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Do you think BDSP is an underrated Pokemon game?

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
One could probably make an argument that FRLG are the worst remakes though, that was 1:1 also but lacked animated sprites, stopped evolutions, restricted transfers until post game and even then required a cumbersome mini quest.

Ehh, kind of, but most of this was a product of its time. Remakes and third versions didn't quite shake things up as much then as they did in games like HGSS and ORAS, so expecting FRLG to completely overhaul RBY was perhaps too lofty an expectation. FRLG did go above and beyond by giving RBY a lengthy post game experience in the form of the Sevii Islands, which is more content than I could say for the likes of LGPE, BDSP, and arguably ORAS (whether or not FRLG or ORAS has the better post game largely depends on your preferences). Animated sprites also weren't as much a regular thing back then, Crystal was the only game prior to FRLG that had them. As for the stopped evolutions, well LGPE and BDSP are worse than that, as not only can you not evolve them before the post game, you can't evolve them period. Anything that wasn't in the original RBY simply does not exist in LGPE and likewise anything that didn't exist in DP did not exist in BDSP. So that much is an argument against FRLG being the worst.

I'd also argue HGSS is slightly overrated too since it runs off Gen 4's slow af engine

Personally doesn't bother me, but for those that are bothered, again, this is a product of their time. Remakes and third versions always ran on that gen's engine, so if HGSS came out in 3rd or 5th gen, for example, they wouldn't have had this problem.

I also think ORAS was ruined Gen 3 with all the mega BS

Megas were the least of ORAS' problems IMO and I actually think Megas improved ORAS. ORAS' biggest issue is that it totally ignored Emerald content and didn't feel like the definitive version of this game that a remake should be. If a 9 year old third version that's no longer on the market is better than your remake, that undermines the incentive to actually buy the remake.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Ehh, kind of, but most of this was a product of its time. Remakes and third versions didn't quite shake things up as much then as they did in games like HGSS and ORAS, so expecting FRLG to completely overhaul RBY was perhaps too lofty an expectation. FRLG did go above and beyond by giving RBY a lengthy post game experience in the form of the Sevii Islands, which is more content than I could say for the likes of LGPE, BDSP, and arguably ORAS (whether or not FRLG or ORAS has the better post game largely depends on your preferences). Animated sprites also weren't as much a regular thing back then, Crystal was the only game prior to FRLG that had them. As for the stopped evolutions, well LGPE and BDSP are worse than that, as not only can you not evolve them before the post game, you can't evolve them period. Anything that wasn't in the original RBY simply does not exist in LGPE and likewise anything that didn't exist in DP did not exist in BDSP. So that much is an argument against FRLG being the worst.



Personally doesn't bother me, but for those that are bothered, again, this is a product of their time. Remakes and third versions always ran on that gen's engine, so if HGSS came out in 3rd or 5th gen, for example, they wouldn't have had this problem.



Megas were the least of ORAS' problems IMO and I actually think Megas improved ORAS. ORAS' biggest issue is that it totally ignored Emerald content and didn't feel like the definitive version of this game that a remake should be. If a 9 year old third version that's no longer on the market is better than your remake, that undermines the incentive to actually buy the remake.
In all honesty I think that BDSP turned out the way it did partly because of Legends Arceus.

I think if we had just got Brilliant Diamond & Shinning Pearl and never got Legends Arceus then BDSP would have probably be treated similarly to how previous remakes were treated.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
In all honesty I think that BDSP turned out the way it did partly because of Legends Arceus.

I think if we had just got Brilliant Diamond & Shinning Pearl and never got Legends Arceus then BDSP would have probably be treated similarly to how previous remakes were treated.

Nah, probably not. I think Game Freak/TPC wants remakes to go in this direction because of nostalgia and profits, it likely has nothing to do with LA. You can see that BDSP is following the same direction as ORAS and LGPE with them cutting content from third versions/remakes released in between, LGPE trying to match RBY's graphical style instead of using SM or SwSh's engine, and LGPE excluding Pokemon that released after RBY. BDSP probably would not have been that different if we didn't have LA, we'd just have even more complaints about them cutting corners with remakes since there'd be no ambitious reimagining releasing alongside it. If anything I think the opposite is true, they released LA because they want the traditional remakes to be religiously similar to the original games and a game like LA is an outlet for the kinds of ideas they used to include in games like HGSS and ORAS.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I think that LA was more of an experimental game to see how players would respond to a more open world Pokémon environment and a less linear format. There were several things that clearly made it into SV in a modified way. GF seemed to want to test the water and get players used to this type of open world.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Is BDSP overrated? No. Is it underrated? Also no.

They're just OK. I don't mind that the story is pretty faithful to DP. There are some things that I would have liked from the Platinum story and post-game and post-Gen4 evolutions that I would have liked in game (like Sylveon), but it's not a deal breaker for me. And I like some of the QoL improvements like not needing HMs and adding the Fairy type.

But more importantly for me - BDSP was a way to share Sinnoh with my kids in a way that is:
  1. On a more modern platform that they are familiar with
  2. Does not require me to buy each of them a legitimate copy of DP or Platinum.
I'll gladly pay the $60 for one copy of BD or SP that they can share on one Switch instead of paying $120 per copy of Platinum. And no...I'm not getting it from a random ROM site.

LGPE trying to match RBY's graphical style instead of using SM or SwSh's engine
Point of order...

The SM engine would not have run on the Switch without heavy modifications to support the new hardware APIs...and IIRC, dataminers found that the SwSh engine was based on the LGPE engine.

If anything I think the opposite is true, they released LA because they want the traditional remakes to be religiously similar to the original games and a game like LA is an outlet for the kinds of ideas they used to include in games like HGSS and ORAS.
No. They released PLA to get some real-world testing and feedback on the changes that would be coming with SV.
 

Tobunarimo

Bird-Brain Banter
Honestly you're not going to have a bunch of people chip in and tell you you're right on this: the community has unanimously agreed that these are the worst Pokémon games to have ever been released alongside Let's Go and there's nothing you can say to convince them otherwise.

Especially considering Legends Arceus was announced in the very same Direct right after - which everyone and their mother agreed that it was the game that we should've gotten for the Switch from the start - instead of Let's Go, instead of Sword and Shield, and ESPECIALLY instead of BDSP.

These games didn't do much other than tick off a box that there was a remake.

Granted, there wasn't much to add to it to make it any better other than include Pokemon from newer generations, which considering GameFreak's stance on limiting the Pokedex for whatever reason, meant that nothing after Gen 4 was going to be included. Not that that matters much considering nothing originating from Gens 1-4 Evolves into anything from Gen 5-8 aside from Sylveon, Kleavor, Ursaluna, and Wyrdeer (Every other cross-generation evolution is a regional form)

They could've ADDED those new evolutions and the regional forms, but they decided it was best to stick with what was in Diamond and Pearl - and they likely weren't going to reinvent the wheel to accommodate the issues that the fanbase had with the originals either (lack of Fire Types, Pokémon Variety, Gym composition, etc.)

Nah, probably not. I think Game Freak/TPC wants remakes to go in this direction because of nostalgia and profits, it likely has nothing to do with LA. You can see that BDSP is following the same direction as ORAS and LGPE with them cutting content from third versions/remakes released in between, LGPE trying to match RBY's graphical style instead of using SM or SwSh's engine, and LGPE excluding Pokemon that released after RBY. BDSP probably would not have been that different if we didn't have LA, we'd just have even more complaints about them cutting corners with remakes since there'd be no ambitious reimagining releasing alongside it. If anything I think the opposite is true, they released LA because they want the traditional remakes to be religiously similar to the original games and a game like LA is an outlet for the kinds of ideas they used to include in games like HGSS and ORAS.

I think that LA was more of an experimental game to see how players would respond to a more open world Pokémon environment and a less linear format. There were several things that clearly made it into SV in a modified way. GF seemed to want to test the water and get players used to this type of open world.

I'd make the argument that BDSP were probably intended to be like Sword and Shield, and that PLA was more or less just built from what little assets they decided to recover and repurpose - and then the BDSP we got were sort of just created to be a buffer.

I mean, you'd think giving Dialga and Palkia Origin Formes would make a more interesting incentive to sell some remakes, especially after everything dealing with ORAS in giving Groudon and Kyogre Primal Reversion.

However, something down the line probably caused the project to split - the pandemic might have been part of the impact, it might not - and we got the games that we got.


I'd argue though that PLA may have dampened Scarlet & Violet's impact in being an open-world game (Granted, not that much considering the sales) - As PLA's trailer held some serious Breath of the Wild vibes despite it not being an open-world game, though the comments in the announcement trailer would say otherwise. Meanwhile Scarlet and Violet's reveal while it had Pokémon roaming the overworld didn't give the impression that it was open-world until it was explicitly said in the press release that it was.
 

raichu27

Well-Known Member
I think it's a great game. I like that we can use the Fairy type and some of the new moves in there. Disappointed that we can't use regional forms or newer Pokemon like we could in ORAS, though.
 

Kaede45

Member
I bought BDSP, I liked it well enough, but I kept hoping they would reverse their dumb decision to exclude Pokemon from later generations...

As it stands, I can't help but feel like I wasted money on this game... I bought it brand new for $60 & I highly recommend nobody buy it for full price! BDSP is worth $25, maybe $30 max.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
They're rated just fine. One could probably make an argument that FRLG are the worst remakes though, that was 1:1 also but lacked animated sprites, stopped evolutions, restricted transfers until post game and even then required a cumbersome mini quest. People just seem to have nostalgia goggles for them (I'd also argue HGSS is slightly overrated too since it runs off Gen 4's slow af engine, I also think ORAS was ruined Gen 3 with all the mega BS)
Your comment about other remakes here don’t really translate for me. The HGSS comment about the Gen 4 engine really sticks out to me, though. I’ve always found “slowness” criticism of DP to be a little overdone, so maybe that’s part of this, but HGSS being played at a little slower pace because some battle animations and overworld walking speed are slower doesn’t exactly take anything away from the content. I don’t know that a game should be considered overrated just because the pacing is a little slower. Compare HGSS to BDSP by what each added on top of the original games - it’s a rather extreme distinction.

No. They released PLA to get some real-world testing and feedback on the changes that would be coming with SV.
Do you have a link to a statement from Game Freak that confirms this, or is this just an assumption? I’ve seen more and more lately of this idea that Legends was somehow just a test run for SV, but it was developed largely at the same time, approaches world design completely differently, and includes tons of things that were never incorporated into SV. It seems both dismissive of Legends and contrary to its completely unique story/setting foundations to say its purpose was to test the waters on Scarlet and Violet.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Do you have a link to a statement from Game Freak that confirms this, or is this just an assumption? I’ve seen more and more lately of this idea that Legends was somehow just a test run for SV, but it was developed largely at the same time, approaches world design completely differently, and includes tons of things that were never incorporated into SV. It seems both dismissive of Legends and contrary to its completely unique story/setting foundations to say its purpose was to test the waters on Scarlet and Violet.

There is probably some level of truth to the notion that Legends was meant to test the waters for open world gameplay, everything they've done since SwSh has gradually transitioned towards that style of gameplay. I don't think that's the whole truth though. There appear to be some unwritten rules on how Game Freak/TPC develop remakes that prevent them from making a remake as bold and groundbreaking as LA (probably because they intentionally want the games to be highly similar to appeal to nostalgia) so they had to make a separate game to realize these kinds of ideas to still provide the DP experience. In addition to not being able to make the open world areas, I don't think we would've seen the Hisuian variants and evolutions we did in BDSP. They are largely against adding Pokemon from newer generations to the remakes, or even adding older Pokemon that weren't in the original regional dex to the remake's regional dex. At best you might get some newer Pokemon in the National Dex post game, but with LGPE and BDSP they don't even want to do that much anymore and pretty much any species that didn't exist in the original doesn't exist in the remakes (probably because of Dexit). So you wouldn't have seen something like a Wyrdeer or an Ursaluna or a Hisuian Avalugg in BDSP, and definitely not in the Sinnoh Dex so they wouldn't have been nearly as prominent. So yeah, even if we don't have official confirmation from Game Freak as to why they decided to make a separate game, we can piece together their actions in terms of how they've handled past remakes and Switch games to come up with a pretty strong theory as to the true reasons.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Do you have a link to a statement from Game Freak that confirms this, or is this just an assumption?
It’s an assumption on my part. My apologies for writing that as if it was a confirmed statement.

I’ve seen more and more lately of this idea that Legends was somehow just a test run for SV, but it was developed largely at the same time, approaches world design completely differently, and includes tons of things that were never incorporated into SV. It seems both dismissive of Legends and contrary to its completely unique story/setting foundations to say its purpose was to test the waters on Scarlet and Violet.
I don’t consider it dismissive to say that PLA could have been a field test for the technology used in SV. Going from the SwSH DLC to a full open world game is a big jump. It brings new technical challenges and gameplay experiences. PLA allowed Game Freak to get some real world feedback on the game engine and how Pokemon players interacted with a more open world while still having enough time in the SV dev cycle to make tweaks or adjustments if needed.

That doesn’t take away from how awesome or successful PLA is.
 
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