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Do you still feel upset about Pokemon as it currently is?

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Leonhart

Imagineer
WishIhadaManafi5 said:
To me, it feels like there's been some loss of love there (not quite the phrase that I want to use, but it's the closest one that I can think of). Just something that I've noticed in the more recent games. They're ok, but they aren't to be lacking something. I'm thinking that there's some burn out (in terms of the developers).

To me the newer games feel rushed and unfinished [especially in the case of Shield and Sword], although at least the expansion passes sort of made up for some of the missing features. Still, I wasn't particularly thrilled with the concept of spending approximately 5500 yen on either game last year, and then the added cost of the DLC this year.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
To me the newer games feel rushed and unfinished [especially in the case of Shield and Sword], although at least the expansion passes sort of made up for some of the missing features. Still, I wasn't particularly thrilled with the concept of spending approximately 5500 yen on either game last year, and then the added cost of the DLC this year.
I agree with you there. That kind of thing was less noticeable in past games though, given that the past team had more experience.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Pokemon has losen its essence from much earlier than you noticed.

The first Pokemon games were made out of love, but the recent games are made only to grab money

Yeah, no. The first Pokemon games were a buggy, unbalanced mess. The very existence of Missingno, among many, MANY other things is a testament to that. Even compared to other games at the time, Pokemon games were a mess and the games didn't really become truly balanced until like, Gen 4. This is straight up nostalgia goggles. Their intent was always will be to sell more games and make money. That is the reason why the two-game system exists when there's always been only minor differences; it artificially boosts sales.

Reminder: Game companies are not your friends, they're not making games for whimsical reasons. At the end of the day, they are a business and their first priority is, was, and always will be to make money.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
To me the newer games feel rushed and unfinished [especially in the case of Shield and Sword], although at least the expansion passes sort of made up for some of the missing features. Still, I wasn't particularly thrilled with the concept of spending approximately 5500 yen on either game last year, and then the added cost of the DLC this year.

I felt gen7 was more rushed (SM IM looking at you) than gen8 due to the 20th anniversary though it doesn't excuse gen 8 for having simplistic town maps. The wild area is nice but after some time it loses its appeal and becomes normal. Gen7 made leveling up Pokemon easy, gen8 made that near instant. The satisfaction of finding or getting rare candies is gone. Festival plaza still had use for rare candies but the exp candies make the previous ones normal. Exp candies are too easy to get in this generation. I find gen8 doesn't have as much staying power for me as gen6. Gen7 was a let down after gen6 but I do have small tasks that do make me load up UM to complete.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
What’s missing is that you’re twenty-some years older than you were when you played Red and Blue, or whatever your first game was.

If you took you at whatever age you were when you played your first Pokémon game and showed yourself either of the Switch core titles, you would be completely blown away.
The point is people who are 10 now, are used to better games then SWSH
 

SubtleVVeirdoh

Unova Enthusiast
I’m happier than I was when Gen 7 came out. I think Bc I’m partial to Megas I still don’t think it’s better than Gen 6, but only by a hair.

I said this on another post but the only reason I play this generation is just to do some mono runs. Nothing about the story is that compelling; more or less I just want to win my gym battles I don’t care how this plot unfolds; Max Raids on average are harder than gym battles but why?

I’d much rather get curb-stomped by a gym leader that’s using shoddy AI strategies like DT/Focus Punch, than a broken Obstagoon.

I’m happy with the DLC somewhat, but (personally) I shouldn’t have to buy a game AND its DLC to be happy with the overall product. The game should smooth like silk, and the dlc purely icing on the metaphorical cake (a personal example would be Outer Worlds).

After I finish SwSh I’d probably only play it to battle competitively. If I want say... better plot, “difficulty”, or anything else in between I’ll play Gen 6 or older.

Also Hop is the best rival/friend we can get? A carbon copy of Hau. And I HATED Hau, never hated NPCs as much as I hate these two.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I would disagree with you on this. I enjoyed Galar and believe it does have decent replay value. It’s not RE4 or FFX good but that’s comparing bananas and tomatoes—both are fruits but are totally different. For me XY had the least replay value and I had to really will myself to get to the point of Xerneas on that play through. Galar is very linear but has just enough to keep you engaged and taking breaks at the wild area helps. But your experience with these games is different so who am I to judge?


If anybody in 1996 was shown Sword/Shield next to RBY then they would be blown away, doesn’t matter who it is. Technology advanced quite a bit between then and now.
Lol so I guess that our taste in regions is 100 % different, cuz I ADORED XY
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
What’s missing is that you’re twenty-some years older than you were when you played Red and Blue, or whatever your first game was.

If you took you at whatever age you were when you played your first Pokémon game and showed yourself either of the Switch core titles, you would be completely blown away.

Not if we've played other Nintendo games like BotW and Mario Odyssey. We'd be blown away by those games instead and still think SwSh was lacking. The difference between then and now was that we accepted that Pokemon was going to be worse than the 3D Marios and 3D Zeldas because handhelds were severely limited compared to consoles and Pokemon was adequately taking advantage of what the Game Boy could do. Now, they're all on the same hardware and the comparisons are much more direct, so Pokemon is expected to rise to their level and they haven't. Not even close. The player's age has nothing to do with it, it's because Pokemon refuses to adapt their development practices to keep up with changes in technology.
 

Vini310

Well-Known Member
BotW and Mario Oddyssey look the way they do because they were developed by teams who had decades worth of experience in 3D games, while Game Freak only started developing fully 3D titles in 2013, on a handheld console, which can't keep up with home consoles.
Even SwSh were developed with the Switch's portable mode in mind.

And it's bold of you all to expect Game Freak's first game of that magnitudo to be a masterpiece, have you learned nothing from the previous Gens?
Gen 4 is bad compared to Gen 5
Gen 6 is bad compared to Gen 7
If you want a Pokémon game with Witcher 3-level graphics or whatever, wait until Gen 9 or 10.

And unless you're going to complete the Pokédex, there's no reason to play the base versions over the upper ones.
Ruby and Sapphire are bad because Emerald exists.
Diamond and Pearl are bad because Platinum exists.
Sun and Moon are bad because Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon exists.

So, you would rather pay $60 for a Pokémon Spear then pay $30 for a DLC? If yes, then don't bother complaing after choosing the obviously worse option.

The previous Pokémon games weren't the sunshine and rainbows you think they are. Gen 2 is a Master of None that introduced the worst feature of the entire series (Transfer Only Pokémon), Pokémon Crystal did NOTHING to fix the G/S's flaws, yet people say this Generation is the Gold standard for Pokémon.

And that's not getting into how Gen 5 got the same amount of hatred Gen 8 is getting now, don't complain when, in the following years, Pokémon gets infested with Galar fanboys. Genwunners, Unovabortions, Hoennbabes, etc, they are all nostalgia-blinded fans and anyone is being smart by not listening to them.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
BotW and Mario Oddyssey look the way they do because they were developed by teams who had decades worth of experience in 3D games, while Game Freak only started developing fully 3D titles in 2013, on a handheld console, which can't keep up with home consoles.
Even SwSh were developed with the Switch's portable mode in mind.

And it's bold of you all to expect Game Freak's first game of that magnitudo to be a masterpiece, have you learned nothing from the previous Gens?
Gen 4 is bad compared to Gen 5
Gen 6 is bad compared to Gen 7
If you want a Pokémon game with Witcher 3-level graphics or whatever, wait until Gen 9 or 10.

And unless you're going to complete the Pokédex, there's no reason to play the base versions over the upper ones.
Ruby and Sapphire are bad because Emerald exists.
Diamond and Pearl are bad because Platinum exists.
Sun and Moon are bad because Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon exists.

So, you would rather pay $60 for a Pokémon Spear then pay $30 for a DLC? If yes, then don't bother complaing after choosing the obviously worse option.

The previous Pokémon games weren't the sunshine and rainbows you think they are. Gen 2 is a Master of None that introduced the worst feature of the entire series (Transfer Only Pokémon), Pokémon Crystal did NOTHING to fix the G/S's flaws, yet people say this Generation is the Gold standard for Pokémon.

And that's not getting into how Gen 5 got the same amount of hatred Gen 8 is getting now, don't complain when, in the following years, Pokémon gets infested with Galar fanboys. Genwunners, Unovabortions, Hoennbabes, etc, they are all nostalgia-blinded fans and anyone is being smart by not listening to them.
"And it's bold of you all to expect Game Freak's first game of that magnitudo to be a masterpiece,"

Being one of the largest franchie in the world and making TONS OF money from it, yes - I expect the games to be GOOD.
They are not 3 years old kids. They know ppl will buy their games either way, and they dont put love into it. Look at Mario Odissey and Botw - I noticed the love the developers put into it from the second I started playing.

They are not some kids experimenting with their first game or their school's project. I am not going to make excuses for a huge company that makes tons of money from its fans.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Mistakes can happen with a project, even if it's one the people involved love. Game developers do tend to put love into their projects though the bigger a franchise gets the more employees are hired that are only in it for the money and not to contribute to the betterment of the franchise. I do think that the trend of making a third, better version needs to stop, heck maybe they can start doing single versions. If they can't fit everything they want into the base game before release and have to use DLC or a third version just to get close to everything they want in then they have to change their schedule to a, "when it's done." Basis. The anime and the fans will be fine. We don't need or want anyone having a breakdown over a fun fantasy.

Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely Gamefreak will take this advice anytime soon. Too many annoying fans who whine and complain when gaming companies take a while, and the higher ups don't exactly get that they don't have to worry about fans who say they'll quit buying their merchandise and games if they don't come out with a new game every year.
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
I'm not upset about the games. I thought they were all the same plot-wise and gameplay-wise except for the settings and gimmicks, so I played one game once per generation. Probably adding a difficulty option and a ranking system (your rewards depend how well you play) would add more replay value.

In the anime, I was upset about XY because how they handled Serena while glorifying Ash who I dislike and XY was my 1st full series I watched so my expectations were higher then. Otherwise, I watch the show casually to the point it doesn't affect me much if the episodes were good or not.
 

Vini310

Well-Known Member
"And it's bold of you all to expect Game Freak's first game of that magnitudo to be a masterpiece,"

Being one of the largest franchie in the world and making TONS OF money from it, yes - I expect the games to be GOOD.
They are not 3 years old kids. They know ppl will buy their games either way, and they dont put love into it. Look at Mario Odissey and Botw - I noticed the love the developers put into it from the second I started playing.

They are not some kids experimenting with their first game or their school's project. I am not going to make excuses for a huge company that makes tons of money from its fans.
Guess I should have rephrased that, so here it goes:
Game Freak has shown multiple times that their first attempts are rough/unrefined, therefore it is bold of you to assume their first attempt at making something will be good.

There's a reason people find Diamond and Pearl useless: Pokémon Platinum, their upper version, is superior in everything, and the same goes to Emerald when compared to Ruby and Sapphire, or even USUM compared to SM.

Putting love and effort into anything isn't an automatic sign of a good final result: a project that has love put into it can still fail if it's poorly managed:
- Lack of experience
- People from higher ranks of the team (e.g. publisher) demanding you to change your vision
- Poor time management
- Poor budget management

Pokémon Gold and Silver are the prime example of that, but before we go there, let me explain:
Let's suppose Pokémon GS never had two regions, instead this feature was applied for the first time in SwSh. However, it has problems:
- There's nothing to do in the region other than getting badges and battling Trainers, transforming the whole region into a Boss Rush with some generic enemies in-between.
- Everyone in the new region is extremely weak and underleveled compared to the Pokémon League you just faced.
- The True Final Boss is super strong, but the game's level curve isn't balanced around said boss, making it overleveled compared to everything else in the game.

People would hate this to no end, right?
Well, the Johto games (GSC, HGSS) have this problem and are still considered some of the best, if not THE best, Pokémon games ever made. And when you consider these games were made as the LAST in the series, it's just insulting they thought the final product was worth of being "the farewell". And that's not getting into how these games introduced the worst feature in the entire franchise: Transfer Only Pokémon.

But hey, they were part of people's childhoods, so it's okay to hold them as absolute perfection while trashing on everything new.
 
BotW and Mario Oddyssey look the way they do because they were developed by teams who had decades worth of experience in 3D games, while Game Freak only started developing fully 3D titles in 2013, on a handheld console, which can't keep up with home consoles.
Even SwSh were developed with the Switch's portable mode in mind.

And it's bold of you all to expect Game Freak's first game of that magnitudo to be a masterpiece, have you learned nothing from the previous Gens?
Gen 4 is bad compared to Gen 5
Gen 6 is bad compared to Gen 7
If you want a Pokémon game with Witcher 3-level graphics or whatever, wait until Gen 9 or 10.

And unless you're going to complete the Pokédex, there's no reason to play the base versions over the upper ones.
Ruby and Sapphire are bad because Emerald exists.
Diamond and Pearl are bad because Platinum exists.
Sun and Moon are bad because Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon exists.

So, you would rather pay $60 for a Pokémon Spear then pay $30 for a DLC? If yes, then don't bother complaing after choosing the obviously worse option.

The previous Pokémon games weren't the sunshine and rainbows you think they are. Gen 2 is a Master of None that introduced the worst feature of the entire series (Transfer Only Pokémon), Pokémon Crystal did NOTHING to fix the G/S's flaws, yet people say this Generation is the Gold standard for Pokémon.

And that's not getting into how Gen 5 got the same amount of hatred Gen 8 is getting now, don't complain when, in the following years, Pokémon gets infested with Galar fanboys. Genwunners, Unovabortions, Hoennbabes, etc, they are all nostalgia-blinded fans and anyone is being smart by not listening to them.

No I don't expect it to have witcher like graphics. But as far as it is now, it is little more than a glorified 3DS game. The graphics and animations ARE subpar. Before the DLC half of the old pokemon were wiped plus a ton of moves. But the worst part is Gamfreak blatantly lying about the reason they were cut. They claimed it was to make better models (while all old mons have copied wireframes from the 3DS games and the moves are less interactive than those in Battle Revolution). And "balancing reasons" while they basically added every legendary back in the 2nd DLC.

They should've just admitted they ran out of time and they did it to meet their deadline. At least the devs of Metroid Prime 4 had the dignity to admit their current product was subpar, announce it and start from scratch. While I do like the new pokemon designs and characters, I wish Gamefreak did the same.
 

Vini310

Well-Known Member
No I don't expect it to have witcher like graphics. But as far as it is now, it is little more than a glorified 3DS game. The graphics and animations ARE subpar. Before the DLC half of the old pokemon were wiped plus a ton of moves. But the worst part is Gamfreak blatantly lying about the reason they were cut. They claimed it was to make better models (while all old mons have copied wireframes from the 3DS games and the moves are less interactive than those in Battle Revolution). And "balancing reasons" while they basically added every legendary back in the 2nd DLC.

They should've just admitted they ran out of time and they did it to meet their deadline. At least the devs of Metroid Prime 4 had the dignity to admit their current product was subpar, announce it and start from scratch. While I do like the new pokemon designs and characters, I wish Gamefreak did the same.
Publishers have control over what developers can say about the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "better animations/balancing" thing was Pokémon Company's doing, and Masuda just had to go with it.

Pokémon Battle Revolution isn't much better, either (looking at you, Typhlosion): recycling models from the GameCube and 64 titles (Colosseum and XD recyled models from Stadium 2, Battle Revolution recyled from XD, do the math).
 
Publishers have control over what developers can say about the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "better animations/balancing" thing was Pokémon Company's doing, and Masuda just had to go with it.

Pokémon Battle Revolution isn't much better, either (looking at you, Typhlosion): recycling models from the GameCube and 64 titles (Colosseum and XD recyled models from Stadium 2, Battle Revolution recyled from XD, do the math).
And yet, those old models looked more interactive and alive than most of the ones we currently have. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded if they just took those wireframes for the first 4 gens and updated the graphics and then made new ones for gens 5-8. Hopefully they'll do a better job in future games and maybe save some time by using the base coding of Sw/Sh so they can invest more in other areas. While I don't think Sw/Sh are terrible games on their own, they're some of the least interesting main games in the entirety of the franchise.

And well, you're probably right about the publishers thing. But even so, as a customer, I don't like being lied to by the franchise I've bought products from for over 20 years. I would've appreciated it if they were at least honest instead of making up half baked excuses.
 

Vini310

Well-Known Member
And yet, those old models looked more interactive and alive than most of the ones we currently have. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded if they just took those wireframes for the first 4 gens and updated the graphics and then made new ones for gens 5-8. Hopefully they'll do a better job in future games and maybe save some time by using the base coding of Sw/Sh so they can invest more in other areas. While I don't think Sw/Sh are terrible games on their own, they're some of the least interesting main games in the entirety of the franchise.

And well, you're probably right about the publishers thing. But even so, as a customer, I don't like being lied to by the franchise I've bought products from for over 20 years. I would've appreciated it if they were at least honest instead of making up half baked excuses.
Publishers are not our friends, they are only interested in money, therefore you should always act with high levels of skepticism when they open thei mouths. Remember when CD Projekt Red said they would never put their employees under crunch? Well, that was a lie, and so was the animtions and Battle Frontier fiascos.
 
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