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Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

Vini310

Well-Known Member
I'M BACK! (because everyone was worried about my absence #sarcasm )
Now, let´s get serious.
As the title says, Ash really deserve win a league? In my opinion: NO! HE NEVER DESERVED TO WIN A LEAGUE, AND NEVER WILL DESERVE!

Why? Simple:
1 - His victory will be obfuscated by his defeats.
"Orange League DOSEN'T COUNT!" - The Pokémon fanbase about Ash's victory.
2 - Ash is a hero! He prevented Arceus from destroying the world (Movie 13) and defeted many criminals (you know: Team Plasma, Team Galactic etc). Pokémon Leagues are a waste of time.
3 - He won some "filler" competitions, but NOBODY remenbers that!
"I don't care if Ash won the High School Cup, the Battle Frontier or whatever, if he lose the league I will stop watching Pokémon!" - The pokémon fanbase.
4 - And the most important: his won will never have some importance to the plot. On the Pokémon anime, every season is like a rebbot of a previous one (Pokémon XY is for the series the same Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to Yu-Gi-Oh!, or Digimon Fusion is for the other Digimon seasons). NOBODY IN THE ANIME WILL REMEMBER IF HE WIN!

And you, what you think?
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Well if there was a league that Ash deserved to win it was this one or Sinnoh. Ash should have won Sinnoh if it wasn't for Trollbias, and he should have won this one if it wasn't for Alain and his Hax-level ZardX. Basically Ash has what it takes to win, but the writers are refusing to give it to him for whatever reason (Sinnoh made sense in order to keep Ash traveling in Unova, but this one is questionable since there is no official league in Alola, so winning this league would make sense.)
 
Well if there was a league that Ash deserved to win it was this one or Sinnoh. Ash should have won Sinnoh if it wasn't for Trollbias, and he should have won this one if it wasn't for Alain and his Hax-level ZardX. Basically Ash has what it takes to win, but the writers are refusing to give it to him for whatever reason (Sinnoh made sense in order to keep Ash traveling in Unova, but this one is questionable since there is no official league in Alola, so winning this league would make sense.)
Well, maybe the writers have a secret surprise in mind that might change the whole definition of status quo repetition.
 

SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
Ash totally deserved to win this one. Maybe Sinnoh too, but definitely the Kalos league.

If it weren't for Tobias or Alain, Ash would have won two championships already. He is irrefutably the second strongest trainer in both those region's tournaments when he participated in the tournament.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Standby for Battle!
Ash deserved to win a league in arguably AG and definitely in DP,he had enough skill and a fair amount of strong pokemon to do it.
 
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Genaller

Silver Soul
Well I disagree with a point of yours about Ash's past accomplishments. In AG, Max commented on witnessing Ash battle in the Johto league. In Sinnoh Ash's victory over Brandden is acknowledged and actually used as a plot device to make Paul begin to develop respect for Ash's skill as a trainer. I also disagree about Ash being reset. The only time Ash was truly reset was in BW, but there is a clear progression of Ash's skill and maturity from OS-DP with XY feeling more like it was a follow up from DP rather than BW atleast when it comes to Ash's character. Pikachu; however is a whole separate issue that I won't go into for this thread. Am I upset that Ash lost the league, YES!!, but I won't stop watching, since atleast this time Ash progressed further than ever before. As long as they keep Ash's skill and maturity from XY intact, I won't have any problem. Ash was conference champion material by Sinnoh, since he was the strongest tariner in that league barring the walking Action Replay (since the guy in the finals couldn't even takedown Darkrai, whereas Ash KOed Darkrai and Latios).
 

Viex

Well-Known Member
This doesn't seem like you want a discussion. It's more like you want people validating your opinion.
 

noibatbat

New Member
I think having him winning would draw attention to the whole franchise which would be an advantage considering that sun and moon are around the corner
and yes, he deserves it, hes proven himself this season. Hes a real strategic
 

Vini310

Well-Known Member
This doesn't seem like you want a discussion. It's more like you want people validating your opinion.
No...
I just explained why I think that Ash don't deserve to win the league. nobody needs to agree with my arguments.
 

Billybo10K

Silent Trainer
I'M BACK! (because everyone was worried about my absence #sarcasm )
Now, let´s get serious.
As the title says, Ash really deserve win a league? In my opinion: NO! HE NEVER DESERVED TO WIN A LEAGUE, AND NEVER WILL DESERVE!

Why? Simple:
1 - His victory will be obfuscated by his defeats.
"Orange League DOSEN'T COUNT!" - The Pokémon fanbase about Ash's victory.
2 - Ash is a hero! He prevented Arceus from destroying the world (Movie 13) and defeted many criminals (you know: Team Plasma, Team Galactic etc). Pokémon Leagues are a waste of time.
3 - He won some "filler" competitions, but NOBODY remenbers that!
"I don't care if Ash won the High School Cup, the Battle Frontier or whatever, if he lose the league I will stop watching Pokémon!" - The pokémon fanbase.
4 - And the most important: his won will never have some importance to the plot. On the Pokémon anime, every season is like a rebbot of a previous one (Pokémon XY is for the series the same Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to Yu-Gi-Oh!, or Digimon Fusion is for the other Digimon seasons). NOBODY IN THE ANIME WILL REMEMBER IF HE WIN!

And you, what you think?
1 - The Orange League was a literal filler season. It wasn't an official Pokemon League from the games, so people don't count it. Plus beating one guy with a hacked Dragonite is nothing compared to having to go through a gauntlet of league battles to reach the top. There's no comparison there.

2 - How the heck does Ash being a hero affect the Pokemon League, or at the very least, how much he deserves a win? He can defeat legends and evil teams sure, but the Pokemon League is his goal throughout the anime. Evil Teams are almost always there just to spew the plot from the games so unless it's Team Flare since they've gone for a completely anime-only plot, it's just retelling the games, not Ash as a character. And the movies are never referenced in the main anime so they don't exactly matter in the anime's continuity. Ash isn't too good for the Pokemon Leagues, because if he was, he wouldn't be losing them.

3 - Same argument as number one. He hasn't won an official league. Sure, it's great that he won some filler competitions, but that's the problem. They're filler. Small competitions, they aren't Ash's main goal and thus they aren't the viewer's main goal. We began watching Pokemon following Ash's dream to become a Pokemon Master and that's what draws people in. The fanbase has nothing to do with whether Ash deserves a victory.

4 - Actually, the only anime that really has a proper reset is BW. Kanto through Sinnoh were all showing Ash's growth as a trainer and a character. He grew stronger, had references to past seasons and slowly he began to mature. XY and XYZ seemingly continue from that point onwards as well, leaving us with an Ash that is maturing. It's Ash's choice to always go to new regions with completely new teams and the adventure through the regions works perfectly like that. Even if he wins, he'll still want to travel and explore, whereas letting Ash win will let the viewers know that the writers are progressing. Pokemon is stagnant. That's a fact. If Ash doesn't win within the next two generations (Assuming there's a Gen 8) there'll be nobody left to care. So let him win so we can actually develop his character.
 

Satoshi & Touko

Glimwood Tangle is Literal Dreamland
Ash deserves to win but it doesn't mean that he will win. It is up to the writers.
Pretty much this.

I do agree that Ash should have won a League by now, given how many regions he's traveled through. But, you know, the anime in the end is just a giant commercial for the games and we need our dense hero and overrated yellow mouse mascot.
 

SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
No...
I just explained why I think that Ash don't deserve to win the league. nobody needs to agree with my arguments.
Him saving the world, winning filler tournaments, and stopping bad guys is more reason why he SHOULD win a tournament. You highlighted his accomplishments and said he doesn't need more as your argument. I mean, it's like, your opinion, but you kind of also invalidate yourself.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Ash has now lost at every latter stage in a league (Top 16, Top 8, Top 4, Finals).

Progression: Top 16 -> Top 8 (w/reserves) -> Top 8 (w/out reserves) -> Top 4 (w/reserves) -> (****) -> Top 2 (w/out reserves) -> Sun&Moon: Win???

He basically deserved to win in both Sinnoh and Kalos, but since they like to progress him only one step at a time, if he is ever going to win everything, it has to be next season.
 
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