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Does Journey’s series like to troll the Pokémon fandom?

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
I know this is a bit premature, but I would like to ask y'all opinion n Pokemon Journeys so far, adding disappointments vs. successes in the balance, for you, where is it on your personal list?
SM=DP/SM=DP/Kanto+OI=XY/XY=Kanto+OI/JN/BW/AG/Johto

Although to be fair I should probably count Johto in OS since I'm counting BF in AG, so

SM=DP/XY/JN/OS/BW/AG

No hate towards AG, i just personally find it boring even though BF is nicely written
BW is terribly written but fun, I've been rewatching lot of its clips lately
JN has been mediocre in many parts but has also done great stuff. It's really inconsistent but considering all of it I find enough value in it to place it above the other 3 mentioned
As much as I dunk on XYZ, the first two XY arcs are top tier, and XYZ has cool battles and the best villain plot. Plus JN did a really good job redeeming Serena, idc if the blue ribbon wasn't present there when the symbolism of what it represented was in the episode
 
Ah yes, I'm going to take delusional arguments from Scott who's created an account every other week(and now basically every other day) to push utter bullshit and whose " predictions " have been utterly obliterated as a total joke literally only coming out of a need to run defense for Journeys. If you were one of the same people running hilarious mental gymnastics for what happened in the Greninja episode, I'm immediately valuing your " opinion " a bit less seriously. Ditto for people who weren't fans of XY and XY characters in the first place and never understood why people liked them.

I'll address each point anyway before he inevitably gets banned again and his posts removed. I can write these posts all day and have already done these arguments before.
Clemont was literally in a training battle to show how powerful those new moves were. I have no idea how you think he was disrespected, his Pokemon got KO'd but that wasn't even a proper battle. The whole episode showed how much Clemont had grown teaching Ash's pokemon moves and recognizing what Sirfetch'd was trying to do, and we also know he officially challenged Drasna at some point off-screen. And yes, Ash is supposed to be much stronger now.
Clemont/Bonnie is one of the few areas where I've specifically praised JN for some decent character interactions, however, besides that, the episode fails in several departments. Incredibly horrible animation and bad action direction. Haphazardly paced episode with the battle being rushed and the actual " teaching " moment being much less substantial then you're actually making it out to be. Did people forget that the episode involved two incredibly boring OHKO moves and as I mentioned, contributing much less in helping Ash?
How was Greninja's return episode pointless? We saw it school Ash's Lucario and defeat it easily, then decide to help train it by summoning it's aura, and then joined Ash and Lucario for a double attack about the vines. The whole episode showed Greninja as strong as he was, and the aura sphere that carried over to Lucario is what he used to defeat Raihan. I do agree removing the AshGreninja scenes in the flashback is odd, but not everything else.
I don't think it was pointless. I think it shived Greninja's characterization and development heavily in favor of a mentorial role that lost a lot of value to me because of that coupled with again, traditional horrible JN animation. Can't believe people are understating how bad the retcon is for XY considering how significant Ash-Greninja was.

Literally, you're still writing what is essentially a summary for an episode. You can't even run proper defense for Journeys Scott. It's embarrassing. We saw Greninja " school " Lucario. And? He joined Ash and Lucario for a double attack about the vines. So? Why is this respectful? These are literally one-line summaries Scott.
We know good and well why they kept Ash and Serena's interactions brief, it was the best way to handle her return showing how much she grew on her own without shipping overtaking the episode. Most Serena and Amour fans loved the episode when it aired and you can look back at the old posts.
You can read my two essays for the Serena episode, both of which I think have aged incredibly well and has led to more Serena/Amour fans looking at the episode skeptically.

Episode discussion essay: https://forums.serebii.net/threads/...nd-reunions-1194.697367/page-19#post-19356172

And for Amour: https://forums.serebii.net/threads/amourshipping-thread-v3.653815/page-312#post-19357297

TL;DR: They weren't good episodes
 
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Mespritan

Another idiot Scott account. Banned.
Clemont/Bonnie is one of the few areas where I've specifically praised JN for some decent character interactions, however, besides that, the episode fails in several departments. Incredibly horrible animation and bad action direction. Haphazardly paced episode with the battle being rushed and the actual " teaching " moment being much less substantial then you're actually making it out to be. Did people forget that the episode involved two incredibly boring OHKO moves and as I mentioned, contributing much less in helping Ash?
The animation issues aside, which I don't think were that bad in that episode because there was barely any action in it (the Drasna battle was a mess, but that's a different issue), the episode had Clemont and Ash catch up with one another and Bonnie had the same cute moments from XY while also maturing a bit. The moves Ash used in this ep he defeated Drasna which, even though I agree that was one of the weakest PWC battles in general. I'm also not sure how it was paced bad because I never thought that training battle at the end was going to get a lot of screentime. People wrongly assumed it would be Ash vs. Clemont Round 2 or something, but I figured it wouldn't be.

I don't think it was pointless. I think it shived Greninja's characterization and development heavily in favor of a mentorial role that lost a lot of value to me because of that coupled with again, traditional horrible JN animation. Can't believe people are understating how bad the retcon is for XY considering how significant Ash-Greninja was.
I thought the Greninja ep was animated well, we're clearly not seeing the same animation issues. The Drasna battle was animated poorly, unless you're talking about those "still screens" that showed Greninja jump over the vines in a few shots and that doesn't bother me. Greninja basically became its own person (sort of similar to Mewtwo), where it's like its own trainer. It mentored Lucario and showed how strong it was in its base form. Its interactions with Ash also showed how much they're on equal terms now. I'll give you the flashbacks were stupid, but it is what it is.

I've read your posts before, you put too much emphasis on the blue ribbon when Serena's crush on Ash is still evident as shown at the end of the episode. The writers wanted to show Serena stand on her own and how far she's come without shipping taking over, hence why Ash was intentionally delayed by Wallace seeing her. Serena was basically repeating to Koharu the same advice Ash told her in XY, basically keeping Ash in her heart. The whole final scene on the docks was beautifully done as well. I'm not even much a shipper but it tugged at my heartstrings. I also liked how on the contest side they had Serena specialize in her appeal (note in Contests the trainer is not supposed to dance around with the pokemon like in tripokalons), while also wrapping up Koharu's arc too. Seeing some other stuff like Braixen evolved was an added bonus.
 

Ragnarok4

Orbtus Champion
@Power Up

summary of your review : criticism to technical aspects of the animation of Journeys and the unconfirmed retcon of greninja (tomioka mentioned it recently? )

Yeah, uh, I don't see how the XY characters have had a bad return
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
Can we please stop here instead of rehasing arguments from both sides once again? There's literally nothing new being said here except toxicity that's going to spread coz ones an annoying doppelganger who keeps making accounts and has zero sense of self worth apparently after being banned from the forums, and the other is too arrogant to not antagonise the other side of the argument

Just stop
This thread is a bomb waiting to explode, just lock it
 
The animation issues aside, which I don't think were that bad in that episode because there was barely any action in it (the Drasna battle was a mess, but that's a different issue), the episode had Clemont and Ash catch up with one another and Bonnie had the same cute moments from XY while also maturing a bit. The moves Ash used in this ep he defeated Drasna which, even though I agree that was one of the weakest PWC battles in general. I'm also not sure how it was paced bad because I never thought that training battle at the end was going to get a lot of screentime. People wrongly assumed it would be Ash vs. Clemont Round 2 or something, but I figured it wouldn't be.
`What exactly am I supposed to respond to here Scott? You're still only giving me a summary of the episode. I described to you exactly why the episode was mediocre and I'm given nothing in return for why it was good.
I thought the Greninja ep was animated well, we're clearly not seeing the same animation issues. The Drasna battle was animated poorly, unless you're talking about those "still screens" that showed Greninja jump over the vines in a few shots and that doesn't bother me. Greninja basically became its own person (sort of similar to Mewtwo), where it's like its own trainer. It mentored Lucario and showed how strong it was in its base form. Its interactions with Ash also showed how much they're on equal terms now. I'll give you the flashbacks were stupid, but it is what it is.
...No, it wasn't. If you're telling me you watched the first couple scenes with Greninja using his Double Team and attacking the vines as well as the incredibly short Lucario v Greninja battle as examples of good animation, I don't know what to tell you. Jank galore, stills, bad boarding, there's literally nothing to praise for a production standpoint.

These aren't examples of good animation.

a2b468268e9b40c18c00ce43785eed329288d57e.gif

d16a1d633e8d2f54cb6ab2a65864bfa06de0c2a4.gif


There's barely any " animation " here in the first place, just flimsy cardboard cut outs moving with no energy or dynamism.

Greninja was already its own person at the end of XY(literally the entire point of the ending of XYZ), that episode added nothing in that department and like I said, it's great that Greninja mentored Lucario, but like I said, it loses value when that process involves the aurafication of a massive component of XY. That's a lot more than just " stupid. "

I've read your posts before, you put too much emphasis on the blue ribbon when Serena's crush on Ash is still evident as shown at the end of the episode. The writers wanted to show Serena stand on her own and how far she's come without shipping taking over, hence why Ash was intentionally delayed by Wallace seeing her. Serena was basically repeating to Koharu the same advice Ash told her in XY, basically keeping Ash in her heart. The whole final scene on the docks was beautifully done as well. I'm not even much a shipper but it tugged at my heartstrings. I also liked how on the contest side they had Serena specialize in her appeal (note in Contests the trainer is not supposed to dance around with the pokemon like in tripokalons), while also wrapping up Koharu's arc too. Seeing some other stuff like Braixen evolved was an added bonus.
I've specifically addressed every single of these arguments in both posts and why they fall flat under scrutiny, I know you've read one of them specifically because I remember you arguing against me and essentially your final response before your posts were removed and your account banned was " It doesn't matter because I liked it. " So I'm questioning how much you really internalized what I said considering you didn't really address any of my core complains and offered up meaningless one line summaries.

@Power Up

summary of your review : criticism to technical aspects of the animation of Journeys and the unconfirmed retcon of greninja (tomioka mentioned it recently? )

Yeah, uh, I don't see how the XY characters have had a bad return
" Unconfirmed " retcon. Jesus, apparently people literally need a divine creed stating ASH-GRENINJA WAS RETCONNED. At the end of the show, the end result is the end result. I can't provide that for you, so if you want to believe that it's unconfirmed or XY characters had good returns, more power to you.
 

KirliaToon50

Who's Chloe? Who's Goh? Please do Long term hiatus
Can we please stop here instead of rehasing arguments from both sides once again? There's literally nothing new being said here except toxicity that's going to spread coz ones an annoying doppelganger who keeps making accounts and has zero sense of self worth apparently after being banned from the forums, and the other is too arrogant to not antagonise the other side of the argument

Just stop
This thread is a bomb waiting to explode, just lock it
Yeah but at least I stopped doing drama now so It's better to lock it than sorry.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
@Power Up

summary of your review : criticism to technical aspects of the animation of Journeys and the unconfirmed retcon of greninja (tomioka mentioned it recently? )

Yeah, uh, I don't see how the XY characters have had a bad return
Literally all of the XY characters were important to the Plot of a Journeys MC and were used properly: Clemont (and Bonnie is mandatory if Clemont is here) helped with Sirfetch'd and Dracovis's training, Korrina and Greninja (even with "retcon" helped to Lucario and Serena helped to Chloe and showed how much she has progressed since her last appearence.

Some of those episodes could be better but they were far from bad, in fact, I enjoyed all of them.

Using this excuse as an argument of this conspiracy theory of Tomiyasu having favouritism for certain characters/series is stupid and I am tired of read the same BS over and over again in so many threads.

Just stop watching if you don't like whatever this series do instead of torturing yourself.
 

Dragonsoldier77

Bittersweet Satisfaction
I know this is a bit premature, but I would like to ask y'all opinion n Pokemon Journeys so far, adding disappointments vs. successes in the balance, for you, where is it on your personal list?
XY>DP>AG>OS>SM>JN>BW

For whatever good JN has, they also have some very low lows. If we’re going by disappointment alone then JN is easily far at the bottom. Never have any kind of show wasted so much potential and made me question their competence to this level.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

8/18: Never forgot what they took away from us
I know this is a bit premature, but I would like to ask y'all opinion n Pokemon Journeys so far, adding disappointments vs. successes in the balance, for you, where is it on your personal list?
XY=DP>AG>OS>BW>>>>>>>>>>>SM>JN
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
For me it it is
XY (10/10) > DP (9.9/10) > OS (9.5/10) > AG (9.1/10) > BW (9.09/10) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN (2/10) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SM ( minus infinity / 10)

Anyway, sometimes I feel like the writers for JN are toddlers that randomly pull random words from a box and then the whole words make the episode script
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
For me it it is
XY (10/10) > DP (9.9/10) > OS (9.5/10) > AG (9.1/10) > BW (9.09/10) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN (2/10) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SM ( minus infinity / 10)

Anyway, sometimes I feel like the writers for JN are toddlers that randomly pull random words from a box and then the whole words make the episode script
Can you make for once "hating SM" not the only aspect of your character? Thx
 

TheLink

Sassy healer is best healer.
Can we stop with the whole “XY vs SM” bs? This got old 5+ years ago people give it a rest. Both sagas have their pros and cons but but neither series is perfect. SM Didn’t make all the characters “toddlers” and XY didn’t glorify Ash to some stupid degree despite what members on both sides of the argument feel.

In response to the previous question asked for now I’d say bottom tier personally. The storytelling git worse and the series handling of both protags goals was shoddy at best.
 
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GLTSRY

An adventurer renowned for excavating Megastones
Journeys is a great series if you tune in only for special episodes like returning characters or PWC battles. There isn’t much training going on, so you don’t miss anything anyways.

At the end of the day, all 8 series’ are mostly getting treated like weekly 20-mins-ads by the 4th tier writers for an overwhelming majority of the episodes, so you’re probably wasting more energy on these discussions than the writers did when writing most episodes.

For what it’s worth though, XY automatically gets the top spot for the animation and art work.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Journeys is a great series if you tune in only for special episodes like returning characters or PWC battles. There isn’t much training going on, so you don’t miss anything anyways.

At the end of the day, all 8 series’ are mostly getting treated like weekly 20-mins-ads by the 4th tier writers for an overwhelming majority of the episodes, so you’re probably wasting more energy on these discussions than the writers did when writing most episodes.

For what it’s worth though, XY automatically gets the top spot for the animation and art work.
I don’t think discusding Pokemon is a waste of time since it is a therapy and distraction from problems for some
 

AuraChannelerChris

"The fish..."
There's a lot of people in here that hate on XY on a daily basis so I don't see the problem.
Two words for SM:

Kuku Man
 
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