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Does the world need more Atheist?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by crobatman, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. Loliboose

    Loliboose daniel

    As if Christianity isn't a man-made belief.

    While, there are many preachy-types on both theistic and atheistic sides of the fence, there isn't really anything productive in questioning a group of people, especially generalizing them because of their belief, or lack thereof.

    See this:
     
  2. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Jesus Christ Strawman batman.

    the percentage of Atheists in jail compared to the ones outside of jail is less than a percent.

    you can try to search for any explanation you want; all i'm saying is that religion makes you no better than anybody else in morals.

    Show me where a large amount of atheists would have contributed "chaos". the ones in America seem to disagree with you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  3. Tokin

    Tokin :3

    I believe people have the misconception that atheists are prone to abuse their perceived freedom, I know several atheists, if anything, their lack of belief in anything they cannot see makes them more willing to enjoy themselves in this life, for they don't believe in anything else beyond that, also the "angry" atheist stereotype is generally a myth as well, they've come to terms with their perception of the world, can can be as capable of enjoying a plentiful life as any other person, so they produce chaos? show me an example, show me an instance where their lack of belief can lead or even relate to such a pointless act
     
  4. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    Oh dear... Yes, I am a Christian (Orthodox) and yes, I study the Bible. Anyway, God's stance on atheists and anything else is part of a different thread.

    @GhostAnime and Tokin: I think I stressed it enough that I was speaking theoretically and hypothetically, as hypothetical is a world with more atheists than it has now. No, I can't think of any profound example. Follow my thoghts:

    Let's say I am a religious Christian. Christ's teachings surely aim to a lawful life (provided laws are ideal) and respect to other people, then I have my family, and education that lead to me being a productive and contributing member to society. (Yes, only a handful of christians are 100% this way, but
    all are supposed to).

    Now, let's say I am an atheist. Of course, family and education can lead to me being respectful and loving. But another factor that can contribute to this, which is religion, is missing. In fact, if I jumped from Christianity to atheism, it shows that I do not believe in its teachings, therefore I do not believe in the way of life it supports (which is a life with respect). I do not believe in many principles, too. Does this not mean that I am more prone to crime? That I can contribute to a chaotic society?

    No, I don't believe that all atheists are this way. There is a tendency, one that of course cannot lead to any conclusions about anyone.
     
  5. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    what is it about being atheist means you cant be a kind person?

    when atheists lack belief in christianity, it simply means they lack belief in the GOD. it doesnt mean they lack belief in love, family, etc.

    we arent cold-hearted beings. we go to jail less than you.
     
  6. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    Well, when you completely reject a religion which insists on kindness and warmheartedness, how much does this show your support of these traits? Unless of course for one reason or the other you don't agree with parts of that religion, so you reject it, as it is wrong, but you acknowledge the parts that you find right. For example, there are religions (ie Buddhism I think) that have some similar teachings to Christianity (peace, harmony) in a different way maybe. I, as a Christian, do not follow these religions, but acknowledge how we end up having similar ethical beliefs, thus support them.

    I don't know what you presonally believe, or what your ethics are, but Christian hate, or disrespect towards religious people, looks like an important part of the atheistic belief.

    Well, if you don't believe in God, what motivates you to be kind and warmhearted? It all looks meaningless, and the existence of the different humans looks like a random natural phenomenon.
     
  7. Sapphiredragon929

    Sapphiredragon929 A r t i f i c e.

    Does the world need more Atheist?

    Well, this is the singular connotation, so it couldn't have any signifgant impact.

    Does the world need more Atheists?
    Religion shouldn't impact any type of life. Some Christians are actually decent people....NOES. Some Muslims rock. Jewish people give you money not lend you and you can't pay the intrest. Etc. What the world needs is less nosy people, in all actuality.
     
  8. Tokin

    Tokin :3

    while not being completely an atheist myself, I'll answer your question, atheists tend to disrespect christianity becuase christianity disrespects them, maybe it's an unnecessary measure, to assume you are going to try and convert them, but it's still reasonable, as your your last question, well, some people don't need to believe in an allmighty creator to be happy, atheists believe this is all we have, this life, so they generally tend to live it more throughly, since they don't expect god
     
  9. Pokemonwarrior

    Pokemonwarrior I Am Your Nightmare

    As a complete atheist myself I don't disrespect anyone as long as they don't disrespect me its like in anything else if you want respect you have to give it too. And I don't judge as long as I'm not judged I'm not one of the atheist that hate or judge just to do it. I only do it to defend my thoughts and how I feel. So people shouldn't lump us all into the same group as the bad ones that do things just in hate. It would be like me lumping all good Christians in with the bad ones.

    But as for the topic saying what it does and for people to say we are cold and closed hearted isn't true. We just don't believe and any religious being out there as being all powerful or all knowing or all superior or even being out there since they have no physical form or presents. We still have the ability to love and care and give just not to do it to look good in the eyes of a lord or god. Just in the eyes of other humans which is all that matters. Just because we don't believe in a god doesn't mean we can't do or feel or give the same way as somebody that does believe in a religion. Just those that don't like or understand us don't like to think this way.

    This is my view point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  10. Tim the turtle

    Tim the turtle Happy Mudkip

    This is why I have such a problem with the hardliners in atheism, they give the rest of us a bad name. Nobody should use religious fundamentalists as a measure for all members of a religion, no one assumes all Christians are like Fred Phelps for instance, so why would you assume that all atheists are vitriolic Christian haters just because there are a few of them in a very small minority?

    So what if it does though? Clearly atheists can be and often are nice people, there is nothing to suggest that atheists are any more or any less nice or pleasant than Christians or other religious people, does the reasoning really matter? If atheists are nice, which most of us are, then they are nice and they have their reasons, that should be enough really. I can give you an answer as to why I am nice to people, it's because for me being nice to people makes me feel good about myself and makes others feel good. You could say that's selfish, but then personally I don't for a moment believe altruism exists in any form in this world. Atheists have their reasons for doing good, religious people have their reasons for doing good, both are as selfish and as personal as the others in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  11. Pokemonwarrior

    Pokemonwarrior I Am Your Nightmare

    I agree, say lets put a person that believes in God and a person thats Atheist in the same room. And have a group of people out side looking in and not have the 2 in the room do or say anything or wear any religious symbols. The people out side would not be able to tell what one is or isn't a Christian or Atheist. We are the same in almost every way but religion. Its not like we have anything less or more than the other person other then the beliefs we hold and if they aren't acted or said theres no way to tell the difference in either both are just humans living and loving and doing just like the other.
     
  12. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Again, analyze why Atheists reject your religion. Do they reject it because of what it stands for or what it sets its platform on? Most Atheists will tell you it is because of what you set your platform on: an almighty being.

    We do not reject kindness and family. We never did. The only issue we ever had with any religion at all is simply a belief in God.

    Think of Atheism kindness like Buddhism that's more of a personal choice.

    I'm not sure about hate.. but I guess i can see what you mean about disrespect?

    Personally, I believe religion was only a way to enforce people to act nice. I do not believe every person is nice because of their belief in an almight being. I believe they are nice because that is truly who they are and they would be nice regardless of the religion they fall into.

    This is clearly demonstrated by simply looking at the history of Christianity.
     
  13. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    1st: If you do so, it does not make sense to just discard an entire religion based upon love. So I get that you doubt the whole "God's existence" thing, but support the way of life Jesus proposed? Completely ignoring the divine element in this (or even Jesus's part in this)? Well, if it can be done, the rest is history.

    2nd: That's a fine part, but, in our circles, it is hypocritical to act like you follow God's orders in order to avoid punishment or anything. As hypocritical it is to follow His orders so that you can enjoy merits. No, we don't follow His orders to look good in his eyes.

    3rd: Actually, Christianity is all about respect towards humanity.

    1st: I don't think it's a minority... if not a majority, a large part anyway. Just look at the SPP Atheist Alliance thread.

    2nd: No, it doesn't matter really. It is enough. Your actions are enough. For God's sake, atheists don't go to hell just like that. I just questioned how you can do it.

    3rd: Even if it's not perfect, it is way far from selfish. It's just that showing love for selfish reasons limits how far you are willing to go.

    4th: No, perhaps it will never exist. I'll tell you what we believe here. The only truly altruistic is God. Man cannot be truly altruistic, but he is rewarded on the attempt. All we've got to do is try. Maybe the good feeling you get is the reward for being nice? From wherever you believe it to come (after all, nature and society both want cooperation).
     
  14. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    What about the Allience thread do you see that makes you suspect they're selfish and whatnot?
     
  15. Tim the turtle

    Tim the turtle Happy Mudkip

    Because Pokemon forums speak for the world :p

    I don't really get what's so hard to understand. People can be nice rather easily, it's just what people do. I can't give you any better answer really than shrugging my shoulders and asking "what did you expect?"

    Just to clarify with this, are you talking about atheists, Christians or both with this statement?

    Yes but I wouold argue that the idea of an attempt to be altruistic is a rather self defeating concept, I'd posit that there will be some sort of motive behind the 'altruistic' action, even if it were just subconscious.
     
  16. Pokemonwarrior

    Pokemonwarrior I Am Your Nightmare


    Weird for you to say that since you guys say you have to follow his rules,laws,commandments,and do things that kinda please him so he can judge you when its your time to make sure your fit to go to heaven so yeah you do things to look good enough in "Gods" eyes to get in and be with him. I'm just saying it might not be in your group or whatever but in a lot of Christians eyes that hate or not understand or feels weird about us this is a big point they make. They say if you don't follow his laws and such you'll go to hell and be damned and don't get in to heaven or be with him. So I don't see how you can say what you did in that argument.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  17. Quincy92

    Quincy92 Member

    This is the problem with labeling yourself with ideologies. The guy should have just said "The world needs more rational people," or something vague like that. Religion does indeed cause death and destruction and the world would be a better place if it never existed. But above all, it's any belief system/dogma that's harmful. In Soviet Russia, Communist China, etc, all had belief systems. The world doesn't need more religious people or atheists, it needs more rational/logical people.
     
  18. Which were 100% atheistic, if you didn't know. Religion and the values thereof would have inhibited these country's dictators, like Stalin and Zedong, from commiting all their atrocities.

    What are you reading? It isn't the Bible. And what's more, you would hold it's views in higher esteem if you consider yourself a Christian. I am not accusing you of not being a follower of Christ, but you need to understand that the Bible's views concerning everything are not to be called into question if you are a Christian. You even said that a person who rejects entirely the concept of God and preaches the hate of Christianity (an atheist) could enter the Kingdom of Heaven! There are certainly no less than an hundred instances where the Bible says that that is not so. You need to reconsider your position concerning the Bible's validity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  19. Tokin

    Tokin :3

    atheistic? russia's religion is the orthodox church,which you apprently know nothing about, christianity is NOT the only religion in the world and the US isn't the only religious country, try to get at least some of your facts stragight, you're leaking fallacies all over this topic. Also, need I remind you of the crusades? crimes can be commited by any cause, religious or not
    the bible, the bible, the bible, you claim you uphold truth, and values of understanding, love and tolerance, what have you done so far? nothing, but try to convert others and completely ignore their points of view and of course hide behind the bible, I know good christians, and you are not giving a good example of one, I know atheists don't follow your beliefs, but if someone questions your beliefs you respect them, not chastise them as if you and only you held the truth, and as has been told numerous times in this debate, atheism DOES NOT equal the hate of christianity or any religion, it simply means they are not a part of them, also don't be surprised if you gain insults, because those last words were a way of telling them they are evil and going to hell simply because they don't share your views
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  20. Sapphiredragon929

    Sapphiredragon929 A r t i f i c e.

    I have something in my pocket that can disproove of the Bible's validity, this is called a Fossil
     

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