Do you think Alain defeating ash at the kalos league is rigged?

[Ignition]

Pikachu used QA without any struggling. Then he failed at using a Thunderbolt. Next Ash command Volt Tackle, which obviously fails. He then goes for Iron Tail and only misses because Snivy dodged. Only when he used Electric type moves did it show he was getting exhausted. I don't know who I blame: Ash's not seeing something is wrong with Pikachu or the writers for making Trip unreasonably strong.

If Pikachu vs Snivy doesn't work, Ash vs Cress's Panpour.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Once again the "Ash almost defeated Diantha" argument...
The problem with that argument is that there is no way of knowing how that battle would've ended if Ash didn't pass out (which by itself showed he still had no control over Greninja's transformation yet). Besides, Diantha intention was to just test out Greninja's ability and not actually defeat him or anything. She only got serious near the end, throughout half of the battle Gardevoir wasn't even using her full potential, since she wasn't mega evolved.

Therefore, that battle doesn't prove by any means that he was ever superior to Alain in terms of power.

But even after Gardevoir went serious in the end and went Mega, it still was having a lot of trouble mind you, and even after firing a fully powered up Shadow Ball it was overpowered and knocked down to the ground in pain being covered in bruises.

Not saying that the battle with Diantha's Mega Gardevoir proved by any means that Ash-Greninja was superior to Alain's Mega Charizard X, since Alain's Mega Charizard showed some insane godly feats back in the ME specials, but still, managing to go toe to toe and overpower and Champion's ace Pokemon, that too when it's Mega Evolved, was at least a valid enough reason for many people to think that Ash-Greninja could possibly beat Alain's Mega Charizard X in the KL finals and win Ash a League for the first time.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Pikachu had 2 other moves and Electric is resisted by Grass so having Electric type moves wouldn't have helped

And Latios also resisted Pikachu's Electric type moves.....a freaking Legendary that one compared to a beginner noob's Snivy......and guess what happened?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I don't know who I blame: Ash's not seeing something is wrong with Pikachu or the writers for making Trip unreasonably strong.

They made Trip into a racist, poorly done Paul because of it. Ha ha.

Had Ash actually won then...maybe he would've been a Sawyer except serious.

 

[Ignition]

And Latios also resisted Pikachu's Electric type moves.....a freaking Legendary that one compared to a beginner noob's Snivy......and guess what happened?

Latios took damage from other moves. Hell, the final clash before they fainted was Iron Tail and Luster Purge (?). Latios even put up Light Screen to nullify TB.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Latios took damage from other moves. Hell, the final clash before they fainted was Iron Tail and Luster Purge (?). Latios even put up Light Screen to nullify TB.

Yeah, I mean those 'other moves' were actually Thunderbolts used at close range which are supposed to be ineffective. The final clash was actually between Lustre Purge and Volt Tackle/Iron Tail combo (cutting all the way through Luster Purge and then striking 'BOOM' with Iron Tail). Even though Latios later put on Light Screen to nullify Thunderbolt, it still ended in a draw.

Pretty sure that a Thunderbolt from 'this level of Pikachu' would instantly fry a noob Snivy of all things.

 

[Genaller]

Once again the "Ash almost defeated Diantha" argument...
The problem with that argument is that there is no way of knowing how that battle would've ended if Ash didn't pass out (which by itself showed he still had no control over Greninja's transformation yet). Besides, Diantha intention was to just test out Greninja's ability and not actually defeat him or anything. She only got serious near the end, throughout half of the battle Gardevoir wasn't even using her full potential, since she wasn't mega evolved.

Therefore, that battle doesn't prove by any means that he was ever superior to Alain in terms of power.

They are treated as that region's strongest trainers, as they should be, due to their title.

But the fact Ash was able to land a hit on her doesn't prove by any means that he was superior to Alain or even Diantha, since a) that battle was incomplete b) Alain never fought against Diantha so it is impossible to know if he would do less damage than Ash did to her.

It did prove that he got stronger since, before the XY and Z series, he wasn't able to do too much to a champion (which is probably why you think they are god-like beings, when they were actually just far more experienced than Ash).

Not that I think any of Ash’s feats justify him being better than Alain especially given MC-X’s insane feats (which make him the strongest non-Champion Mega Ace trainer Pokémon in existence barring maybe Lysandre’s MRG) though I’m really curious as to seeing whether you actually have a respectable counter to my claim of Ash-Greninja being definitively in the Champion Base Ace and E4 Mega Ace and hence decisively Ash’s strongest Pokémon pre-SM https. https://forums.serebii.net/threads/ash-greninja-battle-viability-assessment-compilation.662620/

 

[satopi]

They made Trip into a racist, poorly done Paul because of it. Ha ha.

Had Ash actually won then...maybe he would've been a Sawyer except serious.

I don't think Trip was a clone of anyone, especially not Paul. Him laughing at Ash being from the boonies is just a condescending way to make himself feel superior over Ash. Their rivalry was completely one sided anyway. Trip paid no attention to Ash, he had more interest in capturing pictures than battling until further into the saga where Trip started seeing Ash in a positive light. (Probably after both of them met Alder) While Ash kept bothering him about battling together. They didn't battle that much throughout the saga before DA! decided to ditch all their good rivals for no apparent reason but to explore the islands.

 

[keepitsimple]

trip isn't racist lol

 

[Ignition]

Yeah, I mean those 'other moves' were actually Thunderbolts used at close range which are supposed to be ineffective. The final clash was actually between Lustre Purge and Volt Tackle/Iron Tail combo (cutting all the way through Luster Purge and then striking 'BOOM' with Iron Tail. Even though Latios later put on Light Screen to nullify Thunderbolt, it still ended in a draw.

Pretty sure that a Thunderbolt from 'this level of Pikachu' would instantly fry a noob Snivy of all things.

Oh, definitely. It'd be ironic overkill

 

[345ash-greninja]

Oh, definitely. It'd be ironic overkill

I wonder why it wasn't that way in that battle TBH. Making Trip, a beginner trainer, a poor man's Paul from the get go...........I mean rather give him the Sawyer treatment (who initially got totally overwhelmed by Ash due to the massive gap of experience between them), which looks more realistic.

 

[Ignition]

I wonder why it wasn't that way in that battle TBH. Making Trip, a beginner trainer, a poor man's Paul from the get go...........I mean rather give him the Sawyer treatment (who initially got totally overwhelmed by Ash due to the massive gap of experience between them), which looks more realistic.

^This. He clearly had a similar thing going with him taking pictures and pointing out flaws of people's battling style (I.e Oshawott's Aqua Jet being inaccurate because he kept his eyes closed). Plus we only saw his Snivy progress, not him or his other team (seriously, he showcased Serperior and Conkeldurr but ditched his other team members).

 

[AznKei]

trip isn't racist lol

It's more of a socio-cultural bashing because Ash came from Kanto and Trip think lowly of that region.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

It's more of a socio-cultural bashing because Ash came from Kanto and Trip think lowly of that region.

Oh. Maybe I was wrong. I just imagined Kantonians being loose versions of Japanese people while Unovans were proud Americans or something.

 

[Ash-Pikachu]

Once again the "Ash almost defeated Diantha" argument...
The problem with that argument is that there is no way of knowing how that battle would've ended if Ash didn't pass out (which by itself showed he still had no control over Greninja's transformation yet). Besides, Diantha intention was to just test out Greninja's ability and not actually defeat him or anything. She only got serious near the end, throughout half of the battle Gardevoir wasn't even using her full potential, since she wasn't mega evolved.

Therefore, that battle doesn't prove by any means that he was ever superior to Alain in terms of power.

This is a cop out. We've witnessed Elite Fours and Champions battle against trainers in the past and at no point did a trainer ever leave any of them in awe due to their battle power.

For example, Ash vs Agatha. Pikachu initially gets the edge but loses decisively. Ash vs. Bertha, Torterra sends Hippowdon flying with a super effective leaf storm, remains composed, and subsequently defeats Torterra decisively. Sceptile vs. Regirock, Ash inadvertently cheats and manages to cripple Regirock forcing him to kneel and Regirock still one shots Sceptile. All of these Elite trainers tested Ash's combat power and despite losing initially, they manage to defeat Ash when they get serious.

That was not the case with Ash vs. Diantha. When Gardevior mega evolves, the power dynamic still remains the same even after Gardevior legitimately strikes Greninja with a flurry of shadow balls fused together. What implication is there that suggests the battle would've gone any differently given the trend I established in the anime?

 

[keepitsimple]

It's more of a socio-cultural bashing because Ash came from Kanto and Trip think lowly of that region.

You're closer. not Kanto as a whole, Pallet Town specifically. boonies refers to rural country areas. it's insulting sure, but it has nothing to do with race. He's basically calling Ash a hick. Actually I think he uses that wording in the original japanese version.

it's still pretty dumb because Nuvema Town isn't really different from Pallet in that regard but whatever lol

 

[Aquafinna]

You're closer. not Kanto as a whole, Pallet Town specifically. boonies refers to rural country areas. it's insulting sure, but it has nothing to do with race. He's basically calling Ash a hick. Actually I think he uses that wording in the original japanese version.

it's still pretty dumb because Nuvema Town isn't really different from Pallet in that regard but whatever lol

Which is weird within itself because Ash displays no “hick” qualities. I assumed he was talking about Kanto as a whole although because besides Saffron and Celadon City... Kanto is pretty rural compared to other regions

 

[satopi]

Which is weird within itself because Ash displays no “hick” qualities. I assumed he was talking about Kanto as a whole although because besides Saffron and Celadon City... Kanto is pretty rural compared to other regions

He was talking about Pallet Town which is a small, rural town. Kanto as a whole, is a region rather than an entire countryside.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Does Alain come from the boonies, though. If he wants to be an Anakin Skywalker, we must know his home and parents. Especially his parents, who knew their son had a hundred friends till he went aggro. Would make a lot of sense.

 

[AznKei]

You're closer. not Kanto as a whole, Pallet Town specifically. boonies refers to rural country areas. it's insulting sure, but it has nothing to do with race. He's basically calling Ash a hick. Actually I think he uses that wording in the original japanese version.

it's still pretty dumb because Nuvema Town isn't really different from Pallet in that regard but whatever lol

Yeah, I originally thought it was about a city boy mocking a rural boy when Trip said that Ash came from the boonies, but then I saw he came from Nuvema Town, so I was confused. So I assumed that mocking a whole region would make more sense.