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Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Vini310, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Well... what does it really mean to "deserve to win?" If you're talking about it narrative-wise, Ash would have won the Kanto League since, well, he's the hero and the show was planned for a year and a half long run. However, between Porygon and sequel for Pokemon, they changed it so he'd move onto the other leagues and lost because of some BS outside of the Indigo League.

    Of course, the whole tournament thing is a far cry from the games where you just go up to the Elite Four and challenge them similar to that of a Gym Leader. This means Ash is now one of many vying for the Champion's title where some are first timers and some are rookies just getting started.

    Though realistically, we get that he's likely to not become champions, this isn't a realistic Anime. It's hopped up on "The Power Of Friendship" and "hot-blooded Shonen" tropes where the good guys win the day and dreams come true. Yet for some reason, this doesn't apply to the leagues and Grand Festivals. :/

    I always find this discrepancy weird...
  2. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    I actually do thoroughly enjoy the direction the writers have taken in regards to Ash performing better in every subsequent league with Ash's ensemble of pokemon improving as well. Actually, I'd prefer if Ash was the protagonist for the entire time rather than introducing another protagonist as a substitute in all honesty, but I'm sure that's an anomalous opinion.
  3. Isaac52

    Isaac52 Member

    I dunno about deserve to win, but he doesn't deserve all these seasons. Give him a win and move on to a new protagonist, making Ash's legacy a cool lore.
  4. nel3

    nel3 Crimson Dragon

    i really like that idea, give him a few league wins and give him the boot and let others come to shine. i still wouldnt be the same without Piakchu but its just so cyclical that he builds his team to a 2nd place finish and restarts all over again.

    i actually would've liked to see him win the Kalos league and head home to let some one else shine. they gave him a great battle in the league only to let him down in the end. SM was a great time to switch out the character imo. the new animation design is sufficiently different from previous series so it wouldn't too hard to make a split from the normal formula.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  5. MasterTobias

    MasterTobias Well-Known Member

    Well Brandon is much stronger than 95%of the ones who win a league and he defeated him before he even set foot on sinohn so from that point on he reached a point of where he could easily win a league if not for the skill reset/Tobias/Alain characters.
  6. nel3

    nel3 Crimson Dragon

    true, still the cyclical reset is old as hell. i can blame my selected short term memory when it comes to the strong trainers he faced in the past 20 years while still staying 10 yrs old. that point with Brandon likely was another great point to reset the series. it be great if they let him age in the series and swap out main character after they "aged out".
  7. danh19

    danh19 Member

  8. PokeStarWash

    PokeStarWash Member

    Did Ash deserve to win? Let me ask this: Did Ash outright to deserve to lose?

    Vs. Ritchie: That was Team Rocket's fault and Charizard was being a butt for no good reason.

    Vs. Tobias: Dude brought legendary pokémon. Should that even had been allowed? Writing plot wise that was just to stop Ash from winning.

    Vs. Alain: Me thinks that some of those pokémon Alain had on him weren't even his. Charizard and Metagross sure, but that Weavile was especially suspect.

    For everything other loss...Blaziken made sense, Meowth more-or-less. Unova League...that loss was beyond stupid, but I didn't want him to win and be stuck in that region anyway. Sinnoh and Kalos. He should have won. Period.
  9. Mrs. Oreo

    Mrs. Oreo Banned

    I could see him plausibly winning a league tourney at the end of the anime at best to give his journey some closure, but I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon cuz with the way the show is going I feel like it'll outlast all of us hee hee. ^^;
  10. Alloutℯ

    Alloutℯ Banned

    He at least deserved to win Sinnoh's League and Kalos's League, but the writers just had to ruin things. But even if Ash had won those, I don't think we would've gotten a new protagonist.
  11. Mrs. Oreo

    Mrs. Oreo Banned

    I agree about those league tournies since Ash was at his prime in both of them, tho I respected his Kalos league loss a bit more than his Sinnoh league loss cuz we had known for years exactly how strong Alain was, so him winning against Ash didn't seem as frustrating to me as when Tobias crushed Ash. ^^;
  12. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    They can't keep him losing the League forever.
    Another Unova situation of him getting a crappy rank compared to a previous saga would be beyond stupid and make people drop the show again like some did after Cameron beat him. And losing in the finals again? **** no, once was enough. Just move him on to the Champions League and lose in the first round. Or lose against the very first Elite Four member. Either one of those is fine. Do we really need Ash staying on television forever like Spongebob and Bart Simpson? He needs to grow up sometime. Just give the new guy a Pikachu and make it Ash's son, connection to old fans, you still have Pikachu, and a great jumping on point for new fans. Maybe even give Jessie/James a kid and make it his first rival.
    I question what's going on with people who think he SHOULDN'T win a League...... aside from them not liking Ash obviously.
  13. Alloutℯ

    Alloutℯ Banned

    Tobias was a plot device and even though it sucks how he beat Ash, at least we knew a few episodes ahead of time that he was tough because he owned a Darkrai.
  14. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    That would've helped, were it not for the fact we have literally no backstory for him or the Darkrai he has. Legendaries are special, even the weakest one, so you need a good reason for why someone has it. Tobias is the flattest character that's not a character of the day(and even then many out-depth him), and that's why we hate him
  15. I'm going to be honest. If Ash can lose to Team Rocket then he doesn't deserve to win the Alola League. Pretty awkward way to end his legacy. He should have beat Alain though.
  16. nickdt

    nickdt Well-Known Member

    LOL. If the Orange Island wasn't Official, then so wasn't the Battle Frontier or all other battles outside leagues or gyms and thus Ash never officially lost to Paul.
  17. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    It was official, sure. But still it wasn't like a traditional League which has a much gruelling competitive format and gives the winner access to competing in the Champion's League, thus giving him/her a chance to become a Champion. Orange League was a good achievement, but still it's nowhere close to being as important an achievement of winning a traditional regional League.
  18. Sure, he does. I'd buy it. He's already been second strongest in two leagues.
  19. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    Speaking of which, I just realized it's kind of weird that Ash beat Brandon who demolished Paul, but Paul demolished Ash most of the time
  20. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Well, Brandon didn't use the three Regis against Ash like against Paul. Plus Paul messed up with his emotions in his battle vs Brandon. And truly speaking, Paul didn't demolish Ash most of the time, he demolished him once in the Lake Acucity battle.

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