Iris, after all it's not like Ghetsis ever used a Hydreigon in anime, and they could just give Cameron a different pokemon or not even have him appear at all.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Isshu's small amount of Dragon-types anyway
number of evolutionary lines that have a Dragon type (not counting Megas, legendaries, and mythicals, and counting Alolan formes as Gen VII)

Gen I: 1
Gen II: 1
Gen III: 3
Gen IV: 1
Gen V: 3
Gen VI: 4
Gen VII: 6

So, I can agree with you, that, compared to the most recent two generations' proliferation of dragons, Gen V didn't have as many, BUT, maybe this is only looking at it with 20/20 hindsight? I doubt anybody at the time of Gen V would have said it was acceptable for her to not get Dragons because the gen didn't have enough -- at the time it was tied for the most of any gen.
 

MattySadler

Well-Known Member
I can't recall a "type specialist goal" ever being done well in the anime.

Although, having said that, I can't actually recall any goals being particularly well done...
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
MattySadler said:
I can't recall a "type specialist goal" ever being done well in the anime.

Nor can I, unless Gym Leaders count. The anime in general struggles when it comes to focusing on a single type of Pokemon for too long from what I've seen.
 
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