Do you think that LGPE is an underrated Pokemon game?

[Sαpphire]

I do sometimes think that LGPE are somewhat underrated, but it's important to recognize that it's not a black and white situation (no pun intended).

I think that LGPE are enjoyable and feel like classic Pokémon games. I didn't have an issue with them being restricted to 151 (really 152/3?) species, I didn't have an issue with them limiting wild battles, and I love the look and feel of the game - visually, it's still my favorite. I like the Master Trainers, and the standard QoL improvements that bring the Yellow concept closer to other more recent titles are nice. Overall, I like the games.

The issues come in when we start to talk about what the games meant in a broader perspective. There are a lot of fans who did not enjoy the games, and who were vocally opposed to them from the announcement and through the release. I, personally, dismissed a lot of their concerns - that limiting the dex could set a bad precedent for the series, that removing wild battles was removing something too inherent to the series' identity, that not including the Sevii Islands was tantamount to removing content from Kanto, that the games being targeted at a slightly younger audience could make them difficult for older players to enjoy.

The way I engaged in that discourse, even on this site, is one of my biggest regrets as a fan of this franchise, and the callous attitude that I and many others took in dismissing critics of these games was embarrassingly misplaced. I remember clearly dismissing concerns from members like @Bolt the Cat as unfounded - and now in 2022, I look back and I was wrong on almost every single count. I actively regret that every time I have a discussion about the state of the franchise and the negativity in the community, because defending LGPE was where I directly contributed to where things are now.

Just to go over what some of those things were: In the time since release, we've seen that the dex restriction and move restriction probably did start to set a precedent for the rest of the main series, and those are two things that I think are honestly shameful. No game released in this franchise has had all the Pokémon or their moves since USUM, and even Legends: Arceus probably won't. We've also seen that the removal of enhanced version content is still and probably always going to be par for the course for remakes when BDSP didn't have virtually any of the things that Platinum brought to Sinnoh, and worse, that remakes may now remain restricted to species that were available in their original counterparts - instead of incorporating everything and being treated as truly legitimate new entries in the series, as HGSS and ORAS were. Further, they removed abilities, held items, breeding, and eggs, some of the things I'm personally going to miss from Legends (which also, allegedly, removes those things), all of which feel like important pieces of what the series had become by 2018 and what it's been since twenty years ago with Ruby and Sapphire. I get now what people were worried about because it arguably did come to pass.

Further, I think the way they're considered to be core series titles by Game Freak also means that there's a standard that they should be held against, and as much as I enjoy them, I don't feel like I can say they met that standard. I get that it's hard to bring both younger and more casual players into the fold and still appease us long-term fans, but LGPE don't feel like they made any effort to appeal to more dedicated existing players for anyone outside of a very specific Gen 1 niche. There are no post-game battle facilities to provide a satisfying and engaging gameplay loop after rolling the credits; there are no new or extra areas to explore beyond a single dungeon, so you've seen it all if you've beaten the game and caught Mewtwo; they don't make much of an effort to flesh out many Kanto characters, with the only notable example I can remember being a scene with Lorelai in a spot she hadn't appeared before; they don't add to or change the Kanto story almost at all. HGSS improved on the Johto experience, adjusting levels and adding the Battle Frontier and adding a Safari Zone and incorporating elements from Crystal. ORAS expanded the Hoenn story with the Delta Episode and added brand new Mega Evolutions, then allowed us to catch old legendaries in all kinds of new places. LGPE... just didn't do anything like that. It's just Kanto again, same story (less story than FRLG actually), same features more or less, but with a few extra battles and the Master Trainer thing.

They're less remakes and more remasters with wild battles swapped out for Go-style encounters - and that's fine in general, but is it really fine for a $60 core series Pokémon game that's the series' first on a home console? I don't know.

With all that said, I think that LGPE have probably earned their reputations, so I can't in good faith say they're all that underrated in the end. I get why people don't enjoy them, and a few years later I now get why some fans who haven't felt right about the series lately might point to them as where things started going wrong. Because I now see those same concerns from a few years ago impacting my own ability to enjoy more recent titles, I can't really argue against the perspective that the success of LGPE justified to Game Freak and Nintendo a path that I don't like from the series.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Further, I think the way they're considered to be core series titles by Game Freak also means that there's a standard that they should be held against, and as much as I enjoy them, I don't feel like I can say they met that standard. I get that it's hard to bring both younger and more casual players into the fold and still appease us long-term fans, but LGPE don't feel like they made any effort to appeal to more dedicated existing players for anyone outside of a very specific Gen 1 niche. There are no post-game battle facilities to provide a satisfying and engaging gameplay loop after rolling the credits; there are no new or extra areas to explore beyond a single dungeon, so you've seen it all if you've beaten the game and caught Mewtwo; they don't make much of an effort to flesh out many Kanto characters, with the only notable example I can remember being a scene with Lorelai in a spot she hadn't appeared before; they don't add to or change the Kanto story almost at all. HGSS improved on the Johto experience, adjusting levels and adding the Battle Frontier and adding a Safari Zone and incorporating elements from Crystal. ORAS expanded the Hoenn story with the Delta Episode and added brand new Mega Evolutions, then allowed us to catch old legendaries in all kinds of new places. LGPE... just didn't do anything like that. It's just Kanto again, same story (less story than FRLG actually), same features more or less, but with a few extra battles and the Master Trainer thing.

They're less remakes and more remasters with wild battles swapped out for Go-style encounters - and that's fine in general, but is it really fine for a $60 core series Pokémon game that's the series' first on a home console? I don't know.

You kind of allude to this with the question of whether or not it's fine for a $60 core series Pokemon game, but LGPE doesn't just need to hold itself to a standard of being a core Pokemon title, but it also has to hold itself to the standard of being a console game. Console games are usually held to a higher standard than handheld games (and while the Switch is a hybrid, it's capable of running console scale games, so console standards are more applicable to the Switch than handheld standards) because consoles have been capable of running very large, very content packed games that appeal to a market of gamers that want to engage with them for long periods of times, so a $60 console game has the expectation of being a "AAA" title which is essentially gaming's equivalent of a Hollywood blockbuster. A glorified remaster of a 1996 handheld game does not meet this kind of standard. Like, at all. It's not even a contest. LGPE just flat out seems like the wrong approach to take for a Switch game, from even a conceptual level. They do seem to have learned this and they have adjusted with SwSh and LA to design a game with more of a console mindset, but LGPE will forever be an awkward step into the console market that doesn't feel like it belongs. I am worried about them shifting towards more "remaster" style remakes in general as well (BDSP feels far too LGPE-esque and is only really better than LGPE because the original DPPt was far more advanced than the original RBY), that's getting extremely grating, but that's a larger discussion topic that goes beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Auraninja]

The thing about Let's Go is that its main attraction is probably my least favorite thing about the game.

Like the Go mechanics weren't that great IMO. They can be clunky at times, and it doesn't really add anything too substantial.

Otherwise, I think we had some solid titles, and while I ultimately liked FR/LG more, I think these titles did some things better.

They substracted exclusive rather than add them like in FR/LG (which is good if the game has a small sample of Pokemon before post game). The music was really good. The gym leaders redesigns were solid, and we weren't really given "weak Gym Leader TM syndrome" (thought why Headbutt from Brock ?). They took good ideas from Yellow. The rematches were interesting (particularly with the E4 and Alolan mons). The QoL was well intergrated.
Edit: Now that I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, Partner Pikachu and Eevee aren't weak, and can still be useful in battle in later game.

The Go mechanic was probably my biggest gripe. Other than that, they didn't really add anything too noteworthy, but I don't blame them for being smaller scale, which I think we can expect more of these type of titles.

 

[Luthor]

Do I think they are underrated I'd say yes but only slightly. I do still consider them to be the weakest remakes but there are some aspects I like in these games I mentioned this on another thread but there are 4 things I loved in in the Lets go games.

1. Better Gym and Elite 4 Initial and rematch teams (within the limits of the Kanto Dex)

If you look at the gym leaders and elite 4 teams a lot of them have much more diverse teams than they have in previous Kanto Games and considering the limited Dex size the fact they managed to achieve that was something I appreciated.

2. Use of Alolan Form Trades

I really liked this. Kanto has a limited roster and for some types the options are very limited (or in the case of Dark Type not present natively) . But using the Alolan forms there was much more variety. Not just for the Player but also used by the Elite 4 in their rematches giving their teams options they've never had before. For example In the Alola games while I caught one (and got the totem) I never really used the Alolan Raticate in Alola I did get some use out of one in part of these games by virtue of its rare typing.

3. Partner Eevee

It was quite fun to be able to use an Eevee with diverse move options and decent stats.

4. Using a Meltan & Melmetal in game for the first time

While I didn't use for playthough the fact that it added new Mythical options for Kanto (not technically from there but they are at least added to kanto dex) which I found quite fun. (admitting this is with the downside you needed access to Pokemon GO which some People do not).

But i admit a lot of people didn't like these as much as I did and the catching mechanic wasn't the most fun so I can't say that a lot of the criticism isn't fair. So I would consider slightly underrated but not by that much.

 

[Trillion]

nope. imo it's the worst pokemon game out of all the ones i've played. and besides hgss and the unova games, i've played them all from ruby - brilliant diamond

frlg is still the definitive kanto experience. the only thing lgpe has above those games are the graphics and the physical-special split

 

[beanDude]

The Let's Go games are very enjoyable. I do have issues with them though. First of all, I wish they changed more from Gen 1 and the Gen 1 remakes, considering Let's Go is not a remake. Secondly, while I really like how they did the exp and leveling curve, making the game difficult if you ignore wild Pokemon and only battle Trainers, but easy if you spend time grinding those catches, the balance isn't quite there. Towards the end of the game I went from being underleveled to overleveled in just one short grinding session. Also, while it's not like Let's Go is devoid of content, there definitely could have been a lot more.

That being said, there are a lot of little things that really make Let's Go enjoyable to me. I can tell effort went into them. While it shouldn't replace the standard Pokemon formula, I found the gameplay differences from the main series to be a nice break from what every Pokemon player is used to. If Let's Go sequels came out I would definitely pick them up right away.

 

[Autobot N]

They were pretty good. I'd like them a lot better if they had regular catching, abilities/held items, and at least post Gen 1 evolutions of Kanto Pokemon

 

[Aurelesk]

I liked LGPE. The game is good, overall. Far from being the greatest, but my tastes are kind of weird. I am not a fan of FRLG or Diamond and Pearl (Platinum is okay: it fixed a lot of problems), while considering XY a great game, and HGSS, B2W2 and ORAS being the greatest. Now, you are warned!
For me, LGPE is the best iteration of the Kanto region while somehow not being representative of Kanto. Weird thought, isn’t it?

What I like about LGPE are the following Pokémon and I appreciate it more retrospectively when we look at the situation in BDSP, the ability to ride many of our Pokémon, the overworld wild encounters (dodge the unwanted, choose who to catch), the game-breaking Partners Pokémon that will never be available outside their respective game, the player and Pokémon customization (silly to put a Diglett on my Eevee, but I can do it!), or the added trend to catch most of the Pokémon including starters in the wild. They even try to rebalance some moves in the game.
The catching mechanic was interesting. I don’t want it to be a core mechanic, but I would like to see it again in a minigame or sidequest. If they redo a Safari Zone, I am okay to add it in there.

I believe LGPE was limited purposely, but the few things they were allowed to work on were done greatly. But… There are a lot of things lacking, wrong, lazy or odd choices, or missed opportunities. For example, I do not understand why they opted for the Awakening Value system. It allows you to have +100 in each stat by level 1, which is insane.
As said by Autobot, the lack of Abilities, held Items and Pokémon hinders the game. To be fair, as LGPE is kind of a spin-off game, I was okay with not having all items back, or even Pokémon limited to 1 ability (rebalanced, or completely changed).
I understand why they didn’t include other Pokémon in the game in order to keep the experience “pure”. But “pure” is underwhelming. They could have added Pokémon related to the first generation without really harming the experience. For example: added up to 32 Pokémon with Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Crobat, Bellossom, Politoed, Slowking, Magnezone, Steelix, Tyrogue, Hitmontop, Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Happiny, Blissey, Tangrowth, Kingdra, Mime Jr., Scizor, Smoochum, Elekid, Electivire, Magby, Magmortar, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, Sylveon, Porygon2, Porygon-Z and Munchlax. If we include the 18 Alolan variants, we could have 201 entries in the Pokédex. It would still be poor, but it would be less poor. They could also add new areas to justify new Pokémon to catch. For example, instead of removing the Safari Zone, they could replace it with a Nature Preserve that emulates the Alolan climate and justify catching Alolan Pokémon there. It would be better than in-game trade.
The lack of Day Care for breeding is also a problem. I would also want some minigames. The forbidden slot machine could have been replaced with minigames à la Voltorblip, Pikachu-surfing could have made its comeback since it was a secret in Pokémon Yellow. The Safari Zone (third time I mention it…) is another way to break the pace. Or an interesting Sevii Island. They could also include the Battle Tower from Crystal as a wink to the player. It is also sad to say online functionalities peaked at XY, 8-9 years ago, and only went downward since.

Overall, LGPE is a pleasant game. It is not worth being considered as a full game, since it lacks many game mechanics and post-game content. When we compare to HGSS or ORAS, we can only be disappointed that the game isn’t as good and didn’t get as much polish as those two games. It is the weakest of the remakes. Yet, I find it better than FRLG and RBY, and unfortunately, LGPE is the best iteration of Kanto so far. Feel free to disagree I guess.

 

[beanDude]

Funny you mention Crowbat, because I literally had a Golbat follow me around for a significant portion of my playthrough in an attempt to raise its friendship level quicker, only to later suddenly have the realization that Crobat isn't in the game upon remembering that the Pokedex is Gen 1 only.

 

[Palamon]

Definitely not. This is one of the games I'm glad I skipped, and I very rarely, if ever, skip Pokemon games. Kanto has just been way too oversaturated at this point that, for me personality, anything that has to do with Kanto is just overrated. I do think these games were only created because of Pokemon Go's success, and that's fine, but we still didn't need more games that took place in Kanto.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

My main issue with the games was that they get very dull after awhile. I actually like battling wild Pokémon as I can level up my team and test out move sets without needing to go through the E4 and worrying about needing to either win five continuous battles or make my entire team faint on purpose and lose money as a result. I never encountered the Legendary Birds beyond the scripted meetings and I didn’t even come across a single Shiny Pokémon other than the Shiny Meltan and Melmetal I sent over from Go. And even the Go connectivity was boring unless you sent over I believe 30 of the same Pokémon and put them in the same Park which very few people would do.

 

[janejane6178]

Its a game for one walkthrough pnly for me

 

[Pokemon Power]

Yes, it is underrated. I really liked playing the original Kanto adventure on my Switch, and bringing my Gen. 1 and Alolan form Pokemon over from Pokemon Go. I wish they'd release an expansion pass for it.

 

[Aurelesk]

Kanto has just been way too oversaturated at this point that, for me personality, anything that has to do with Kanto is just overrated.

I am agreeing while disagreeing. I do not think the problem is the Kanto region itself, but the fact Gamefreak only proposed us to live the same adventure again and again with no real additional or unexpected content to lift it up. FRLG barely did it, but at least added held items, abilities, breeding and the Sevii Islands. LGPE didn't even do that: it is the same region with even less content.

It is like Alola and USUM: even if the games are the definitive version of SM, they felt mediocre in comparison because it was the same progression except the legendary by the endgame. However, those versions added some content: 100 additional Pokémon in the adventure, Mantine Surf, some Z-moves, Rotom Dex, Photo Club, Ultra Warp Ride, Battle Agency... If someone ask me which game they should play between SM and USUM, I will recommend the latter. But many players looked at USUM's content as planned, removed on purpose from SM to justify new sales. Contrary to B2W2, even if you visit the same region, you are following a brand new route and immersed in a brand new scenario. Even the route you have known have changed a bit, like north of Castelia City where the area either exploited the archaeological site, or removed for construction of habitation. It is far from being a slightly different adventure. And this, this is my guess on why people are oversaturated by Kanto: because it is always the same thing.

Let's be honest, if Pokémon Legends was in the Kanto region instead of Sinnoh, I will look forward to play the game, hoping the game will not rub Charizard all over my face (it is your HM Fly, the Champion has one, and it has a new form!).

I do think these games were only created because of Pokemon Go's success, and that's fine, but we still didn't need more games that took place in Kanto.

I believe Pokémon Go players and Pokémon RPG players are two different communities, and Pokémon Let's Go was an attempt to bring Go players to play the RPG, in hope that will increase the sales of the next games. Pokémon Sw/Sh did made better sales. Is it because of the Go players? Or because there are more Switch sold (92M) than 3DS (75M)? We can only wonder...

The removal of abilities and items in order to feels like Pokémon Go was an mistake. Smart phone players are not dumb. You could have those content without being primordial in the playthrough.

Yes, it is underrated. I really liked playing the original Kanto adventure on my Switch, and bringing my Gen. 1 and Alolan form Pokemon over from Pokemon Go. I wish they'd release an expansion pass for it.

For people annoyed by Kanto, any new games about the region will feel overrated due to lassitude.
For people not annoyed by Kanto, it is a nice adventure and they don't understand why many people are hating this game.

If I had to sum up my thoughts (sorry, that will be mean), Pokémon Let's go was an excellent proof of concept, and now I am waiting for the actual game to be released. It has a lot of strengths and it was a pleasant game. But deep inside me, I can't hide my disappointment: the game was quite empty. Once done, it is done, and did fill it justified to be sold at full price.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Overall, LGPE is a pleasant game. It is not worth being considered as a full game, since it lacks many game mechanics and post-game content. When we compare to HGSS or ORAS, we can only be disappointed that the game isn’t as good and didn’t get as much polish as those two games. It is the weakest of the remakes. Yet, I find it better than FRLG and RBY, and unfortunately, LGPE is the best iteration of Kanto so far. Feel free to disagree I guess.

I am agreeing while disagreeing. I do not think the problem is the Kanto region itself, but the fact Gamefreak only proposed us to live the same adventure again and again with no real additional or unexpected content to lift it up. FRLG barely did it, but at least added held items, abilities, breeding and the Sevii Islands. LGPE didn't even do that: it is the same region with even less content.

So how exactly is it "the best iteration of Kanto so far" when it's basically the same adventure all over again and FRLG added more?

It is like Alola and USUM: even if the games are the definitive version of SM, they felt mediocre in comparison because it was the same progression except the legendary by the endgame. However, those versions added some content: 100 additional Pokémon in the adventure, Mantine Surf, some Z-moves, Rotom Dex, Photo Club, Ultra Warp Ride, Battle Agency... If someone ask me which game they should play between SM and USUM, I will recommend the latter. But many players looked at USUM's content as planned, removed on purpose from SM to justify new sales. Contrary to B2W2, even if you visit the same region, you are following a brand new route and immersed in a brand new scenario. Even the route you have known have changed a bit, like north of Castelia City where the area either exploited the archaeological site, or removed for construction of habitation. It is far from being a slightly different adventure. And this, this is my guess on why people are oversaturated by Kanto: because it is always the same thing.

Let's be honest, if Pokémon Legends was in the Kanto region instead of Sinnoh, I will look forward to play the game, hoping the game will not rub Charizard all over my face (it is your HM Fly, the Champion has one, and it has a new form!).

I do think that a more radical approach to Kanto like what BW2 and Legends Arceus did would've caused less controversy. We've gone through Kanto 4 times already and going through it a 5th time is tiring without larger changes. They've shown they can just port the older games with the VC versions of RBY and GSC on 3DS, so if they just want to resell the old regions they can just do that instead of going through the trouble to recreate the game to be exactly the way it was in 1996.

Personally, this is my biggest beef with all of the Kanto revisits. Not so much that we've been to Kanto all of the time, but that RBY's design has aged poorly and there are so many hardware limitations baked into the design. Look at what they were able to do with RBY on the GB. Now look at what they were able to do with SwSh or Legends Arceus on the Switch. It's a night and day difference. The region design is so much larger and so much more realistic. We have 900 Pokemon to choose from instead of just the same old 151. The story and characters are much more fleshed out. There's so much more extra content, sidequests, and QoL features. The series has evolved in every way since then, so reverting back to the limitations of a primitive 1996 handheld whose games could run on a freaking calculator is a huge leap backwards. I'm sick of seeing Kanto as it was in 1996 with an HD coat of paint. I've played Kanto and it's far too outdated to be worth being a $60 console game. I want to see Kanto as it would've been if it was made for the first time and built from the ground up on the Switch. The Switch offers FAR more possibilities for Kanto than the GB could've ever dreamed of and I want to see them take advantage when they revisit old regions. BW2 and Legends Arceus are far better examples of how they should be approaching new Kanto games.

I believe Pokémon Go players and Pokémon RPG players are two different communities, and Pokémon Let's Go was an attempt to bring Go players to play the RPG, in hope that will increase the sales of the next games. Pokémon Sw/Sh did made better sales. Is it because of the Go players? Or because there are more Switch sold (92M) than 3DS (75M)? We can only wonder...

Considering that many other Nintendo IPs have been breaking sales records on the Switch, it's pretty safe to assume it's the latter. Pokemon is selling like hotcakes because the Switch and all of Nintendo's IPs are selling like hotcakes. Go players likely contributed little to the sales success of LGPE and from an opportunity cost standpoint, it seems like LGPE may have been a failure. In other words, LGPE likely didn't sell more than a more traditional Kanto remake on the Switch would've sold if they did that instead, so it makes the decision to target Go players with LGPE pointless and just caused unnecessary drama. We'll never know for sure without seeing the data, but if targeting Go players was really a success, LGPE would've probably done about the same or better than SwSh.

 

[Aurelesk]

So how exactly is it "the best iteration of Kanto so far" when it's basically the same adventure all over again and FRLG added more?

If someone wants to play a game about the Kanto region and asked you which game they should play between RBY, FRLG and LGPE, you would tell them to play FRLG instead of LGPE? For me, LGPE is the best iteration of Kanto so far, so here my recommandation. Not because the game is the greatest, nor great. But because the game is the least bad of the three. So the "best". Here my take on the three games:
→ RBY is a clunky game that is uninteresting for people who didn't played it when they were a child. Nostalgia is a big factor of fond memory, and one of the charm of RBY are most of the glitch like the oldman glitch or the ditto glitch. I cannot recommend new players to play this game as they have neither the nostalgia, nor going to be thrilled about the idea that you could abuse of the many glitches the game has to offer. But for me, I like playing RBY way more than FRLG just because of this.
→ FRLG is an updated version and very faithful of RBY. It added new gameplay elements like abilities and held items, and also a postgame content with the Sevii island, the underwhelming Trainer Towerand the breeding mechanic. I must admit, I look forward to play them from time to time but I can't finish the game. Not because it is hard, but because it is highly annoying. Every time in the first hours, the game throw me some infamous tutorials that are not needed, and I grow tired quite quickly. It suffers from the same problem: you cannot catch other Pokémon outside the first 150 during the adventure, even if more Pokémon are available in the post game content. I cannot sincerely recommend FRLG to a player who didn't experienced the Kanto region yet, because FRLG give a really bad impression when playing the first two hours.
→ LGPE is another updated version. It has not the postgame content of FRLG and is primary limited to Master Trainers (a very artificial way to increase playtime). They do not even allows to extend to the National Dex after the adventure, meaning we are stuck with the 151 first, but they added Alolan variant and Mega-Evolution (which do not compensate). The strength of LGPE is more on the player experience: the graphics, the musics and the quality of life improvements made everything. The player customization or the ability to ride our Pokémon are also some nice touch. There are no random encounter anymore which make travelling less than a chore. Filling the Pokédex also feels more natural and fulfilling.

I do not expect to convince anyone, so let's agree to disagree. You now have my thoughts on the subject.

I do think that a more radical approach to Kanto like what BW2 and Legends Arceus did would've caused less controversy. We've gone through Kanto 4 times already and going through it a 5th time is tiring without larger changes.

We have a Sinnoh related game that will came out 2 months after its remaster, and people are looking forward it. If we follow your logic, people should have massively rejected the game instead. Do we really count the Kanto region in GSC and HGSS as Kanto games? For me, there are only 3 iterations of Kanto.

RBY's design has aged poorly and there are so many hardware limitations baked into the design. Look at what they were able to do with RBY on the GB. Now look at what they were able to do with SwSh or Legends Arceus on the Switch. It's a night and day difference.

I completely agree with you. Instead of rethinking completely the Kanto region to fill less "blocky" and more natural, they just redid everything similar but with updated graphics. We can see this in XY that has 3D design but, apart from Lumiose city, felt like 2D design environment, and SM what fully embraced the 3D design environment. Here in LGPE, we just have an HD version of a 2D environment design, which make the game less immersive. What a waste of potential!

The region design is so much larger and so much more realistic. We have 900 Pokemon to choose from instead of just the same old 151. The story and characters are much more fleshed out. There's so much more extra content, sidequests, and QoL features.

Once more, I agree. When we compare the ORAS version, the introduction of new Pokémon was a plot point due to the resurgence of primal Groudon/Kyogre. This means you could have a faithful experience, but still add more content near the end of the adventure. They could do it, and yet they didn't. Again: what a waste of potential!

They could totally make the same with LGPE being an alternate story, where we need to stop Giovanni from taking over Kanto and get his hands on Mewtwo. We could even witness the Pokémon Mansion before it burnt with Mewtwo inside, before he destroyed it and flew off. I don't remember full story of RBY, but here my dumb fanfic on what it could have be done:

Giovanni is a Yakuza/mafia boss, that gets its money from running the Celadon Game Corner. He is power-hungry and is seeking power. First by being the Pokémon Champion, then rule the world. For this, he needs the most powerful Pokémon ever created.
First, he creates the Team Rocket and order to steal all Pokémon. With all the Pokémon in the world, one of them would be the most powerful and lead him to achieve its plan. But this plan cannot work: strong Pokémon are not easily stolen. Still, selling those Pokémon offer good money to fuel his other plans.
Then, he takes control of the Sliph Compagny and order the scientists to work on engineer the best Pokémon. This lead to the creation of Porygon, an underwhelming Pokémon.
During all this time, he gains power and influence, and took over the Gym Leader position in Viridian city. He read about the legendary Mew that lived a long time ago and had the ability to shift to whatever Pokémon it wants. If a Pokémon can adapt to anything, he can take the form of the most powerful Pokémon as well, meaning it is the most powerful Pokémon!
He sent an expedition all over the world to find any remains of the Pokémon. Inside Mount Moon, the excavation of ancient fossils lead to the discovery of the DNA of an unknown Pokémon: this is Mew.
(well, it was supposed to be in french Guiana near Kourou City, I guess because Satori is interested in Space Station and Amazonia, but since the Pokémon world evolved to not be in the real life world anymore, I guess we could make this change).
He then blackmails both M. Fuji and Blaine, both lead scientist for the Silph Co and Team Rocket to recreate the mythical Mew from the fossils in his hidden laboratory in the Pokémon Mansion on Cinnabar Island. Unfortunately, the DNA inside the Fossil isn't enough to revive the Pokémon, and each attempt create the Ditto Pokémon, a Pokémon that has the shapeshift ability but cannot fully mastered it.
Close to his goal, but unable to get it, Giovanni snaps and order the most unethical experiment: mix his own DNA with the Mew DNA in order to genetically engineer a Pokémon even more powerful than Mew. This lead to the creation of Mewtwo, a Pokémon as powerful as it is unstable. Bloodthirsty, Mewtwo destroyed the Pokémon Mansion and flew away.
Giovanni was that close to complete his goal. If the Pokémon cannot obey him willingly, it will by force. He orders the scientists of the Silph Company to engineer the perfect Poké Ball that could catch every Pokémon and make them docile... this is the Master Ball.


Once the Pokémon Mansion exploded, and all the Ditto Pokémon roam the world, and reproduce in the wild, we could this plot point to make Pokémon from other generation to appear in all the Routes.

The series has evolved in every way since then, so reverting back to the limitations of a primitive 1996 handheld whose games could run on a freaking calculator is a huge leap backwards. I'm sick of seeing Kanto as it was in 1996 with an HD coat of paint. I've played Kanto and it's far too outdated to be worth being a $60 console game. I want to see Kanto as it would've been if it was made for the first time and built from the ground up on the Switch. The Switch offers FAR more possibilities for Kanto than the GB could've ever dreamed of and I want to see them take advantage when they revisit old regions. BW2 and Legends Arceus are far better examples of how they should be approaching new Kanto games.

Once again and again: I agree. This is not Kanto fault per se, but the laziness of the remake. They just redo the same game over and over again without putting much effort. HGSS and ORAS were great, LGPE and BDSP were underwhelming. HGSS and ORAS didn't cut Togekiss or Roserade from the game, yet Crobat and Sylveon didn't made it respectively. Even if I believe the team in charge of Pokémon LGPE wasn't allowed to make those changes even if they had the time and the imagination, they were just ordered to make the game as simplistic as ever, so they delivered this. This is quite sad.
Overall, the game is good for what it is and I do recommend it. It doesn't justify to be a full price game. But I agree: this is not the game that the majority of us would have either expected or wanted. We wanted more than a simple remake. Instead of faithful simplistic remake, we would have wanted a more immersive and tactical remake.

Considering that many other Nintendo IPs have been breaking sales records on the Switch, it's pretty safe to assume it's the latter.

I share your point of view. It was completely my point: the latest Pokémon games sold better because they are more Switch sold than 3DS. This is what I believe. But I could be wrong.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

If someone wants to play a game about the Kanto region and asked you which game they should play between RBY, FRLG and LGPE, you would tell them to play FRLG instead of LGPE? For me, LGPE is the best iteration of Kanto so far, so here my recommandation. Not because the game is the greatest, nor great. But because the game is the least bad of the three. So the "best". Here my take on the three games:
→ RBY is a clunky game that is uninteresting for people who didn't played it when they were a child. Nostalgia is a big factor of fond memory, and one of the charm of RBY are most of the glitch like the oldman glitch or the ditto glitch. I cannot recommend new players to play this game as they have neither the nostalgia, nor going to be thrilled about the idea that you could abuse of the many glitches the game has to offer. But for me, I like playing RBY way more than FRLG just because of this.
→ FRLG is an updated version and very faithful of RBY. It added new gameplay elements like abilities and held items, and also a postgame content with the Sevii island, the underwhelming Trainer Towerand the breeding mechanic. I must admit, I look forward to play them from time to time but I can't finish the game. Not because it is hard, but because it is highly annoying. Every time in the first hours, the game throw me some infamous tutorials that are not needed, and I grow tired quite quickly. It suffers from the same problem: you cannot catch other Pokémon outside the first 150 during the adventure, even if more Pokémon are available in the post game content. I cannot sincerely recommend FRLG to a player who didn't experienced the Kanto region yet, because FRLG give a really bad impression when playing the first two hours.
→ LGPE is another updated version. It has not the postgame content of FRLG and is primary limited to Master Trainers (a very artificial way to increase playtime). They do not even allows to extend to the National Dex after the adventure, meaning we are stuck with the 151 first, but they added Alolan variant and Mega-Evolution (which do not compensate). The strength of LGPE is more on the player experience: the graphics, the musics and the quality of life improvements made everything. The player customization or the ability to ride our Pokémon are also some nice touch. There are no random encounter anymore which make travelling less than a chore. Filling the Pokédex also feels more natural and fulfilling.

I do not expect to convince anyone, so let's agree to disagree. You now have my thoughts on the subject.

So you're basically putting LGPE over FRLG because of long tutorials? First of all, I don't remember any such tutorials, later games like XY and SM were certainly worse on this. But even then, judging the whole game on the first 2 hours of tutorials vs. the 10+ extra hours of the Sevii Islands doesn't really make a ton of sense. I do agree that the best Kanto game is more a matter of which one is the least bad, but if you're going to complain that FRLG had more content, it doesn't really make much sense to say LGPE is the best, especially when you haven't done a good job of explaining what it is about LGPE you think is better than FRLG.

We have a Sinnoh related game that will came out 2 months after its remaster, and people are looking forward it. If we follow your logic, people should have massively rejected the game instead.

No, you have my logic backwards. I'm saying that people would be more accepting of a BW2 or Legends Arceus scenario for an old region, not that they would reject it.

Do we really count the Kanto region in GSC and HGSS as Kanto games? For me, there are only 3 iterations of Kanto.

Yes we do. It takes place in Kanto, it retains many of the same locations and Pokemon from Kanto, it just has a different storyline. GSCHGSS Kanto is like Kanto's BW2 except it was more destructive than constructive (when I say I want "BW2 Kanto" even though we've already had one I mean I want a more constructive iteration of Kanto that actually builds it up like BW2 did for Unova, not one that strips it down like GSCHGSS). So it counts as a Kanto game, it just doesn't play out quite the same way as RBYFRLGLGPE

Once more, I agree. When we compare the ORAS version, the introduction of new Pokémon was a plot point due to the resurgence of primal Groudon/Kyogre. This means you could have a faithful experience, but still add more content near the end of the adventure. They could do it, and yet they didn't. Again: what a waste of potential!

Honestly I don't even think that's far enough because HGSS and ORAS primarily locked the new Pokemon to the end of the game. I want to see new Pokemon available from the start of the game. Even the likes of FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS have been too conservative about keeping the new Pokemon locked to post game whereas the main game still has to suffer from variety issues because they can't be bothered to actually touch the main game. There's several gym leaders/Elite 4 in the older games that are forced to either use duplicates or Pokemon of different types because there simply weren't enough of that type in the original game's regional dex (Agatha, Lance, Phoebe, Glacia, Drake, DPBDSP Candice, DPBDSP Volkner, DPBDSP Flint), and they really should have enough Pokemon that you can make an entire monotype team of your favorite type. That was more tolerable in the originals because some of those types didn't have enough in the entire National Dex, but now we have more than enough Pokemon and these issues are entirely avoidable, they just choose not to fix them. Just freaking throw in a Drifloon or a Druddigon or something to the main game and all this goes away. I'm sick of them pretending like they don't exist and unnecessarily recreating old roster issues.

 

[beanDude]

I never understood the "too much Kanto" complaint among the fanbase. Do HG/SS, OR/AS, and the Black and White sequels just not exist? Not to mention both BD/SP and Legends on Switch being Sinnoh games?

That being said, Let's Go is still fun for the novelty of what it does differently from the main games, but FireRed and LeafGreen are still the objectively better games in every possible way.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I never understood the "too much Kanto" complaint among the fanbase. Do HG/SS, OR/AS, and the Black and White sequels just not exist? Not to mention both BD/SP and Legends on Switch being Sinnoh games?

Just because there's other games in other regions doesn't mean Kanto is oversaturated. There are multiple games for other regions like Sinnoh and Unova, but there are far more Kanto games than anything. RBY, GSC, FRLG, HGSS, and LGPE are all Kanto games. That is a bit much. And unlike the other regions, where there were long gaps in between some of the games, we haven't gone more than 5-10 years without a Kanto game of some kind.

 

[Aurelesk]

That being said, Let's Go is still fun for the novelty of what it does differently from the main games, but FireRed and LeafGreen are still the objectively better games in every possible way.

This, this is what I don't understand.
→ Objectively? Do you mean subjectively, as every opinions are?
→ Better in every possible way? How? Do you mean LGPE hasn't a single area where it perform better than FRLG?
I really need to read your opinion in order to better get why you say this.

FRLG has numerous strengths over their counterparts. I hope anyone is denying it. It has more post-game contents with the Sevii Island, the Trainer Tower and the addition of the National Dex, more battle mechanic with Abilities or held Items, more mini-games with the game corner and Safari Zone, and different feature like the Day Care (for breeding purposes) or the Vs. Seeker.

But LGPE has other features. It has better graphics, better music and include numerous quality of life improvements including faster combat and animation, box storage available everywhere or the removal of HM. There is a player customization as well as some Pokémon customization. Pokémon can follow you, and you can ride some of them. The Mega-Evolution and the Alolan variant are introduced, and you can also rematch from Gym Leader once per day. Pokémon appears in the wild making navigation way less frustrating and way more immersive while making the Pokedex completion a way more pleasant task to do. A Catch Combo feature is introduced to increase the candy rates, shiny odds and better IVs for Pokémon. You cannot deny that LGPE has strengths too.
But I will understand if you say you don't care about those strengths because they do not matter to you.

Is FRLG the objectively better games in every possible way? No. FRLG is a game with many strengths, and some people value subjectively better those games because they have the features they like the most.

My opinion is also subjective. I consider, subjectively, that LGPE is the definitive version of Kanto. It doesn't mean FRLG is a bad game or not enjoyable. But if someone asked me "What would you recommend me to play between RBY, FRLG and LGPE?", I cannot honestly say I will recommend FRLG. But if I recommend LGPE, deep inside, I will need to make a disclaimer and say that LGPE is quite far from standard Pokémon RPG and should also try other Pokémon games too.

All depends what they want. If they want to experience the Kanto region, therefore I recommend LGPE. If they want to experience more tactical battle, well I would not recommend Pokémon in the first play as the adventure is far from being tough. But if they are interesting in trainer battle, then it is USUM or Sword/Shield with its online battle communities and faster way to train optimal Pokémon.