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Do you think regression is coming?

Do you think regression is coming?


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Honestly. Or that popularity gives characters superiority over other characters.
Pretty much.

And let's not forget that despite being "unpopular", Iris still got her own special episode.

Serena got...oh wait, she got nothing. Whoops.

In any case, I wouldn't expect Iris to make cameos in the future given how busy and popular her seiyuu is.
Same goes for Cilan.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Yeah I think cameos and guest appearances are determined by if the VA is currently available or able to voice a certain character. I doubt popularity has anything to do with it.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
I'm sorry, but I don't see how it would be disrespectful to Lillie especially if it has some potential for Serena to actually get some development that doesn't directly involve Ash. Maybe it could be a build up for a Serena return arc with some changes to her character and team and maybe add more interesting character interactions with the current group (that doesn't involve a love triangle or anything like that).

Because why waste a SM episode if Serena already HAD a chance to get her own episode? Forget Lillie (I change my mind) it's disrespectful to the entire cast. It's characters like Mallow and Soph who could use that episode instead of giving it to an old character who already had her window of opportunity. A cameo is possible but it seems ridiculous to give Serena a special when they openly decided to give one to Sycamore and Alexia over her.


Pretty much.

And let's not forget that despite being "unpopular", Iris still got her own special episode.

Serena got...oh wait, she got nothing. Whoops.

In any case, I wouldn't expect Iris to make cameos in the future given how busy and popular her seiyuu is.
Same goes for Cilan.

Exactly. Hopefully her VA is available although :/
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Pretty much.

And let's not forget that despite being "unpopular", Iris still got her own special episode.

Serena got...oh wait, she got nothing. Whoops.

In any case, I wouldn't expect Iris to make cameos in the future given how busy and popular her seiyuu is.
Same goes for Cilan.

Well if you keep on deliberately ignoring that SM isn't over yet and there is plenty of time left for Serena to have a reappearance in the series, then sure, you can say that.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Well if you keep on deliberately ignoring that SM isn't over yet and there is plenty of time left for Serena to have a reappearance in the series, then sure, you can say that.

There's a difference between a cameo and special js. They didn't claim Serena wasn't coming back at all.
 
Well if you keep on deliberately ignoring that SM isn't over yet and there is plenty of time left for Serena to have a reappearance in the series, then sure, you can say that.
I'm merely talking about the present situation. Right now, Serena has yet to make a cameo or get her own episode, which is embarrassing for a "popular" character.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Because why waste a SM episode if Serena already HAD a chance to get her own episode? Forget Lillie (I change my mind) it's disrespectful to the entire cast. It's characters like Mallow and Soph who could use that episode instead of giving it to an old character who already had her window of opportunity. A cameo is possible but it seems ridiculous to give Serena a special when they openly decided to give one to Sycamore and Alexia over her.
The main cast, except for Lillie and to an extent Lana, is hardly getting any focus anyway either way. So I don't see how Serena's return for a couple of episodes or so would rob 'precious' chances of them getting focus/development lol.

There's a difference between a cameo and special js. They didn't claim Serena wasn't coming back at all.
Read Yukki's comment LMAO. She clearly said 'Serena got nothing'.

I'm merely talking about the present situation. Right now, Serena has yet to make a cameo or get her own episode, which is embarrassing for a "popular" character.

Which is pretty much nonsense, since without knowing whether Serena would appear in the SM series afterwards or not you are already saying that it's 'embarrasing'.
 
Oh boy. This is gonna be hella fun.

I'm smart enough to know every child isn't the same and has different taste. Pokemon SM is no more unintelligent than TTG yet it's the most popular show on CN but I disgress. And Serena isn't getting a special. I'm sorry to burst any fantasy you've been conducting but SM is already into its second year and it would be disrespectful to Lillie (the current Poke girl) to randomly to make an unasked episode for Serena. The writers had their chance to give her a special but decided Alexia and Sycamore deserved it more. And Brock has nothing to do with the Pokegirls since it's harder to replace him but to this date popularity has never been able to save a Pokegirl from getting the boot. If popularity decided who stays or not, Dawn would still be here and the writers would of listened to the sad numerous polls begging Serena to go to Alola.

Then you should be smart enough to know that individuals don't matter. It's as a whole. And once again, you blatantly ignore the fact that 10-12 year old kids are much more mature than say 20 years ago.

IRONY. OH THE IRONY. FYI, SM'S CAST IS SO HALF-**SED AND UNDERDEVELOPED BECAUSE OF LILLIE. This is the biggest BS in this thread ever. Oh sh**, it's disrespectful! You know what's more disrespectful? The fact that you have the guts to call Serena having a special that would probably be in Hoenn disrespectful when Lillie having 10x development compared to the other members of the cast is much much more disrespectful.

How TF would an episode that isn't in SM be disrespectful to SM or Lillie?! Wtf? I'm not asking for a cameo lol. Like anyone would want all of Serena's development to be scrapped if she appears in the hellhole that is SM...

I like how people here seem to think popular = always good.

Spoiler alert: no, it is not.

Where TF did I say that? I never said a character being more popular than another character equals better lol. Stop shoving words in my mouth lol.

Honestly. Or that popularity gives characters superiority over other characters.

Well it definetly improves a character's chance of coming back lol. Or is that much too disrespectful?

SM still has battles, and decent ones too. Most of the excess SM cuts off is the dull or one-sided battles like the TR ones that take up over half of the other series and add barely anything but a half hearted climax, instead using a lot of that time to make more creative character-driven stories. It's not like they aren't still using their Pokemon creatively in most of these anyway, just not in the same formulaic manner of commanding attacks against antagonists/rivals and usually winning easily or having the plot bend over for them.

People excused Serena having a lacklustre record by claiming her character wasn't revolved around good battling and performances but her actual character, so in a sense wouldn't have SM's format of personality driven stories over constant battles/tournaments/etc have worked for her too? To focus on what many consider the important part of her?

I do agree that SM's approach isn't perfect and the next series should maybe try for more of a balance, but I still think it's made an absolutely vital step in character writing.

Remember that Gladion battle where TR interruped?

Yeah... Oh the irony.

And no, compared to XY, the battles aren't as good or as prevalent. And despite having that time to create "character driven stories " they still can't develop their characters! Funny...

I said the overall core of the show was that. And the core of the show is Ash. Semblance.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how it would be disrespectful to Lillie especially if it has some potential for Serena to actually get some development that doesn't directly involve Ash. Maybe it could be a build up for a Serena return arc with some changes to her character and team and maybe add more interesting character interactions with the current group (that doesn't involve a love triangle or anything like that).

This. Serena in hoenn would be great.

Pretty much.

And let's not forget that despite being "unpopular", Iris still got her own special episode.

Serena got...oh wait, she got nothing. Whoops.

In any case, I wouldn't expect Iris to make cameos in the future given how busy and popular her seiyuu is.
Same goes for Cilan.

Whoops. Let's not the forget the fact that the series Iris was in, wasn't really the best series ever.

Because why waste a SM episode if Serena already HAD a chance to get her own episode? Forget Lillie (I change my mind) it's disrespectful to the entire cast. It's characters like Mallow and Soph who could use that episode instead of giving it to an old character who already had her window of opportunity. A cameo is possible but it seems ridiculous to give Serena a special when they openly decided to give one to Sycamore and Alexia over her.




Exactly. Hopefully her VA is available although :/

Or we could delete Lillie. Actually scratch that cause Lillie is the only decent character in SM, while also insuring that the other members of SM don't get development. So blame main girl Lillie, not Serena.

Like they would ever give those characters development anyway. Lol.

I'm merely talking about the present situation. Right now, Serena has yet to make a cameo or get her own episode, which is embarrassing for a "popular" character.

Once again, you still don't know anything about the state of Serena. For all we know, she comes back in Gen 8.

The main cast, except for Lillie and to an extent Lana, is hardly getting any focus anyway either way. So I don't see how Serena's return for a couple of episodes or so would rob 'precious' chances of them getting focus/development lol.


Read Yukki's comment LMAO. She clearly said 'Serena got nothing'.



Which is pretty much nonsense, since without knowing whether Serena would appear in the SM series afterwards or not you are already saying that it's 'embarrasing'.

Irony and what seems like random blindness is very very prevalent and I laugh when I read the comments by AshxSatoshi.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
The main cast, except for Lillie and to an extent Lana, is hardly getting any focus anyway either way. So I don't see how Serena's return for a couple of episodes or so would rob 'precious' chances of them getting focus/development lol.

So the conclusion of characters having less focus, is to give older characters more focus? The whole point of the Poke girls cameo is to help provide development/focus to the current cast (ie May and Dawn in the Wallace Cup and Dawn giving Iris advice on Dragonite). So quite frankly yes I'd preferred her to not get a bunch of episodes to herself doing nothing and probably lusting over Ash. Also keep in mind I was discussing it being disrespectful to the main cast if Serena got SOLO specials during the SM era and not just a plain cameo which almost everyone got.
 
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So the conclusion of characters having less focus, is to give older characters more focus? The whole point of the Poke girls cameo is to help provide development/focus to the current cast (ie May and Dawn in the Wallace Cup and Dawn giving Iris advice on Dragonite). So quite frankly no I'd preferred her to not get a bunch of episodes to herself doing nothing and probably lusting over Ash. Also keep in mind I was discussing it being disrespectful to the main cast if Serena got SOLO specials during the SM era and not just a plain cameo which almost everyone got.

Oh don't worry. No one wants Serena to come back in SM. Would be a waste of the best Pokegirl to be in the s*it show that is SM. She wouldn't fit in at all. So no need to worry. And FYI, Serena can have plenty development in Hoenn. Espicially if Dawn's in Hoenn. Probably give her better development compared to the rest of SM's cast

Lol, again. It's not like SM is interesting and or going to develop characters anyway.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Looking at it, regression stemmed from BW games' soft reboot feel. We had over 100 new Pokemon and were unable to deal with old ones until the post game. Really, the anime wanted to match the games. The problem is that Ash was the protagonist. Sure, I don't like Ash, so my bias might shine through, but why Ash? The same reason he's a preachy Black Hole Sue in XY(Z) and a competent goofball in SM. He is less of a character and more of a set of lines people project themselves as. He's a malleable marketing tool. So that's why I believe he's going to regress one day.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Oh boy. This is gonna be hella fun.



Then you should be smart enough to know that individuals don't matter. It's as a whole. And once again, you blatantly ignore the fact that 10-12 year old kids are much more mature than say 20 years ago.
Yeah I'm not arguing about this.

IRONY. OH THE IRONY. FYI, SM'S CAST IS SO HALF-**SED AND UNDERDEVELOPED BECAUSE OF LILLIE.
It's almost like Lillie got 11 episodes of focus because she's like the daughter of the antagonist or something? You know what's even weirder? I think she might be the sister of Ash's rival also! Now why would an arc focusing on family drama include Lillie, if she wasn't apart of the family? Oh wait!
Irony and what seems like random blindness is very very prevalent and I laugh when I read the comments by AshxSatoshi.
Ditto.


Oh don't worry. No one wants Serena to come back in SM. Would be a waste of the best Pokegirl to be in the s*it show that is SM. She wouldn't fit in at all. So no need to worry. And FYI, Serena can have plenty development in Hoenn. Espicially if Dawn's in Hoenn. Probably give her better development compared to the rest of SM's cast

Lol, again. It's not like SM is interesting and or going to develop characters anyway.

Yeah hopefully Serena gets the Hoenn spinoff she rightfully deserves! Wait on it! Also Dawn's in Johto according to BW since the Wallace Cup was there.
 
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Yeah I'm not arguing about this.

It's almost like Lillie got 11 episodes of focus because she's like the daughter of the antagonist or something? You know what's even weirder? I think she might be the sister of Ash's rival also! Now why would an arc focusing on family drama include Lillie, if she wasn't apart of the family? Oh wait!
Ditto




Yeah hopefully Serena gets the Hoenn spinoff she rightfully deserves! Wait on it

Hey. hey.

I'm not sure if you realize this....












But Lillie is 1/6 of SM's cast. Doesn't matter if she's more important. Guess what, SM has a responsibility to develop all of its cast. And guess what... It hasn't! I don't give a f*** if Lillie is Jesus, SM has to develop its characters and hiding behind your terrible arguement just diminishes SM even more. So keep doing it!

Yeah don't worry. I've got boundless amounts of patience. I'm watching SM ain't I?
 
But Lillie is 1/6 of SM's cast. Doesn't matter if she's more important. Guess what, SM has a responsibility to develop all of its cast. And guess what... It hasn't! I don't give a f*** if Lillie is Jesus, SM has to develop its characters and hiding behind your terrible arguement just diminishes SM even more. So keep doing it!

Yeah don't worry. I've got boundless patience. I'm watching SM ain't I?
Are you really such a fanboy you are willing to go off-topic just to talk trash about a series you dislike?

Please get back on topic.

p.s. if you don't like a series, don't watch it. it's an option that exists.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Another argument I've seen against regression is that Gen 8 might be different from SM and renders the whole debate moot.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Remember that Gladion battle where TR interruped?

Yeah... Oh the irony.

And no, compared to XY, the battles aren't as good or as prevalent. And despite having that time to create "character driven stories " they still can't develop their characters! Funny...

I said the overall core of the show was that. And the core of the show is Ash. Semblance.

The difference is that SM has had TR or some other plot device interrupt a handful of episodes, while series like AG, DP or XY had this happen in almost HALF OR MORE of their episodes. Any third act that didn't go into the usual battle routine (or even just had a battle that was too even handed and they couldn't be bothered to write a proper climax for) it would be interrupted for the usual quick curb stomp and everything suddenly resolved setup. Hell even some of the TR interruptions needed interruptions themselves because they were too competent for the twerps and they needed another plot device to make it easy for them. The twerps didn't come off as effective or vibrant protagonists when every episode had to be skewed into the same exact setup where they didn't have to do anything different and it's especially not good writing where nearly every third act has to be cut off or made completely irrelevant to the previous story just to accustom to that.

It's debatable whether XY is better battle wise to me. Yeah maybe the ratio is slightly better but it was still often just the main battles like the gyms most of the time, with nearly everything else being a curb stomp or cop-out with no resolution (eg. most of Serena's battles, or the times they fought a powerful wild Pokemon). The gyms themselves might have been better matches, but a tenth of the show having good battles over the rest being repetitive anti climaxes where the twerps are practically pinball protagonists isn't impressive. Besides that I think SM's matches are often still inventive and the more spaced out usage of the good ones over having tons of bad ones in-between makes me less apathetic about them.

Ash still battles enough for me to consider him a battler in SM, just he tries other stuff and is a versatile protagonist. Again better balance could be done, but it's better than spending EVERY episode doing battles even if loads of them are crappy and make Ash look boring.
 
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SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Ash is the face of the anime, so he having VA issues wouldn't be the same as May (tho I want to see her again).
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Ash is the face of the anime, so he having VA issues wouldn't be the same as May (tho I want to see her again).

The Japanese edit has replaced VAs before (Giovanni stuck even after his original VA passed away, and Bonnie had a substitute VA while her standard one took pregnancy leave), there are times they prioritise a character is too important to bow out, just the decision of changing their voice is taken much more gingerly than it ended up being over here in the west.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
The Japanese edit has replaced VAs before (Giovanni stuck even after his original VA passed away, and Bonnie had a substitute VA while her standard one took pregnancy leave), there are times they prioritise a character is too important to bow out, just the decision of changing their voice is taken much more gingerly than it ended up being over here in the west.

I think the biggest difference is that, in a way, Rica and Ash are synonymous, really. At least in Japan, can you really take Rica out of the equation and not Ash? It's different from a pregnancy leave or a character who tends to appear once every 100 episodes most of the time.
 

Satoshi & Touko

Peanuts aren't just a nut.
Totally see a regression coming at some point. Mind you I don't see one to the point of BW, but I'm sure one will happen soon enough.
 
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