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Does it concern you that Iris/Cilan had shorter runs than the other main characters?

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nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
I don't like Iris, and if I told you why the mods would be on my arse again lol, so all I'll say is good riddance.

Cilan on the other hand I'll miss, a lot. He was quirky and weird like Brock was, and his little outbursts about god know's what + food metaphors reminded me a lot of how Brock would always hit on girls and the characters would me annoyed or confused by it.

If he doesn't return for XY, which I'm pretty sure he isn't, I can't say I won't miss him, he didn't really do anything, but he was a fun and interesting character. He was a joy to watch and hopefully he makes a comeback in a special or something.
 
Does this really matter? At least to me it doesn't. I watch the series for Pokemon and Pokemon alone. I don't care what the human characters do in the series except maybe Ash. Its really hard for me understand why people care about the human characters so much. I know at the end of the saga they would replace said character no matter how good or bad they are. I hope they would just dump human characters altogether. Just Ash traveling through the regions with lots of developed Pokemon.
 
Does this really matter? At least to me it doesn't. I watch the series for Pokemon and Pokemon alone. I don't care what the human characters do in the series except maybe Ash. Its really hard for me understand why people care about the human characters so much. I know at the end of the saga they would replace said character no matter how good or bad they are. I hope they would just dump human characters altogether. Just Ash traveling through the regions with lots of developed Pokemon.

I think it matters to some people because they develop a liking to a character. Look how popular the girls are, people obviously like them. So it matters a lot to some people, not all, but some.
 

Cresselia92

SM Ash = New Ash
I'm not really concerned about the fact that Iris and Cilan got only three years. What matters the most is what they've accomplished in those three years.

I feel that Iris has been developed enough and can leave the show without problem, but I wish Cilan got more serious focus. However, I'd take him going away at the end of BW instead of being dragged during XY, especially if he becomes a background character.

So no. It doesn't concern me at all.
 

BlueVapor

Well-Known Member
Does this really matter? At least to me it doesn't. I watch the series for Pokemon and Pokemon alone. I don't care what the human characters do in the series except maybe Ash. Its really hard for me understand why people care about the human characters so much. I know at the end of the saga they would replace said character no matter how good or bad they are. I hope they would just dump human characters altogether. Just Ash traveling through the regions with lots of developed Pokemon.

I always thought that Ash would travel alone with his Pokémon for the final region or whatever. But I used to grow attached to the characters when it was Ash, Misty and Brock. Very attached to them. Even when May came, I grew attached to her as well, but after that I think I caught onto the writers cycle of introducing and replacing characters. So when Dawn came, I just couldn't feel the EXACT SAME way. :/

But to answer the topic, no it doesn't concern me. I've felt quite neutral to Iris and Cilan for all of BW, and I think we all knew Iris would be gone no matter what and Cilan only had a small chance of staying. If anything, I just think this further proves that the writers just can't quite figure out what to do with characters for their entire run.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I'm not sure how I feel about Iris' development. She didn't get as much as May or Dawn, but she's roughly on par with Misty. Although I guess that's expected for female characters who aren't given a major plotline from the games.
 

Shneak

this is a Nessa x Sonia stan account ✨
It doesn't concern me because I eventually expected it.

They should have done a better job at making us care for them. Cilan got lackluster development and Iris got a ton of it, but it ultimately didn't make her improve that much. Georgia and Burgundy were probably the best thing that happened to them, and even they were shafted.

I'm not going to shed tears because I've grown tired of Iris since the break-up episode and Cilan doesn't hold a candle to a potential Kalos companion.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Cilan did get more screentime/development than the AG/DP version of Brock though. Although not as much as classic Brock.

Iris also got a number of episodes about her past, she competed in 3 or 4 tournaments, she got a powerful Dragonite and had a rival. She arguably got more than Misty did in a smaller timeframe.
 

Regality

Digital King
We want more Brock!
 

Pokememes

I am the pokémaster!
The way I see it, time does matter, but only when there is a progress being made between characters, goals, and pokemon.
Misty got the most time on the show out of female leads iirc, but honestly I wish she had more due to not having a goal which records her sucess and progress. I liked that may and dawn left after their respective regions because I felt they got their ribbons and their pokemon teams were pretty decent, not much else could be done. Iris can't really make any strives forward because her goal is bland... Dragon master. She hasn't even evolved a single dragon. Honestly as much as I'd like to see her continue trying, and catching more dragons, I'd say axew should just evolve and she is good to leave.

Cilan is interesting, cause I could see him becoming a coordinator, but if not his time is up...
A Brock return for XY would be cool because France, city of love, it just fits

So ill say, if the character is handled right, they don't need more time, iris and cilan deserve more time but I can't really say I'd enjoy the anime with them continuing to XY
Only other characters that DESERVE (in my opinion which I'm entitled to) are misty and tracey.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
To be fair all sidekick characters in this show are handled almost the same. Misty/Brock/Tracey/Max/Iris/Cilan all got the same amount of focus excluding the difference in number of episodes.

It seems like the only time a travel companion gets a lot of screentime is when you're the player character from the games and do a quest from the games. Its quite possible the XY girl will be another May or Dawn type character too.
 

Nodame

Misty <3
To be fair all sidekick characters in this show are handled almost the same. Misty/Brock/Tracey/Max/Iris/Cilan all got the same amount of focus excluding the difference in number of episodes.

It seems like the only time a travel companion gets a lot of screentime is when you're the player character from the games and do a quest from the games. Its quite possible the XY girl will be another May or Dawn type character too.
I kinda agree with you, except dawn is more developed and had more focus than may.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Three years is still ample time.. A fourth year of doing very little isn't exactly going to help them, so they may as well push off and make way for someone else.

To have be done little with whoever comes in their place? Sweeping something under the rug wont fix issues this anime suffers from in longer run.

Arguably extra year imo could have made difference in overall impression Iris or Cilan presence would leave on anime and fandom. It would mean extra time to properly bring something to an end giving them better planned and more believable growth without rushing things up. Explore more on their rivalries with Langley and Burgundy which are now irretriveable gone, do more with their teams and have their fans chance to enjoy in their presence and entertainment they bring to show.

And Brock is proof that just because you keep a character an insanely long time doesn't mean they get any better.

Im not sure how Brock alone proves anything? Thats same like saying how treatment of Gary in OS prove alone in what way Ash future rivals would be treated. Which was anything but case with Paul and Trip.

How treatment of Ash Johto team will convey itself to any future gteam Ash acquires.

Or how treatment of first male replacement Tracey indicates in what way any new future male is going to be handled.
See where this goes?

Each character has different personality and role he/she performs. Therefore we don't really know in what way someone else would be treated in case longer stays is on repertoire.

Speaking of Brock i don't necessarily think his long stay was bad either. We learned more about character, see him collect all kind of new fantastic pokemon, work on his breeder skills and give us many memorable moments with humor and flauntig dynamic he brought. I still stand by what i said how his best moments came from Kanto and Hoenn followed by Johto.

I disagree honestly. I don't think the people that got tired of characters like Ash, TR, Misty, Brock, etc. can all be accused of this because they have short attention spans or don't appreciate long-term character arcs and you can't generalize people like that. People that didn't like the way Ash, TR, Brock and Misty over the years and preferred characters not to overstay their welcome have some very valid reasons IMO. The problem is that they either become repetitive (TR), inconsistency with characters (TR and Ash), character being too much pushed into the background at a certain point (Misty and Brock), becoming unbearable to watch (TR). There's a lot more to it.

Perhaps i should reinstate what i said, because i didn't wanted to give out impression how this was the only reason. But i can't deny how good number of those fans get quickly tired from any character writers introduce in this show. I met several times mindset of people being bored of character after just few months wanting them replaced. For example Iris was one year less in show than May or Dawn,or two compared to Misty barely reaching 3 years yet there were people which got sick of her just after first 6 months she joined cast. Showing how its not so much long stay, but more way writers treat someone in what way he will be received. Or character not being what some expected or wished them to be. Because some can be acquired taste requiring time to have them grow on you.

Naturally they don't speak in everyone name because there are people whose detest toward certain characters came either from disliking way they developed not changing in way they wanted them to be, because they grown fed up with following their personalities and dreams or because few negative experiences as whole outweight anything positive about someone starting to dislike character,. Regardless if writers fixed things up restoring their appeal or didn't.

Which applies to everyone, whether its original crew and antagonists or newer protagonists too like May, Dawn, Iris etc.

I just wanted to say how longer character stays and as more of fans come into the show getting familiarized with them their popularity and supporters but also amount of complaints will continue to increase because of simply staying for long enough to build higher base of likers and dislikers. Which plays factor into why bigger number of complaints can be found in Ash, rather than May case too.

I wasn't trying to imply how group of people represent general view from fans in general or how those which complain can be simplified in only two groups. So apologies if my post have caused misinterpretation.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
To have be done little with whoever comes in their place? Sweeping something under the rug wont fix issues this anime suffers from in longer run.

I'd rather see a pair of fresh faces come along and do nothing for a few years, instead of the same couple sticking around and becoming stale, which in turn makes them way less likeable..
 

GhostlyChrome7

Well-Known Member
To have be done little with whoever comes in their place? Sweeping something under the rug wont fix issues this anime suffers from in longer run.

Arguably extra year imo could have made difference in overall impression Iris or Cilan presence would leave on anime and fandom. It would mean extra time to properly bring something to an end giving them better planned and more believable growth without rushing things up. Explore more on their rivalries with Langley and Burgundy which are now irretriveable gone, do more with their teams and have their fans chance to enjoy in their presence and entertainment they bring to show.




Im not sure how Brock alone proves anything? Thats same like saying how treatment of Gary in OS prove alone in what way Ash future rivals would be treated. Which was anything but case with Paul and Trip.

How treatment of Ash Johto team will convey itself to any future gteam Ash acquires.

Or how treatment of first male replacement Tracey indicates in what way any new future male is going to be handled.
See where this goes?

Each character has different personality and role he/she performs. Therefore we don't really know in what way someone else would be treated in case longer stays is on repertoire.

Speaking of Brock i don't necessarily think his long stay was bad either. We learned more about character, see him collect all kind of new fantastic pokemon, work on his breeder skills and give us many memorable moments with humor and flauntig dynamic he brought. I still stand by what i said how his best moments came from Kanto and Hoenn followed by Johto.



Perhaps i should reinstate what i said, because i didn't wanted to give out impression how this was the only reason. But i can't deny how good number of those fans get quickly tired from any character writers introduce in this show. I met several times mindset of people being bored of character after just few months wanting them replaced. For example Iris was one year less in show than May or Dawn,or two compared to Misty barely reaching 3 years yet there were people which got sick of her just after first 6 months she joined cast. Showing how its not so much long stay, but more way writers treat someone in what way he will be received. Or character not being what some expected or wished them to be. Because some can be acquired taste requiring time to have them grow on you.

Naturally they don't speak in everyone name because there are people whose detest toward certain characters came either from disliking way they developed not changing in way they wanted them to be, because they grown fed up with following their personalities and dreams or because few negative experiences as whole outweight anything positive about someone starting to dislike character,. Regardless if writers fixed things up restoring their appeal or didn't.

Which applies to everyone, whether its original crew and antagonists or newer protagonists too like May, Dawn, Iris etc.

I just wanted to say how longer character stays and as more of fans come into the show getting familiarized with them their popularity and supporters but also amount of complaints will continue to increase because of simply staying for long enough to build higher base of likers and dislikers. Which plays factor into why bigger number of complaints can be found in Ash, rather than May case too.

I wasn't trying to imply how group of people represent general view from fans in general or how those which complain can be simplified in only two groups. So apologies if my post have caused misinterpretation.

I completely agree with you I've been trying to say this for the longest time, but I couldn't find the words.

I'd much rather keep characters around than let new characters come in and gradually receive more and more hate as fans blow little issues with them out proportion i.e Iris calling Ash a Kid or Dawn being very feminine.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
I'd rather see a pair of fresh faces come along and do nothing for a few years, instead of the same couple sticking around and becoming stale, which in turn makes them way less likeable..

Character doesn't become stale if he sticks around ,he becomes stale to people if writers don't treat him well.
If someone is kept in show he can be refreshed with new pokemon,new subplots in his story along with writers expanding more on his past and problems to keep him interesting doing new things with it.

Its like fine wine,it has potential to only get better with time.
Nevertheless we cannot associate every character with way those we may feel became stale ended up being treated because each character is different with writers handling him differently.

New face wont solve issues writers made with previous characters only continuing on next companions suffering from same problems since writers don't have to innovate and work with something they have finding ways to keep things fresh and inject more substance to someone story. Making story more consistent and continuity driven in that case.
While depriving those which were negatively received from opportunity for redemption becoming liked by fandom ending forever marked as "black sheep". Because stale can become interesting, unpopular can become popular.

Coincidence or not most other show which don't cycle constantly characters having stable cast which advance forward pursuing dreams while going in same direction usually has more engaging story, better on going plot and consistent following which keeps its ties to past allowing for narrative to be taken to new level.
 
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Caseydia

Ace Trainer
So what if they have shorter runs or not? It's not like they are doing anything with them for them to be on the show even for this long. I don't even get why people are counting since "Da" was just nothing but a big filler gap anyways.
 

noakai

Well-Known Member
IMO the problem is that we have no guarantee one way or another when it comes to the writing on this show, so we have to rely on experience, and in most cases, experience tells us that more episodes on this show does not equal better writing for a character. At all. What mostly happens is that at some point, the characters hit a plateau on their arc and then that's it. They're mostly the same until they get replaced. And since we're going into a new region and are likely to be getting at least one new companion, chances are that if Dent or Iris stayed, they'd take even more of a backseat to whatever "character arc" the new one(s) would be getting. Which at best means stagnation for a long while until maybe the writers run out of steam with the new ones and toss Iris or Dent a bone. I think giving them a "clean slate" to work with in terms of characters increases the chances that the writing will be at least a tiny bit better. Maybe their arcs will be paced better so it doesn't seem like they don't run out of steam so fast or it doesn't feel like it was left until too late so it has to be crammed in. It's not guaranteed of course but neither is Dent or Iris's writing getting better if they did stay.
 
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Vernikova

Champion
I'd much rather keep characters around than let new characters come in and gradually receive more and more hate as fans blow little issues with them out proportion i.e Iris calling Ash a Kid or Dawn being very feminine.

Blowing little issues up happen all of the time in fandoms and shouldn't be used as an argument as to whether a character should be kept. After all, the initial hate will die down as it did for May and Dawn and more people will come to like the character as the show goes on.
 
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