jnshucker12
Well-Known Member
Only a few of the movies are canon. Some are not canon. The movie with the second Mewtwo was confusing.
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Does Ash really deserve to win a league?
- Thread starter Vini310
- Start date
RedJirachi
Veteran member
They're more canon than Dragonball movies, but less canon than the Clone Wars is to Star Wars. One way to see it
Izanagi777
Well-Known Member
Well, i thought at least he deserved to win in XY and D/P although i obviously understand why the writer hasn't make him win yet (or if he ever will)
Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
To be honest with you, I'm not sure how long the anime department can keep up with Ash as the main protagonist and get closer to winning one, but then fall short. I really do feel like they are holding on to him for such a long time to the point that he is recognizable for not being able to win a league. That status quo is very much loved by the anime directors and the writers. But remember, they are attracting the anime to younger audiences in Japan (funny how that works). To be honest with you, with the Greninja build up that happened in the XY/XYZ series, I thought for sure Ash would win this time around. However, the directors said otherwise, and when we first saw the finished product, that angered many fans. What was the point for the Greninja build-up when Ash then can't seal the deal? Why build it up to that point?
I will say this though: Ash's best placement is really in the Kalos league. However, when we first saw that happened, it left a horrible after taste. I always wonder if the anime directors would keep up with the decision to prevent Ash from winning the league. Could they also prevent Ash from becoming the first champion in a future league? Like I said, it is really up to the anime directors because they make these episodes months in advance. Why hasn't the director make him win yet? I can understand from a marketing point that they want to keep Ash longer, but if they keep doing it, they may lose their younger audiences. Some of the younger audiences would love to see Ash win a future league someday because they want to see that pro rather than the constant con. I just hope the anime department finds the right time to let Ash win one.
I will say this though: Ash's best placement is really in the Kalos league. However, when we first saw that happened, it left a horrible after taste. I always wonder if the anime directors would keep up with the decision to prevent Ash from winning the league. Could they also prevent Ash from becoming the first champion in a future league? Like I said, it is really up to the anime directors because they make these episodes months in advance. Why hasn't the director make him win yet? I can understand from a marketing point that they want to keep Ash longer, but if they keep doing it, they may lose their younger audiences. Some of the younger audiences would love to see Ash win a future league someday because they want to see that pro rather than the constant con. I just hope the anime department finds the right time to let Ash win one.
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Nope, that was never confirmed. The Pokemon Master goal is as vague and mysterious as ever.
Ash can easily win any League and proclaim 'that was awesome, but I still have a LONG way to go before I can become Pokemon Master' and keep travelling through other regions. There is literally no reason for Ash NOT to win.
snorlax512
Well-Known Member
Except after he wins they can't reset him as easily and justify him losing to random trainers and pokemon.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
Ash definitely deserved to win both the Sinnoh and Kalos Leagues. Bringing someone like Tobias with legendaries was pointless in my opinion. And Ash's maturity and competence in XY was at its peak, so he deserved to win the Kalos League obviously. He had every reason to defeat Alain in the League as he already lost to him multiple times before the League. Ash-Greninja was portrayed strong enough to defeat MC-X, as evident in their second battle. There was no point in showing off Ash-Greninja's fully Giant Orange shuriken and still MC-X not being defeated. That Giant Orange shuriken wrecking MC-X would've been an ideal finish to the League.
It never presented a problem for them before, he has reached semifinals and finals before and he still loses to random trainers and Pokemon.
Why would winning the league be any different?
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
Well I agree with this. A lot of fanfiction writers have made Ash win a League and still had him continue traveling.
snorlax512
Well-Known Member
You're probably right. I still think it would be harder though if he has the actual title of Champion on him.
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
A lot of fanfiction writers have also made him an overpowered God Mode Sue. There is nothing worse than invincible trainer without altering Ash's character traits. It's called development for a reason.
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345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
One problem is that if Ash wins a League, he has to then challenge the E4 and regional champion. So the writers would then have difficulty in moving him to the next region. But that's no excuse to make him lose 6 Leagues in a row. They could just bring in a new protagonist. I feel that Ash has been portrayed as an eternal loser for too long.
And U.N. Owen, I completely disagree with you. I have read a lot of fanfictions where Ash is an seemingly invincible trainer who hardly loses battles, and yet is a very warm hearted trainer who is very close to his Pokemon, treats them as brothers, and goes extraordinary lengths to rescue his Pokemon and travelling companions, fending off evil organizations. They haven't altered Ash's basic character traits, and yet made him an extremely strong trainer, and yet maintained a brilliant storyline. Those fanfictions have gotten plenty of good reviews as well as follows. So it's not bad anyway.
And U.N. Owen, I completely disagree with you. I have read a lot of fanfictions where Ash is an seemingly invincible trainer who hardly loses battles, and yet is a very warm hearted trainer who is very close to his Pokemon, treats them as brothers, and goes extraordinary lengths to rescue his Pokemon and travelling companions, fending off evil organizations. They haven't altered Ash's basic character traits, and yet made him an extremely strong trainer, and yet maintained a brilliant storyline. Those fanfictions have gotten plenty of good reviews as well as follows. So it's not bad anyway.
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CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I think: 1. if Ash beats the league ( like example he beat Alain and won Lumiose conference) that is one step closer to be Master.
2.If he beats all Kalos E4 that is even closer.
3.If he beats Diantha; super close. My problem is if he beats 1. will he still travel in other region?(I'd say yes)
But if he beats 2 and 3? ( I think he won't.).
But I am pretty sure in 6 vs 6; currently he won't even beat first E4. ( if A-G returns, it would raise the bar, but still he would lose, I mean 6 Malva's Pokemon vs Ash's 6 Pokemon.) In one-vs-one ( A-G vs Malva's Pokemon; he may win, but 6 vs 6 is official in league I guess)
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
Sure, Ash deserves to win a league, but do you know who else deserves to win a league? Nearly all the competitors in the league thinks they deserve to win a league. There can only be one winner, and in a single-elimination bracket of 64+ entrants, it is rigorous and difficult to scrape through competitors who entered with the intent of winning it all. Ash being able to consistently place top 8 in this setting is really impressive, and that alone is already an amazing feat. Ash is definitely capable of winning any league at this point, but winning 6 or more straight against elite trainers is really difficult no matter how hard you try or how experienced you are. Anyways, not being able to win 6 leagues does not make Ash a choker. Consistent top 8 placement is far from a choker.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
That's still no excuse to lose 6 Leagues. The writers have done it poorly.
Ash-Pikachu
Well-Known Member
Each of the battles in the Kalos League were wonderfully written and each of the trainers were at least illustrated as competent trainers that had hefty battle experience, so the writers at least did a decent job in justifying Ash's loss here, but it was unfortunate that Ash lost considering how powerful his Kalos team was. It was a great battle nonetheless, but Greninja's climactic finisher should've enabled Ash to seize victory here, but Charizard holding his ground wasn't preposterous considering he was depicted as a resilient fighter that could maul through 10 Mega Pokémon including Malva's.
I'd say he deserved the win, especially when Ash-Greninja was likely above an Elite 4's mega pokemon.
I'd say he deserved the win, especially when Ash-Greninja was likely above an Elite 4's mega pokemon.
Izanagi777
Well-Known Member
Well, yeah.. I completely agree with your opinion man, especially with the whole Greninja things, given so far it's the best buildup that Ash pokemon ever had, only to lost in the final would be disappointed for practically anyone (I already know that he'll lost but at least even i thought there's some slight possibility that Ash could triumph in the end, given the circumstance) but yeah, too bad that once again, he lost.. I always thought that they always use Ash and Pikachu because they're the face of Pokemon and i don't think they will change them anytime soon.. On the contrary with the west, in Japan however both Ash and Pikachu are very popular and even Pokemon is one of the highest rating anime there, so yeah.. with these facts i thought the directors won't change any kind of direction and will continue use Pokemon anime as a way of marketing for the newest generation of pokemon games..
Just like you however, i do want to see Ash at least winning the league.. Sure he has won Orange League and Battle Frontier, but i thought 2 of them are a side competition instead of main ones like Ash faced in the XY.. So yeah, we can only hope but i don't think we can see it anytime soon.. Perhaps when the latest generation of Pokemon games release and Pokemon decide to won't release any other new generation, then maybe we can finally see Ash win the league although i myself can't really gauge when will those time come..
wrong you won't become pokemon master by winning a league. BW Meloetta arc proved it: Cynthia is always considered sinnoh champion and best trainer despite tobias winning the league months ago.
even in game you need at least beat elite and champion to become pokemon master.
RedJirachi
Veteran member
Considering he's improved his record, reaching the Top 2 in Kalos, I say he's trying his darnest to deserve a win