• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

i think its more that winning a traditional league means that you are the best - there are no exceptions. multiple trainers can challenge drake and win though, as well as challenge the battle frontier. winning these doesn't truly mean you are the best
Yes, winning a traditional League is much more difficult and a great achievement. It also gives a trainer access to the Champion's League, i.e., the chance to become a Champion. I thought that would happen in XY with Ash being so much mature and competent in that series and making to the finals, but alas! The status quo once again intervened!
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Dragonite is a Dragon/Flying type, so it doesn't have a resistance to Electric types. And the Orange League wasn't a tournament with many trainers competing, so it wasn't a traditional League.
A league is a league, regardless of whether it's a major or minor league, or a traditional or non-traditional league. The Orange League might not have been a traditional league, but it was still a league, and so it should still count. Ash defeated Drake and became Champion of the Orange League, with the trophy to prove it. And so what if Dragonite doesn't have a resistance to Electric types? It was still a tough opponent, and it's still a pseudo-Legendary.
 
A league is a league, regardless of whether it's a major or minor league, or a traditional or non-traditional league. The Orange League might not have been a traditional league, but it was still a league, and so it should still count. Ash defeated Drake and became Champion of the Orange League, with the trophy to prove it. And so what if Dragonite doesn't have a resistance to Electric types? It was still a tough opponent, and it's still a pseudo-Legendary.
yea technically he won a league but no one really cares about that league
 
A league is a league, regardless of whether it's a major or minor league, or a traditional or non-traditional league. The Orange League might not have been a traditional league, but it was still a league, and so it should still count. Ash defeated Drake and became Champion of the Orange League, with the trophy to prove it. And so what if Dragonite doesn't have a resistance to Electric types? It was still a tough opponent, and it's still a pseudo-Legendary.
A traditional League, which is a tournament, is much tougher to win, as all rounds are knockouts- there is a gruelling competitive environment there. And winning a traditional League would give Ash the access to the Champion's League, i.e., the chance to become a Champion.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Yes, winning a traditional League is much more difficult and a great achievement. It also gives a trainer access to the Champion's League, i.e., the chance to become a Champion. I thought that would happen in XY with Ash being so much mature and competent in that series and making to the finals, but alas! The status quo once again intervened!
Ash never even reached a finals before. Him losing was acceptable, especially with that team against Alain.
 

AuraChannelerChris

The Dragon / "Dog"
That is pretty subjective. Ash should only deserve to win a league when it looks like he deserves it with good progress and proof that he's not sidelining every other teammate over the one who gets to have all the focus despite not shown winning that much.

...But unfortunately, these writers are extremely unorthodox and unpredictable, so I can't really say.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
yea technically he won a league but no one really cares about that league
But that's the problem. Fans complain that Ash has never won a league, but he has: he won the Orange League, and he qualified to be a Frontier Brain in the Battle Frontier. So what if those aren't traditional league tournaments? So what if winning those doesn't qualify Ash to compete in the Champion's League? They are still leagues, and so they should count.
 

AuraChannelerChris

The Dragon / "Dog"
But that's the problem. Fans complain that Ash has never won a league, but he has: he won the Orange League, and he qualified to be a Frontier Brain in the Battle Frontier. So what if those aren't traditional league tournaments? So what if winning those doesn't qualify Ash to compete in the Champion's League? They are still leagues, and so they should count.
Problem was nobody was competing against him in those two. It was a straight path to the big cheeses.
 
But that's the problem. Fans complain that Ash has never won a league, but he has: he won the Orange League, and he qualified to be a Frontier Brain in the Battle Frontier. So what if those aren't traditional league tournaments? So what if winning those doesn't qualify Ash to compete in the Champion's League? They are still leagues, and so they should count.
battle frontier aint a league
just because orange league is techinically a league doesn't mean fans have to be satisfied with ash's progress. i wouldn't be happy if someone created an official league with two people in it and ash won, even though it is technically a league
 
Last edited:
But that's the problem. Fans complain that Ash has never won a league, but he has: he won the Orange League, and he qualified to be a Frontier Brain in the Battle Frontier. So what if those aren't traditional league tournaments? So what if winning those doesn't qualify Ash to compete in the Champion's League? They are still leagues, and so they should count.
In that case I will say the same thing AuraChannelerChris said:
Problem was nobody was competing against him in those two. It was a straight path to the big cheeses.

Anyway, I hope the writers break this status quo someday and let Ash win a League.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Ash deserves to win from Sun&Moon onward. In a league that's not rushed or treated as a B-plot (like in XY), with reserves battling and cameo appearances from previous characters watching on TV or at the stadium.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I don't quite get the obsession with reserves. If he went through the Alola league (if there even is one) without reserves I wouldn't complain.

If anything it would give his Alolan Pokemon more opportunities to shins
 

Janovy

Banned
I don't quite get the obsession with reserves.
People want Ash's first league victory (an event that has been anticipated for YEARS) to be due to the team effort of his entire Pokemon ensemble.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I count the Orange Islands as a League win considering how tough it was for Ash to take out Dragonite. The pseudo Legendary took out Charizard with ease and that is Ash's strongest fully evolved Pokémon. Greninja is almost as strong but that's mainly because it can turn into Ash Greninja which powers it up its strength greatly. Pikachu was already tired from a tough round with Ditto and had to deal with Hyper Beams for most of the final round. It took holding onto Dragonite and using Thunder to KO the Dragon. And Dragonite has always been portrayed as being hard to take down in the anime.
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Including Battle Frontier among Ash's League Victories is an unreasoned approach when the Battle Frontier gives trainers the opportunity to witness one's entire team and readjust their pokemon/strategies accordingly. Its structure isn't equivalent to that of an actual League Conference, so there is some logic in neglecting Ash's performance within the Battle Frontier. That's not even mentioning how his experiences within the Battle Frontier hasn't enabled him to win a league at all.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
That Dragonite had 10 moves.

That should be illegal.
I think that the four moves only thing happens in the games. Pikachu has had many moves and Charizard knows about six. Charizard definitely knows Seismic Toss, Flamethrower, Slash, Dragon Claw, Wing Attack, and another Fire attack but I forget which one. Pikachu knows Thunder, Thunderbolt, Volt Tackle, Swift (it used it once), Quick Attack, Electro Ball, and Rock Smash. It may not use some of them often but it still knows them as no Pokémon in the anime has ever forgotten how to use a move before.
 

Janovy

Banned
It may not use some of them often but it still knows them as no Pokémon in the anime has ever forgotten how to use a move before.
I think Pikachu definitely forgot Volt Tackle. It hasn't been used once since he learned Electro Ball, which happened over 5 years ago.
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
As for the topic, hopefully the writers believe that Ash does deserve to win and that Pikachu does deserve to be MVP in the League.
 
Top