PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
99% of the time when a pokemon falls to the ground and especially for a long period of time the referee declares it unable to battle,so realistically Paul should have won that final battle.
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Do you prefer action oriented, story progression, or both in terms of episode structure?
- Thread starter Ignition
- Start date
I think one thing that should maybe be pinpointed concerns character development, since I find there's different ways of doing it. One is to have a character change and grow as the story goes on, and another is to have us see more of what is already there. Thus we can have a mostly stagnant character that still shows a fresh sense of depth to them we haven't seen before due to different circumstances going on.
Maybe this is why I don't feel that disappointed with SM's group, since while their progression has been rather stagnant, we do get some really good moments of character introspective or activity, and while Ash often outshines them in role, they still provide decent humour and bits of personality. In other words, they're not incredibly dynamic, but they're FUN. There have been previous companions or Pokemon in the anime who get concise character arcs throughout their series, and yet, they fail to be entertaining in terms of what they do and are even a bit boring in spite of their development.
I think people have come to detest episodic plots in the anime because for the longest time, it was often associated with bland formula where we didn't actually get anything noteworthy or entertaining out of the characters. I've seen plenty of episodic stories in shows that are among their most heartfelt and entertaining stories they have. Hell I've seen plenty of shows that have next to no continuity at all, but the characters and their world still endear themselves to me. Did this ever have a follow on to it in it's show? Did it NEED one?
Maybe this is why I don't feel that disappointed with SM's group, since while their progression has been rather stagnant, we do get some really good moments of character introspective or activity, and while Ash often outshines them in role, they still provide decent humour and bits of personality. In other words, they're not incredibly dynamic, but they're FUN. There have been previous companions or Pokemon in the anime who get concise character arcs throughout their series, and yet, they fail to be entertaining in terms of what they do and are even a bit boring in spite of their development.
I think people have come to detest episodic plots in the anime because for the longest time, it was often associated with bland formula where we didn't actually get anything noteworthy or entertaining out of the characters. I've seen plenty of episodic stories in shows that are among their most heartfelt and entertaining stories they have. Hell I've seen plenty of shows that have next to no continuity at all, but the characters and their world still endear themselves to me. Did this ever have a follow on to it in it's show? Did it NEED one?
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Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
Not counting the time to when Electivire let go of Infernape and went straight to the supporting cast's worried faces, Infernape was down for 5 seconds. That's not a long time
99% of the time when a pokemon falls to the ground and especially for a long period of time the referee declares it unable to battle,so realistically Paul should have won that final battle.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
It was a lot longer than 5 seconds and regardless of how long it went straight to the ground which should be an immediate loss.
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
It shouldn't have. If it was still able to battle, then it should be given the chance to.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
If it was able to battle then the referee shouldn't have attempted to declare it unable to battle
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
The ref barely gave it time to react. Obviously it was able to battle but the ref just presumed. Quite funny that a Pokémon could see if its opponent had any energy left but someone who's job is to do just that can't.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Why would the referee give any pokemon time to react after falling to the ground?They've always done this formula whether it be gym battles or league battles,except in this situation they didn't,plot armor saved Ash from losing to Paul.
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
If you fall on the ground after being hit by an attack, why should you assume the Pokemon fainted? It's not about if they fall; they clearly show spiral eyes in almost every instance.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Write a complaint to the writers.A referee declared Charizard unable to battle just for taking a nap in a league battle against Ritchie.They might as well add in a 10 count like in boxing matches each time a pokemon falls to the ground.
They didn't add it because they were being overly dramatic about it which led to Infernape activating blaze.This was plot armor.
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Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
I'm not complaining. I'm questioning your statement. Even if it's over dramatic, it still stands that it didn't faint.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Yeah if you say so <_<
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
TBF I'm not denying it was plot armor. I do acknowledge it was kind of questionable. Especially since poor Electivire didn't have that luxury after their final clash
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
They should have just added in a 10 count rule if it's that hard to tell if a pokemon is out or not when they fall.But for the most part when a pokemon falls to the ground and stay there for a long period of time the referee is going to declare it unable to battle,they did this in the battle between Ash and Noland,Charizard took a lot of damage and was on the ground,the referee was about to declare it unable to battle until Noland stopped him and said to wait until it's finished beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Genaller
Silver Soul
For the record Infernape was fully on the ground at 14:48 in the episode and the ref was about to declare him unable to battle at 15:11, so he actually did wait for over 20 seconds. Also note that from the time it fell to the ground till the ref’s attempted declaration Infernape didn’t even open its eyes or move at all for that matter. Electivire interrupts the ref at 15:12 and Infernape starts showing movement from 15:13 onwards which the ref sees thus preventing him from finishing his declaration. It’s very possible that Electivire saves the match for Infernape especially if we take the interpretation that it was hearing Electivire’s voice which got Infernape moving again and even if it wasn’t the ref was able to say “Goukazaru is un-“ in 1 second meaning the he’d have finished saying “able to battle” before 15:13 which brings up an interesting quandry about what would happen if Infernape started getting up right as the ref finished making his call; would the decision be overturned?
Interestingly enough in the fake badge episode (the 1 where Brock got Corgunk) it seems that with a bit of rest a Pokémon can go from being KOed (swirly eyes included) to being in a not KOed state (though still presumably in critical condition). Not sure how seriously we’re meant to take that episode but it does give credence to the possibility that Infernape might actually have been KOed for a bit there. Also there are some other instances where a ref has declared an opponent as unable to battle without swirly eyes being present including Pikachu (Ash vs Tyson) and Articuno (Ash vs Noland where amusingly the ref was also going to declare Charizard unable to battle before Noland stopped him).
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
I think the biggest thing meant by @TheWanderingMist (and he can correct me if wrong) is beyond just this one episode, but just the fact that Ash only beat Paul once, and that too a down-to-the-wire match, hardly gives Paul the comeuppance he deserved for all the several victories he had over Ash.
Ignition
We are so back Zygardebros
I understood what they meant. Just talking about one aspect of that
Slapstick-Olivia
Well-Known Member
Neither of those. My personal favorite episodes are the filler episodes, because in most of those episodes the characters focus more on their personalities and interactions with each other, which makes them more believable and human in my eyes.
The gym battle episodes or battle sin general do not really much for me, because in those episodes we most of the time see always the same or similar Pokémon doing the battles: Pikachu. Lucario, Charizard, the Eevee family, the birds with similar fighting techniques etc. After a few years they do not really feel any special to me.
And the story driving episodes also really do not much for me, because in the end the story doesn't matter. It is Pokémon we are talking about. An anime that never focus that much on story, characters and world. It is like with The Simpsons, their world never change and so do the characters. Ash for example will ever by 10 years old, TR will still try to catch Pikachu, Ash will never have a girlfriend or find out about his father, it will stay the same as usual.
That is the reason why I like the fills most, because those not only over some interesting character dynamics, their often have some new ideas and situations for the characters to overcome.
The gym battle episodes or battle sin general do not really much for me, because in those episodes we most of the time see always the same or similar Pokémon doing the battles: Pikachu. Lucario, Charizard, the Eevee family, the birds with similar fighting techniques etc. After a few years they do not really feel any special to me.
And the story driving episodes also really do not much for me, because in the end the story doesn't matter. It is Pokémon we are talking about. An anime that never focus that much on story, characters and world. It is like with The Simpsons, their world never change and so do the characters. Ash for example will ever by 10 years old, TR will still try to catch Pikachu, Ash will never have a girlfriend or find out about his father, it will stay the same as usual.
That is the reason why I like the fills most, because those not only over some interesting character dynamics, their often have some new ideas and situations for the characters to overcome.