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Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

Lunala

Banned
I feel Ash has made enough progress as a trainer that winning a league would be justified. The writers are just delaying it as much as they can. So yeah he deserves it. He already has plenty of Pokemon that could believably win the league.
 

nandermind

Active Member
based on my own pov (forgot about orange league and battle frontier, these are just a sidekick tournament )
kanto : he shouldnt, since his pokemon not really tough tho
jotho and hoenn : he shouldnt, giving on his current pokemon. he's should train more on victory road rather than kicking leagues directly
sinnoh : just if tobias didnt appear....... ****
unnova : just if ash get meloetta.......... ****
kalos : wtf, ash should freaking win but he loses instead lol. coz kalos is where ash finally had a full build up pokemon
 

Raxacoricofallapatorius

Exalted Meme Junkie
I honestly am not a fan or Ash's character or battling style in the slightest, but the sheer bulk of his Pokemon seem to make up for it. Pikachu, for instance, has been with Ash for decades now, so while it isn't an impenetrable wall of electricity, it defeated a Regice, tied with a Latios, and (barring the fact that it lost to a freshly claimed Snivy) won a plethora of battles that few if any other Pokemon of its ilk could. Even the Pokemon that Ash has trained up in Kalos are worthy of recognition. So, while I argue that Ash's battling style may be a bit too rash and immature for the likes of the true elite, I feel that it's definitely time that he won a proper league. It wouldn't affect the story's progression very much. Evil would still be afoot, the region-locked reset would still occur, and so on.
 

MattySadler

Well-Known Member
I think it is quite clear that, at times, Ash has proven himself to be a more than competent Pokemon Trainer. Personally, aside from the first one, I don't think I would've had any qualms with the writers making him win any League competition. For whatever reason they choose for him not to win these League competitions and, instead, choose often-infuriating ways for him to not win, Cameron being one such example.
 

SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
I think it is quite clear that, at times, Ash has proven himself to be a more than competent Pokemon Trainer. Personally, aside from the first one, I don't think I would've had any qualms with the writers making him win any League competition. For whatever reason they choose for him not to win these League competitions and, instead, choose often-infuriating ways for him to not win, Cameron being one such example.
He was rather competent in the first region to. Ritchie clearly states he didn't lose a single Pokemon in battle up until he faced Ash. Goes to show that Ash is a pretty top notch trainer. Had Ash's Charizard listened to him, I'm sure he would have made the full battles.
 

Cetra

Pokémon Master
Imagine Mewtwo did not make Charizard forget that Ash sacrificed himself before the League started. Charizard cried. He would have never disobeyed.
 

marrycherrylips

Well-Known Member
yeah but he kind of ********ted his way to even qualifying for the league. stop and think about the fact that ash only actually battled for and won 3 of those badges..or 4, depending on how you feel about brock.

brock - sprinklers went off weakening onix allowing pikachu to dmage it and brock threw in the towel

misty - battle never actually finished and his sisters stepped in and gave ash the badge for saving the gym

lt.surge - first actual win of the region

erika - again , never actually won the battle. was interrupted by team rocket in a situation when he was already losing and then he got the badge when he saved the gym

sabrina - got the badge because he made her laugh? never at any time looked like he could have won. and he technically didnt even do that. the haunter that he made friends with reappeared and got sabrina to laugh. haunter was never his

koga and blaine - the other 2 badges he actually battled for and won

giovanni/team rocket - didnt battle giovanni and battled a cheating team rocket. would he have won if team rocket battled fairly? probably. would he have won if giovanni had battled himself? . based on everything that happened to that point i dont think so and i think the writers knew that and thats why they had ash battle team rocket. would probably have ended up in yet another charity badge

if the writers had had him win the league after all that then it would have been a joke
 
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SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
No, he definitely did only win like 3 of those 8 badges lol.

In Kanto, there were multiple ways to enter the League though. Schooling, that infamous Pokemon test, collecting badges, and some other things I do not quite remember... I don't feel bad that Ash progressed farther than Gary, or that he could have made it to full battles. Gen 1 is wrapped in a cloud of ambiguity and when fully evolved Pokes were literally GOD-TIER Pokemons.
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
Personally, aside from the first one, I don't think I would've had any qualms with the writers making him win any League competition.
Hmmm well he was facing tough competition in each one of the leagues, so I didn't think his odds of winning the championship were that good in any of them honestly. From a writing standpoint I get why he's lost them all cuz if he won a league he wouldn't have much of a reason to continue traveling from my perspective.
 

SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
Hmmm well he was facing tough competition in each one of the leagues, so I didn't think his odds of winning the championship were that good in any of them honestly. From a writing standpoint I get why he's lost them all cuz if he won a league he wouldn't have much of a reason to continue traveling from my perspective.
We all know Ash isn't the type to stay in one region for too long. He's a very adventurous type who wants to travel the whole world before conquering one specific region. Otherwise he'd be contradictory to his goals of becoming a Pokemon Master. If he won, he'd challenge the Elite 4. If he loses, he moves on. If he obtains the title of Pokemon Champion, then he can decline it and continue to move on as well.

Conquering one region takes a tremendous amount of effort, and it's clear we will never see some 10 year old as champion, as they're always adults (generally Elite 4 included). If Ash wants to win the whole thing, then he has to age. Winning a conference however, he should be able to do.
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
Should Satoshi win a Pokemon League conference? I don't see why he shouldn't since he has great skills at the end of each saga, but the anime just isn't like real life, so him ever winning is debatable.
 

FulgoreX

Banned
The writers must think having Ash make it to the finals and come in 2nd place was good enough because it never happened before, but as you can see from the backlash a loss is still a loss and after 20 years people wanted to see him win. In the end it doesn't really matter what "rank" Ash gets in a league, the fact that he keeps losing makes you realize it makes no difference, people will still be upset.
 

SoundVoltex

Well-Known Member
Should Satoshi win a Pokemon League conference? I don't see why he shouldn't since he has great skills at the end of each saga, but the anime just isn't like real life, so him ever winning is debatable.
Honestly, if it weren't for legendary level outliers (Tobias with two uber legendaries at his time and Alain with Legendary-Level Mega Charizard X), Ash would have straight up won two conferences already. It's debatable in the sense whether the writers want him to win or not, but otherwise he has more than enough to win.
 

EvanUn0

Active Member
I feel as if Ash deserves to win a league. One thing another user (Maldread, I think it is) pointed out how barring Unova, Ash has progressed in some form in every league.
Kanto was top 16
Johto was top 8 with reserves
Hoenn was top 8 without reserves (He can get that high with just his regional team)
Sinnoh was top 4 with reserves
Unova was... top 8 again
Kalos was top 2 without reserves

If Alola does have some form of league and he brings in reserves, then he should be good to go. If this were an issue of Ash always getting top 16/8 every league, then I'd be a bit more inclined to view this in a more negative light. If his DP or XY progression is anything to go off of, he's certainly grown to the point where he could take on a regional league and win. There's just always something in his way.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
If Alola does have some form of league and he brings in reserves, then he should be good to go.
problem is, no one ever wants Ash to use his reserves in the leagues, because their too enthralled by the new guys and believe they should handle it regardless of development and some turn out to be failures.
 

Lunala

Banned
problem is, no one ever wants Ash to use his reserves in the leagues, because their too enthralled by the new guys and believe they should handle it regardless of development and some turn out to be failures.
I like when he uses his reserves. Speak for yourself, fam.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
If the writers can extend the league I think Ash should use reserves, especially if Ash is going to win it. It is a good way to get redemption from previous leagues (Quilava, Noctowl), as well as establish yourself as powerhouses (Heracross, Sceptile).
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Hoenn, Ash lost to the eventual winner of the conference league, but it's really up in the air since Tyson was struggling harder than Ash before the full battles phase of the tournament. It's arguable that Ash was the second strongest trainer there though.
Following up with this and other posts that mention the Hoenn League since it's still fresh in my mind, Ash struggled--good struggles compared to Johto and Kanto, but they were still struggles. I don't see how having close calls meant being good enough to get to the finals and win the League. I may not be a competitor so I don't know the exact strengths of each Pokémon, but I believe Glalie and Corphish, maybe even Torkoal were the weaker members of Ash's team when he entered the League, like there was more he could've done with them. Which is funny because Glalie and Corphish WERE the ones who got him up to the battle with Katie, but it was still a fight to get there--and he continued to struggle. I'm surprised he didn't lose against Katie, she knew what she was doing, and this was him at his worst the entire League. (Using Thunderbolt on a Dugtrio? Really?) It was pure writer's influence luck Corphish was wacky when confused and threw her off long enough for Ash to make a comeback.

Meanwhile, in response to the bolded, Tyson showed the most promise the entire time, and though Ash gave him a good fight (they were about on equal terms, anyway), he didn't appear to have struggled once with his strategies, even during the (quick) glimpses of the battles with seen him in before his battle with Ash. That's why he won (although I wish we could've seen the tail-end of the final fight). Maybe if Ash went with Pikachu in Grovyle's place against Metagross, he could've had a chance since the strategy he used with Grovyle was the same as with Pikachu?
 
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