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Do you like/dislike Smogon's tiering process?

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by windsong, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. windsong

    windsong WEST SIDE

    OK, I see so much mindless hating on Smogon here that it seems sort of ridiculous at times, and the base of all that hatred seems to be centered around the tier list and their tier creation process, but it seems like for the most part, the people who comment on how much they hate smogon and such have no idea how the tiering process works.

    So basically this thread is an attempt to get those of you who don't understand the tiering process properly to read something about it, and explain why you like/dislike smogon's tiering process!
     
  2. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    I'm acting against my better judgement by approving this but.. if you can all keep this civil (haha) I'll allow it.

    But I want to get something out of the way before it comes up.. A lot of you think Smogon is "ban happy". Here is this gen's banlist..

    Arceus
    Blaziken
    Darkrai
    Deoxys (Attack Forme)
    Deoxys (Normal Forme)
    Dialga
    Garchomp
    Giratina (Altered Forme)
    Giratina (Origin Forme)
    Groudon
    Ho-Oh
    Kyogre
    Lugia
    Manaphy
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Rayquaza

    Reshiram
    Shaymin (Sky Forme)
    Zekrom

    Everything in Red was banned last gen too. Most were version legendaries or base 680s like Mewtwo and Dialga. Others were unquestionably broken like Darkrai or Shaymin S.

    Zekrom and Reshiram were added to this list because of obvious base stat totals and ridiculous destructive potential.

    Blaziken so far is THE ONLY Pokemon ban so far that wasn't legendary. Swift Swim + Drizzle and the Inconsistent ban was done to PREVENT more things from going to ubers.

    In fact the Ubers list is smaller this gen.

    Latios
    Latias
    Deoxys S
    Deoxys D
    Salamence
    Wobbuffet
    Mew


    These were all unbanned. Not to mention Garchomp, Manaphy, Shaymin S Deoxys N, Deoxys A and Darkrai being given a shot in OU. So before anyone starts shouting their mouth off about Smogon being "ban happy" keep in mind they've unbanned far more than banned this gen. Chances are you're just angry about Blaziken, but no one cares.
     
  3. Guildenstarn

    Guildenstarn That Guy

    Smogons got one of the best riering processes going on right now. I thik the reason most people don't like them is because they feel forced to abide by the rules or something. The Tiers are based on whats used, assuming things that are good will be more used. Heracross is UU cause no one uses it, not because Smogon doesn't want you to have fun. Umbreon is NU because no one uses it, it doesnt matter that its your favorite. Garchomp is Uber because its broken and makes the game to reliant on luck.
     
  4. Remorph

    Remorph Alone With Everybody

    I agree with MOST of this. I do think more should be banned, like ferrothorn.
     
  5. Excitable Boy

    Excitable Boy is a metaphor

    whatisthisidonteven

    I do think that Smogon's policy, while not exactly being ban-happy, does encourage bans to an extent. It's fairly easy to get something banned under it, since all it takes is a base of voters more partial to the cause to create a bandwagon. I'd like to cite Reuniclus and Excadrill as examples of this.

    Still, the end result is always fine, so I dunno. I do think there should be a rule implemented, though, that there needs to be a REALLY good reason to put a Pokemon back on the chopping block after two nominations for it to be banned have failed.
     
  6. Mayu808

    Mayu808 GIGA DRILL BREAK!!!!

    There's no reason to ban ferrothorn. A simple flamethrower can kill him in usually one, maybe two shots. Otherwise, conkeldurr just rapes him to death. Actually most fighting types do regardless of weather. So, yeah, just cause you don't like ferrothorn doesn't mean its anywhere near broken (and trust me, I HATE ferrothorn with a passion, but it's a good poke) The only thing they had to ban left in OU was thunderus and idk if thy will go through or not. He's really only broken under rain, but I always have a gastrodon just in case. Other then maybe how long the process can take at times, it's all good. You can't really complain about how the tiers are ATM so why bother whining? Besides, you still gotta give them credit for being able to sit through the long a** process and then having to listen to the "uneducated" whiners who don't like that blaziken is just not coming out of uber. Oh yeah, chandelure will probably at least be a suspect when they release it's DW ability, but I doubt it will be enough to make it to ubers. Then again, what do I know :D
     
  7. LetsGoJeto

    LetsGoJeto I pwn weather teams

    Depends really. I just dislike how repetitive the OU tier is. Rarely do I come across a trainer there who doesn't have the same team as another. But, if your goal is to win, it makes perfect sense.

    It's just fun to smash through expected OU teams though. If you fight the same pokes 43845 times, you'd have to be pretty dense not to figure out a counter. Hell, even without many other pokemon in the OU tier.

    He's pretty easy to counter.
     
  8. TheAceGlaceon

    TheAceGlaceon Statu variabilis

    Ferrothorn shouldn't be banned!

    Creative teams with unexpected Pokémon who still can win, are the best. I kinda dislike the tiers.
     
  9. Rezzuréct

    Rezzuréct Allez Les Bleus!

    I'm not happy because Staraptor is BL not UU..
     
  10. Ruby Blue

    Ruby Blue Well-Known Member

    Don't tell me you didn't expect it.


    I think that Smogon's tiering is probably the fairest way to do things.
    Rather than assign tiers by theory and base stats, it's put into practice and the players can change the position of pokémon.

    It's all down to usage, the more useful pokémon are, the more likely they will be used by players. Obviously, usefulness isn't always the case, as seen with Quagsire/Gastrodon and Swampert, but for the most part the pokémon in a tier deserve to be in that tier.
     
  11. Dark Sharpedo

    Dark Sharpedo s tier of dopeness

    Yeah, Smogon is not ban happy. Thats why Mew is UU, and Latios has stayed OU. Thundurus is really the only pokemon left to ban, although people have found their ways by him (i.e Stone Edge Dugtrio, Scarf Landorus, and CB Mamo). There isnt really anything else thatis 'broken' and hasnt already been banned.
    So in my mind no, Smogon is not ban happy, since they have only banned the most broken pokemon out there.
     
  12. Monster Guy

    Monster Guy Fairy Tale Man

    I don't really care that much.

    I really only lurk on Smogon to get ideas for movesets and such. I don't post in their forums, and I use the PO server most of the time.

    That said, most things that get banned deserved to be banned for some reason. Speed Boost Blaziken was on every team when it was allowed. My god that was a nightmare if you weren't prepared. <_<
     
  13. Vandslaux

    Vandslaux Well-Known Member

    And I still run into too many of them from people who somehow are able to use Blaziken in OU.

    I don't see where all this hate comes from. People whine because their favorite pokemon is in a low tier, but it's because they aren't very good. Their tier is generally best for them. I agree with how Smogon does it. Tiers aren't stupid, they balance out the game. And Smogon is NOT ban-happy. Everything that's been banned needed to be banned. (Blaziken, DW Chandelure, Garchomp) See where I'm going? All of them were broken.

    Oh, yeah, and Reshiram/Zekrom were added because they didn't exist in 4th gen. And for the reasons stated.
     
  14. Ivanka

    Ivanka Freeeeeeeeee

    Smogon probably does have the best tiering processes at the moment. The members there put a lot of work into testing Pokemon within the current metagame and then base their votes depending on that. It's probably the best way to do it. As for the bans, I wouldn't exactly call them "Ban happy" because as of yet they haven't really made any outrageous bans at all. I think at the moment they're doing a really good job. Everyone's saying Thundurus is to be next, but honestly speaking, I don't find it that much of an issue that it needs to be banned from OU. But that's my own opinion. ^^'
     
  15. Tyranitarquake

    Tyranitarquake HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX!!!

    smogon's tiering makes sense, and i dont think they are ban happy or latios and thundurus would be there
     
  16. Avenger Angel

    Avenger Angel Warrior of Heaven

    It's really just a tool, not a straightjacket. You're free to use it as you wish, and it's really just there as a guide.

    I think it's pretty useful, plus they give some pretty good competitive advice.
     
  17. irock245

    irock245 She wants it

    people may say smogon's tiering process sucks, but not many wil ltake the time to do al lthat work to see if the pokemon actually needs to be banned. I think it's fine for now, i just wish it would go faster when choosing to ban something.
     
  18. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp be your own guru

    This is sort of why I wish they allowed analysis for weaker Pokemon like Shuckle and Slaking but whatever you can still use them on the simulators.

    Anyways I do like their tiering system however I'm still bummed about Blaziken being uber but don't get me started on all the complex bans I can come up with for the other ubers.
     
  19. LetsGoJeto

    LetsGoJeto I pwn weather teams

    ^^^

    Agreed.

    SB blaze and sand veil garchomp are not that hard to counter. Hell, you don't even have to make your team around being able to counter those. You just have to understand the gameplay and hopefully your pokemon can counter all sorts of situations.
     
  20. GOLDENCRS

    GOLDENCRS I'm a f***** Ponyta

    Smogon is in no way shape or form ban happy. Honestly, SB Blaziken was ridiculously overpowered and with an Adamant set, he could have swept whole teams with his great Offensive Typing. Garchomp was soooooo broken in the Sand, half the time, it could just use SD to +6 and sweep everything because it is nearly un-hittable. I am also glad they let the Lati Twins out of Ubers, because they aren't broken without Soul Dew. I know when Soul Dew is released (if it ever is), we will have to say bye to the Lati Twins but Smogon does this for the players. If you complain, that is your loss because if any of the Pokemon that are in Ubers as of right now were in OU, they would most definitely be broken.




    EDIT: If Thundurus is banned I will cry in a corner.
     

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