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Do you like Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green? How do you rate the game?

jaden767

Amphetamine
Baggie_Saiyan said:
Lack of animated sprites (IIRC no sprit differences between games either)

So what? The same thing applies to Ruby and Sapphire when it came to not having animated sprites. Also most games after this didn't have sprite differences between paired games either so...

the forcing of using Gen 1 Mons, the not being able to transfer from your RS games until post game and even then the whole post game was basically a quest for you to be able to transfer.

Well duh. These were Kanto remakes meant to focus on Kanto Pokemon. At least Gen 2 and 3 mons were able to be attained in the postgame which is better than nothing.

No improvement to the boring Gen 1 story either.

Did you even play these games? GF literally added the Sevii Islands storyline as a way for trainers to explore more areas and get more training done.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Well duh. These were Kanto remakes meant to focus on Kanto Pokemon. At least Gen 2 and 3 mons were able to be attained in the postgame which is better than nothing.

It's not much better than nothing since the main game is the bulk of your adventure. Also means that some of the Elite 4 rosters like Agatha and Lance are stuck spamming the Gengar and Dragonite lines and Pokemon not of their type.

Did you even play these games? GF literally added the Sevii Islands storyline as a way for trainers to explore more areas and get more training done.

Again, this is post game. The main game storyline is basically untouched and is still the same aimless, barebones Saturday morning cartoon fare as the original.

That's the main flaw with FRLG. There's little to no changes until the post game, the main adventure is a BDSP-esque copy/paste job.
 

Ohshi

Banned from Club Penguin
I liked the game. Sevii Islands was a cool addition. I rate it like a 8/10. I just wish it incorporated stuff from Pokemon Yellow like how the future remakes incorporated stuff from the "third" games from their respective generations then it would have been 8.5/10 for me. But to be fair, FRLG was the first remake.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I liked the game. Sevii Islands was a cool addition. I rate it like a 8/10. I just wish it incorporated stuff from Pokemon Yellow like how the future remakes incorporated stuff from the "third" games from their respective generations then it would have been 8.5/10 for me. But to be fair, FRLG was the first remake.

There were also less differences between RB and Yellow than some of the later third versions. Only differences were that you started with Pikachu, it could follow you around outside its Poke Ball, Jessie and James had a role in the story, and the usual wild Pokemon/trainer roster changes you see in every third version. Whereas later ones had entirely new sidequests/side modes added (examples: the Battle Tower in Crystal, the Battle Frontier in Emerald and Platinum, Pokestar Studios, Join Avenue, and the PWT in BW2, Ultra Warp Ride in USUM) and entirely different climaxes to their stories. Yellow... really didn't have anything on that scale and its differences felt relatively minor.

Also, HGSS and LGPE are really the only remakes that included third version content (and LGPE only did so to differentiate it from FRLG). ORAS and BDSP ignored almost everything Emerald and Platinum improved. So later remakes including third version content... really isn't a regular occurrence (they really, really should, but Game Freak keeps being lazy and cash grabby because nostalgia).
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
I liked the game. Sevii Islands was a cool addition. I rate it like a 8/10. I just wish it incorporated stuff from Pokemon Yellow like how the future remakes incorporated stuff from the "third" games from their respective generations then it would have been 8.5/10 for me. But to be fair, FRLG was the first remake.
Yeah it would've at least been cool to play the Surfing minigame which I liked a whole lot more in Yellow version than I liked the wireless minigames in these remakes. :[
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Yeah it would've at least been cool to play the Surfing minigame which I liked a whole lot more in Yellow version than I liked the wireless minigames in these remakes. :[

Oh right, I should've mentioned the Surfing minigame. That technically is a new side mode in Yellow, but for one it's relatively inaccessible because you need a Surfing Pikachu in the original, and two it's really shallow. The other third versions tend to add sidequests/side modes that are a little more involved than a quick minigame. So I don't really miss it the same way I would say, the Battle Frontier from Emerald or Platinum, because the latter is a much larger chunk of content.
 

Ohshi

Banned from Club Penguin
ORAS and BDSP ignored almost everything Emerald and Platinum improved.

I understand ORAS should have had the Battle Frontier but at least it had the Delta Episode I guess lol.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I understand ORAS should have had the Battle Frontier but at least it had the Delta Episode I guess lol.

The Delta Episode isn't Emerald content, it's an original story arc that has almost nothing to do with Emerald's storyline (there's a vague reference to Rayquaza's lore as the mediator between Groudon and Kyogre, but that's it, you don't see Rayquaza calm them down in the story, and you don't see Magma and Aqua both causing trouble in the region and all of the changes that accompany that such as Magma's base being in Mt. Chimney instead of Lilycove and Groudon being in Magma Hideout instead of Seafloor Cavern). There's also much more than just Emerald's story and the Battle Frontier in Emerald, there's the expanded Safari Zone, the fossils being in Mirage Tower and Desert Underpass instead of some random corner of the desert, Match Call and the ability to rematch gym leaders with it, Juan replacing Wallace as gym leader (and Wallace becoming Champion with Steven becoming a post game boss), catching Groudon and Kyogre in Terra/Marine Cave postgame, Trainer Hill. ORAS had... basically none of that. That vague lore reference is literally the only Emerald content that existed in ORAS, so it's fair to lump ORAS in with BDSP when it comes to third version content. The only difference between ORAS and BDSP as far as content is that ORAS had more original content and features, there was nothing on the scale of the Delta Episode or the Dexnav or the new Megas in BDSP.

At any rate, back to FRLG. The games did ignore the Yellow content like ORAS and BDSP but there was also much less to ignore, Yellow doesn't have any changes on the level of what I listed for Emerald. There were no new areas. There were no storyline changes. The only new content was the chinzy Surfing minigame that most people probably never got to play. It's basically RB all over again but with a different starter and a few changes to the wild Pokemon and trainer rosters. I'm not exactly crying about that kind of stuff not being included in the same way I am for missing entire areas, Pokemon, story elements, or side content in the likes of ORAS and BDSP.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Another criticism I have for the games is that some areas of the Sevii Islands have a few areas that are pointless after you do the sidequests for them or have no reason to be revisited again once you accomplish what needs to be done there. Pattern Bush is pointless for a post game area other than for catching Spinarak, Ledyba, and Heracross and even then the former two are far too weak to be useful that late in the game due to them being found at such low levels, Green Path and Outcast Island are absolutely pointless as literally every Pokémon found there can be found elsewhere, Sevault Canyon is only good for finding Skarmory IF you have FR and Larvitar and even then it’s annoying to try to find given their low encounter rate, the Tanoby Ruins has no purpose after catching all of the Unown, and Seven Island is only worth going to for the Battle Tower.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Another criticism I have for the games is that some areas of the Sevii Islands have a few areas that are pointless after you do the sidequests for them or have no reason to be revisited again once you accomplish what needs to be done there. Pattern Bush is pointless for a post game area other than for catching Spinarak, Ledyba, and Heracross and even then the former two are far too weak to be useful that late in the game due to them being found at such low levels, Green Path and Outcast Island are absolutely pointless as literally every Pokémon found there can be found elsewhere, Sevault Canyon is only good for finding Skarmory IF you have FR and Larvitar and even then it’s annoying to try to find given their low encounter rate, the Tanoby Ruins has no purpose after catching all of the Unown, and Seven Island is only worth going to for the Battle Tower.

How is that any different from any other game? It's pretty typical for any route to feel relatively pointless after you've battling all of the trainers, caught all of the Pokemon, and collected all of the items. That says more about FRLG's sidequests not being engaging than it does about the areas themselves. If you want to say the sidequests in the game period aren't engaging I would agree, there's no huge, involved sidequest in the vein of Contests or Secret Bases to occupy your time after you've finished with the region and Pokemon, you've just got a relatively basic battle facility in Trainer Hill and a bunch of shallow minigames in the two Game Corners.
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
Another criticism I have for the games is that some areas of the Sevii Islands have a few areas that are pointless after you do the sidequests for them or have no reason to be revisited again once you accomplish what needs to be done there. Pattern Bush is pointless for a post game area other than for catching Spinarak, Ledyba, and Heracross and even then the former two are far too weak to be useful that late in the game due to them being found at such low levels, Green Path and Outcast Island are absolutely pointless as literally every Pokémon found there can be found elsewhere, Sevault Canyon is only good for finding Skarmory IF you have FR and Larvitar and even then it’s annoying to try to find given their low encounter rate, the Tanoby Ruins has no purpose after catching all of the Unown, and Seven Island is only worth going to for the Battle Tower.
Well that's pretty much the same for most routes and locations in any game after you finish catching all available Pokemon. So it's not a unique criticism that only applies to the Sevii Islands. :[

Also to be fair Outcast Island was meant to have a bigger purpose but we never got the Mystery Gift event that unlocked the special Pokemon inside Altering Cave.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Also to be fair Outcast Island was meant to have a bigger purpose but we never got the Mystery Gift event that unlocked the special Pokemon inside Altering Cave.

That might've helped a little, but it would've only contained a handful of Colosseum exclusives that we later just got in Emerald's Safari Zone expansion. You would've gone from ignoring it altogether to going there for a few minutes to catch the Pokemon and then ignoring it the rest of the game. I don't think that would've moved the needle much.

Again, I think the more accurate criticism of "nothing to do after you finish exploring" has more to do with the kinds of sidequests offered (or lack thereof). What does the game really offer period when you finish exploring the areas, battling the trainers, and catching the Pokemon? You can basically battle in Trainer Hill, gamble in the Celadon Game Corner, and play quick minigames in the Two Island Game Corner. That's pretty much it. Other games from that era had larger sidequests/content that either was an entire mini-adventure or something you could keep coming back to and engaging with, things like Contests, Secret Bases, Battle Frontier, Sinnoh Underground, Pokestar Studios, and Join Avenue. Now granted most of that came after FRLG, but RS still had Contests and Secret Bases and FRLG had nothing of that scale so it still felt like a slight step back in that area. Now I can't be too harsh because it still had kind of a lot for its time (it had more to do than the likes of RBY and GSC and a much bigger postgame than RS), but I still can't help but feel they could've done a bit better, even for its time.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
That might've helped a little, but it would've only contained a handful of Colosseum exclusives that we later just got in Emerald's Safari Zone expansion. You would've gone from ignoring it altogether to going there for a few minutes to catch the Pokemon and then ignoring it the rest of the game. I don't think that would've moved the needle much.

Again, I think the more accurate criticism of "nothing to do after you finish exploring" has more to do with the kinds of sidequests offered (or lack thereof). What does the game really offer period when you finish exploring the areas, battling the trainers, and catching the Pokemon? You can basically battle in Trainer Hill, gamble in the Celadon Game Corner, and play quick minigames in the Two Island Game Corner. That's pretty much it. Other games from that era had larger sidequests/content that either was an entire mini-adventure or something you could keep coming back to and engaging with, things like Contests, Secret Bases, Battle Frontier, Sinnoh Underground, Pokestar Studios, and Join Avenue. Now granted most of that came after FRLG, but RS still had Contests and Secret Bases and FRLG had nothing of that scale so it still felt like a slight step back in that area. Now I can't be too harsh because it still had kind of a lot for its time (it had more to do than the likes of RBY and GSC and a much bigger postgame than RS), but I still can't help but feel they could've done a bit better, even for its time.
That’s exactly what I mean. Some of the Sevii Islands had Pokémon way too low leveled for post game areas. Pattern Bush had Pokémon under level 10 which is incredibly low for a place accessible only in the post game and when you are definitely going to have Pokémon in your party at least level 40. And you pretty much need to go there if you want Heracross.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
That’s exactly what I mean. Some of the Sevii Islands had Pokémon way too low leveled for post game areas. Pattern Bush had Pokémon under level 10 which is incredibly low for a place accessible only in the post game and when you are definitely going to have Pokémon in your party at least level 40. And you pretty much need to go there if you want Heracross.

The wild Pokemon being low level in post game areas has nothing to do with the lack of content, those are two separate issues. Having a Heracross or a Ledyba to catch is still content regardless of if it's Lv. 10 or Lv. 40.

I'm not really bothered much with the low level Pokemon because as long as you have a Pokemon with False Swipe (and there are several options, you could get a Farfetch'd, Marowak, or Scyther in FR), it's easy enough to catch. And you probably won't care to train it up unless you're training Pokemon for competitive, you'll have engaged with most of the game content you'd be using it for. So I don't see why this is a major issue. The bigger issue is why don't they bother just putting new Pokemon in the main game instead of sticking to the same 150 as the originals? It'd be nice to use a Heracross on the actual adventure, in the gyms, in the Team Rocket events, etc. instead of having to wait until post game where you don't have much of an opportunity to use them.
 

Mirai

Well-Known Member
That’s exactly what I mean. Some of the Sevii Islands had Pokémon way too low leveled for post game areas. Pattern Bush had Pokémon under level 10 which is incredibly low for a place accessible only in the post game and when you are definitely going to have Pokémon in your party at least level 40. And you pretty much need to go there if you want Heracross.
Yeah that was actually weird. I remember how G/S/C's Kanto had really low leveled wild Pokemon too so you'd think Game Freak would've learned from their mistake but I guess not?

I love these games despite their flaws. What I loved most of all was the soundtrack which remixed the Gen 1 songs perfectly.
 

Flashyspark

Well-Known Member
They're cool games. I loved Emerald a lot more than these remakes but these have got a certain charm about them. They really improved on all the flaws of the originals but I wish that they kept some of the rarer Pokemon in Cerulean Cave like Chansey.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
They're cool games. I loved Emerald a lot more than these remakes but these have got a certain charm about them. They really improved on all the flaws of the originals but I wish that they kept some of the rarer Pokemon in Cerulean Cave like Chansey.

I wouldn't say they improved on all of the flaws, not in the slightest. The main game content was basically not touched at all and there's a lot of aspects of RBY that were outdated even then (and are heavily outdated now). FRLG is basically RB with a post game tacked on, and that in of itself makes it the least bad Kanto game when the likes of Yellow and LGPE exist, but it didn't make the same kind of changes throughout the entire game that games like HGSS and ORAS did so it still feels regressive. Also, every remake feels like it's held back by sticking with the content of the original such as the same regional dexes, map designs, etc. Feels like some of these older games need more of the BW2/LA treatment and totally reimagining the games to feel more like modern 3D console games instead of just the glorified copy/paste job you get with a remake.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I wouldn't say they improved on all of the flaws, not in the slightest. The main game content was basically not touched at all and there's a lot of aspects of RBY that were outdated even then (and are heavily outdated now). FRLG is basically RB with a post game tacked on, and that in of itself makes it the least bad Kanto game when the likes of Yellow and LGPE exist, but it didn't make the same kind of changes throughout the entire game that games like HGSS and ORAS did so it still feels regressive. Also, every remake feels like it's held back by sticking with the content of the original such as the same regional dexes, map designs, etc. Feels like some of these older games need more of the BW2/LA treatment and totally reimagining the games to feel more like modern 3D console games instead of just the glorified copy/paste job you get with a remake.
HGSS strayed a bit from the copy and paste job map layout by adding an entirely new area complete with two full routes full of wild Pokémon and a customizable Safari Zone past Cianwood City. You have to remember this was created from the ground up as there was only a cliff in the original games. And ORAS made Mauville City into a gigantic building which is pretty ingenious and unexpected as no one would have thought to make a giant building its own city. And Ever Grande doesn’t count as it is just Victory Road and the Pokémon League.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
HGSS strayed a bit from the copy and paste job map layout by adding an entirely new area complete with two full routes full of wild Pokémon and a customizable Safari Zone past Cianwood City. You have to remember this was created from the ground up as there was only a cliff in the original games. And ORAS made Mauville City into a gigantic building which is pretty ingenious and unexpected as no one would have thought to make a giant building its own city. And Ever Grande doesn’t count as it is just Victory Road and the Pokémon League.

A little bit, yeah, but it was only a handful of areas, mainly new ones while the bulk of the game maps were mainly untouched. HGSS added an extra hill or two to some of its layouts to give the maps more verticality than what the GB was capable of, but that's about it. There's... a lot more areas that feel like they could use an overhaul, especially in the GB games. Mountainous areas don't feel mountainous, they just feel like flat paths with ledges thanks to the GB's limitations. There's not much environmental diversity, especially in Kanto, mainly just generic fields, cities, caves, and waters. The tile based design of the 2D games make them feel like Minecraft levels. There's no appropriate sense of size, scale, or openness. The GB's limitations were limiting enough even in 3rd gen (simple changes such as having hillier looking areas and being able to walk under paths feel like groundbreaking achievements for the GBA games), now they couldn't be more obvious if there was a flashing neon sign that said "Outdated Game Design". Feels like it's time to send the original map designs of RBY to the trash bin where they belong and start from scratch designing Kanto as it would be if RBY were being created today. 3D Console Kanto would be infinitely better than anything we could've even dreamed of back in RBY. It doesn't even need to be BotW-esque open world to put RBY's designs to shame, even if they designed it more like SM or the non-Wild Area parts of SwSh it would still feel miles better than RBY.
 
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