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Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

I think that the four moves only thing happens in the games. Pikachu has had many moves and Charizard knows about six. Charizard definitely knows Seismic Toss, Flamethrower, Slash, Dragon Claw, Wing Attack, and another Fire attack but I forget which one. Pikachu knows Thunder, Thunderbolt, Volt Tackle, Swift (it used it once), Quick Attack, Electro Ball, and Rock Smash. It may not use some of them often but it still knows them as no Pokémon in the anime has ever forgotten how to use a move before.
The four-move barrier have been strongly followed in the Anime since the DP series.

Anyway, I would like to see Ash finally win a League someday using his strongest reserves from the previous regions.
 
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RedJirachi

Veteran member
But that's the problem. Fans complain that Ash has never won a league, but he has: he won the Orange League, and he qualified to be a Frontier Brain in the Battle Frontier. So what if those aren't traditional league tournaments? So what if winning those doesn't qualify Ash to compete in the Champion's League? They are still leagues, and so they should count.
Those are fillers. Fans are interested in the main tournaments...though at least he won something
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
The issue is that none of those leagues or tournaments have contributed to Ash's overall progress as a pokemon trainer. The Battle Frontier did somewhat and this was at least acknowledged with Ash and Paul's rivalry, but other than that, I fail to see the efficacy of it when he still hasn't used what he learned through that experience to actually win a league.
 
They are not fillers in any shape or form.

In terms of Ash's performances, I rank the Battle Frontier completion better than his Kalos, Hoenn, and Johto League accomplishments, and only behind the Sinnoh League.
Agreed. I wish we get another Battle Frontier/Orange League situation and no regional league tournaments in SM since Ash is destined to lose those anyways. He really needs to win something soon imo
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
They are not fillers in any shape or form.

In terms of Ash's performances, I rank the Battle Frontier completion better than his Kalos, Hoenn, and Johto League accomplishments, and only behind the Sinnoh League.
I'd just straight up rate the Battle Frontier accomplishment as the greatest achievement in Ash's life until he actually wins a League. Also Kalos > Sinnoh > Hoenn > Johto IMO (Tobias was stronger than Alain, but Ash lost 6-2 without Tobias needing a 3rd whereas Ash lost 6-5 to Alain who pretty much Tobiased everyone else in the league and we have no way of objectively comparing the people who Tobias fodderised to the people who Alain fodderised and besides the Kalos runner-up feat being better just goes in line with Ash's OS -> AG -> DP -> XY progression).
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
It's not if he deserves to win a league, but if he deserves an end. At least this is what this conversation sounds like.
 

Janovy

Banned
It's not if he deserves to win a league, but if he deserves an end. At least this is what this conversation sounds like.
I agree with this.

- Give him the League win.
- Keep him travelling because the Pokemon Master goal remains as vague as ever.
- Introduce a new main character with a more tangible goal.
 

Crystal

The Pokemon Observer
According to the blogs of Shudo Takeshi, he was planned to give Ash an "ending". Through that is not done by winning a league.
Unfortunately even to the passed former series constructor, Pokemon League itself is just meaningless. As Shudo Takeshi said somewhere in his blog a line like: Everything was just a dream, when the protagonist one day becomes an adult, he realized how pointless it was to hold a dream during the childhood.

Sorry, but in Shudo Takeshi's eyes, Ash doesn't deserve to win a league. Through, his story does deserve a forever closure.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Everything was just a dream, when the protagonist one day becomes an adult, he realized how pointless it was to hold a dream during the childhood.
[IMG300]http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/178329-Not-Sure-If-Depressed-Or-Just-Perceiving-The-World-Accurately.jpg[/IMG300]


I agree with this.

- Give him the League win.
- Keep him travelling because the Pokemon Master goal remains as vague as ever.
- Introduce a new main character with a more tangible goal.
The issue though becomes the fact that Ash has to do the Champions League if he wins a league (unless they egregiously skip it), and lose to the E4. But then the only way for him to progress is every subsequent region, he has to win the league each time, and go slightly farther against the E4. Unless handled well, that would trivialize the gyms/league, as well as any rivals, since the audience will expect him to win.
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
The issue though becomes the fact that Ash has to do the Champions League if he wins a league (unless they egregiously skip it), and lose to the E4. But then the only way for him to progress is every subsequent region, he has to win the league each time, and go slightly farther against the E4. Unless handled well, that would trivialize the gyms/league, as well as any rivals, since the audience will expect him to win.
Egregiously skip the Champions League..? I don't even want to think about that tbh. I understand what ya mean about his progression and how trivial doing gyms would be, but it is possible that if he does win a league, he could go into the next one and run into another Tobias-like trainer in the finals. I'm not saying I would like it, but it would make it somewhat justified in a sense. However, how many times could you actually go down that route before everyone becomes even more alienated.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
[IMG300]http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/178329-Not-Sure-If-Depressed-Or-Just-Perceiving-The-World-Accurately.jpg[/IMG300]




The issue though becomes the fact that Ash has to do the Champions League if he wins a league (unless they egregiously skip it), and lose to the E4. But then the only way for him to progress is every subsequent region, he has to win the league each time, and go slightly farther against the E4. Unless handled well, that would trivialize the gyms/league, as well as any rivals, since the audience will expect him to win.
Maybe in the Champions League you have to go through a more demanding gym quest, similar to the Battle Frontier but for Champions. It would be hard though, that's probably why the writers won't let him win.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Egregiously skip the Champions League..? I don't even want to think about that tbh. I understand what ya mean about his progression and how trivial doing gyms would be, but it is possible that if he does win a league, he could go into the next one and run into another Tobias-like trainer in the finals. I'm not saying I would like it, but it would make it somewhat justified in a sense. However, how many times could you actually go down that route before everyone becomes even more alienated.
Well how much longer can they go down the current route? People were obviously disappointed, even some members of the show's staff, that Ash didn't win the Kalos League. He has now reached every stage of a league - the only thing left is for him to win, but that itself opens up another can of worms.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Why don't people count the Orange League or Fronteir Brains? Ash won that
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Why don't people count the Orange League or Fronteir Brains? Ash won that
Well the Orange League was basically just 1 full battle. A milestone for Ash but not that impressive overall since any strong trainer could have done that. The Battle Frontier; however, is till date the greatest achievement in Ash's life until he actually wins a league primarily thanks to how much the magnitude of this achievement was emphasized in DP.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
So basically the faux Leagues that operate like how they're meant do as dictated by the games don't count, the official leagues which uses a made up anime only tournament system however, do count.

It's a funny world
 
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