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Does the world need more Atheist?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by crobatman, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. What is wrong with my pasting those Web sites? It really is a good page. I read the entirety of all of your's and DF's looong message, so the least you could do is take a gander at the page instead of griping about my posting something that is not my own.

    I am tolerant of everyone, thank you. I disagree with them, but that is not the same as intolerance.
    Fine, but know that your god is not the God of the Bible.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  2. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Of course since PokeJustice simply cant answer simple questions, he needs a site that's more biased for religion than himself.

    I just have to ask... how is listening to what your parents tell you critical thinking?

    The process just isn't.. connecting to me right now.
  3. Pokemonwarrior

    Pokemonwarrior I Am Your Nightmare

    How can you say their god isn't the one in the bible becuase even us atheists know that not all bibles are the same for every Christian religion denominations out there. So are you saying your denominations of the same religion is superior to theirs because your in your mind is closer to the real words of your god than theirs?
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  4. poke'master

    poke'master Well-Known Member

    lol what a pointless thread. arguing over stuff nobody can prove is real. sad. it's just an 'is so' 'is not' thread
  5. PartyPokemon

    PartyPokemon L or Kira?

    1. I never said you weren't tolerant. I said you were different. And that was before I checked out the link in your sig. GhostAnime, you should check that link out, too! It's... good stuff!

    2. My God IS the God of the Bible. So capitalize his name, like you should. And even if he wasn't, you should still capitalize it. It's called respect. My God sent down his son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins. My God is merciful, loving, forgiving, and kind. No other God sent down his son (Jesus Christ) to die for our sins. So, our Gods are... the same.
    You are Christian and so am I and so is Dr. Ste. Same God, end of story. We all interpret his words differently, but until he returns that's all we have. A 700 page book.
  6. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    I agree. Confession, and especially repentance are the whole point. Lack of these makes your sins uncorrectable. Atheism is a belief, but keep in mind that being atheistic is merely a state. After all, the decision of people's fates will take place after the Revelation, in which things will bacome a lot more... interesting for both theists and atheists. We expect that there will actually be evidence of God in the eyes of all then (still, many won't believe). It will be a matter of whose side are you with. Time always changed people's beliefs anyway.

    But what I said about the Bible not being literal, it applies tenfold to the Book of Revelations.

    I highly disagree with the "become a christian, or die in Hell" tactic. It shows that the christian has little understanding of their religion, and little interest in explaining it. It's not the christian way, and it is not God's way to scare us into believing in him. I think this has aided in the rise of atheism, scaring people for something they simply don't see and dogmatically accept doesn't draw much sympathy.

    It's not even real. I mean, even if we agree that atheism alone is a sin that can send you to Hell, what differentiates it of all the other sins? Blatant sinners at the time of Jesus were saved and supported by Him, why is atheism so bad it is not forgiven?

    @Dragonfree: Whoa, long post, you shared your views about theism and atheism, good. For my comments, I comment from the christian side, while you address religion in general (just in case of "this doesn't apply in all religions")

    We are too, scientific interest is not a speciality of atheists. And, uh, I never really thought there was an issue of "inspiration" here. I agree anyway that everyone's inspiration is a personal matter. Similar applies to the "comfort" issue later on.

    Of course, in order to "do" good for the world, you need action, beliefs are of little importance. When studying science, you must steer clear of any presumptions that can be debatable. When acting for the common good, the action itself must be the motive, for anything else sets limits to how far you can go.

    And, as I said in the previous page, don't take the honesty of such actions for granted.

    Well, I don't think the word "atheistic" fits enough for all those things you mention afterwards. Atheism is a lack of faith in something, thus a rejection of it. Science, charities etc are simply not related to religion (call them neutral, scientific, objective etc...) (continued, freaking server errors...)
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  7. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    (continue; sorry, I had to split due to server errors)

    -Ignorance. No, the ideas Jesus showed were extremely revolutionary for the time (one of the things that got Him killed). Which science theory does Christianity contradict? Which ideas are outdated? Love? Human respect? Forgiveness? Equality?

    -Critical thinking. The way one judges what he is being taught is a personal matter. I don't see how dogmatically accepting that there is God makes you different from dogmatically rejecting the existence. Similarly, critical thinking can apply to both religion and atheism. Again, let me mention that the Bible is not literal. Jesus was not talking about real trees...

    -Intolerance. Blatant mistake. Read Matthew, chapter ιθ' (or XVIII, or 18, I don't know how your version is numbered), paragraphs 21-22. And we denounce the "scare tactic".

    I disagree. For these things, family principles and education are great factors. In my opinion, two random people, one atheist and the other religious, with similar education and family principles, will end up being similar in this aspect.

    For the specific part, I'm not American and I don't know all these details of you history so that I can express an opinion (but this part was obviously not directed to me then :Ρ). I have expressed my opinion on the OP on the previous page.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  8. Tokin

    Tokin :3

    As for more recent posts: Partypokemon, I fully agree, we all interpret different things differently and we need to listen and form our on opinions rather than having someone drill them into our skulls.

    Dr.Ste: While I almost fully agree with your posts, I'll make a comment: I don't know if it was your intention to refer to atheism as a sin, small one even, it is a different set of (or lack thereof) beliefs, if there are such things as sins, I believe they are reserved to other actions, such as cruelty, not small actions, or different actions, as for confession, I believe if you regret your actions, then you do not need a middle man to "formally do so", my opinion
  9. So I can't use links? Talk about a double standard.

    My parent's never were religious. They weren't atheistic, but they never attended Church. What did your parents teach you?
    You claim to be a Christian, but have a cut-and-paste approach to the Bible? That doesn't compute.
    Once again, you succeed in showing your own ignorance: calling someone wrong is not intolerance, it is disagreement, which I acknowledged in my post. I am respectful, but that doesn't mean I should just lay down and take insults to me personally and to my faith.

    Sins can only be forgiven by Christ through acceptance of Him. Atheist's don't. Because they deny Christ, no sin can be forgiven. They therefore die in their sin, which damns someone to Hell for eternity.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  10. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    Um, switch "religion" and "atheism" around. Atheism was established upon the fact that there was no proven, scientific evidence of a God, or at least that is what it is established upon today (back in the 16th century when the term was first used it described disagreement from a specific religion.) Atheism is a completely rational, and completely logical belief since many scientific breakthroughs have begun to show that there isn't a God. Religion is based on a book written by man who-knows0how-long ago in a completely different language that was translated when people could barely speak English.

    You didn't jsut say that. By saying that (to a fellow Christain no less) shows your inability to accept any other God than the one you see, because you think that the God you see is the right God which is the same as saying that God represented in other religions isn't ther ight God and that those religions aren't as good as yours which shows Pride, the deadliest of the Seven Deadly Sins.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  11. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    There's the Revelation, the Judgement takes part after its completion. So the atheists that are convicted are the ones who don't believe in God even after He reveals Himself (so there is evidence of Him). Atheists refuse to accept God right now, due to lack of evidence. When the time arrives, it will be a matter of who you follow. I don't think God would let people fall into sin out of their ignorance (as lack of knowledge), but out of their will.

    Read Revelation, chapter ιστ (16), paragraph 9, especially the last sentence. The true sinners are the ones who sin, stay on their sin and support it to be right, denying and blaspheming the revealed God.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  12. Remember the story of "Doubting Thomas?" Christ said, "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet still believe." We are to believe despite God not currently being visible to us.
  13. Dr. Ste

    Dr. Ste Pokemon Breeder

    Does this mean that if you do not fulfil the requirements of this blessing, you are cursed and convicted?

    Read Matthew, 5:3-12. There are "alternatives" to be blessed. Ideally, you need to fulfil all, but don't tell me there is one ideal christian right now.
  14. Tyrant Tar

    Tyrant Tar Well-Known Member

    Remember the story of the lost sheep? The shepherd went through hell and high waters to find the one lost sheep, not content with just having the 99 good little sheep.

    If the shepherd is Jesus/God, the 99 sheep are His followers, then the lost sheep is...
  15. Well, I found this. It pretty much hits the nail on the head, and provides relevant verses:

    The Bible says there is only one way to Heaven:

    Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6) (This completely throws atheism out of the window when speaking of Salvation!)

    Good works cannot save you.

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    You have to trust Jesus Christ. Here's what you must do:

    Admit you are a sinner:

    "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23)

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12)

    "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:10)

    Be willing to turn from your sin (repent):

    Jesus said: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:5)

    "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:30)

    Believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

    "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners. Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

    "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)

    Through prayer, invite Jesus into your life to become your personal Saviour.

    "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:10)

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)

    You must pray something along the lines of:

    Dear God, I am a sinner and I therefore need forgiveness. I believe that Jesus Christ shed His precious blood and died for my sin. I am willing to turn from sin. I now invite Christ to come into my heart and life as my personal Saviour.

    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)

    "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

    If you have received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, as a Christian, the Bible says you should:

    Read your Bible every day to get to know Christ better:

    "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

    "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Psalms 119:105)

    Do your best to talk to God in prayer every day:

    "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

    "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God." (Philippians 4:6)

    You should be baptized, worship, fellowship, and serve with other Christians in a church where Christ is preached and the Bible is the final authority:

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (Matthew 28:19)

    "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." (Hebrews 10:25)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16)

    Tell others about Christ:

    "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

    "For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!" (1 Corinthians 9:16)

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)

    Belief is the only way to be saved from Hell fire, if the Bible is to be believed (and if you are a Christian, friend, then it certainly is! [Psalms 119:105]).

    Do you understand what I am saying, PartyPokemon? I was wrong to say that your God was not the God of Abraham, but you should trust the Bible more and let it be the ultimate authority in your life. And you should certainly better understand who goes to Heaven and who doesn't.

    This message is not for atheists. Please do not reply to it if you do not believe in God. This is just to people who should be Christians but disagree with the Bible.
  16. Tokin

    Tokin :3

    I believe in something other than we see here, there is of course more to life than just life, as for the rest of your post, well, it's the same things you've been telling us for a while now, but now it's getting on the verge of insult, not only for atheists but for many other religions, mind you there are a lot more than your perspective seems to tell you, but I've made my points on that and everything else clear and pointing out everything that I wish to again would be ultimately useless, I disagree with the bible because it was written by men who could have been as erroneous or even more than the average commoner today in their interpretations.
  17. PartyPokemon

    PartyPokemon L or Kira?

    You're quite the narrow-minded guy aren't you? Me? CLAIMING to be Christian? Boy, I worship Jesus like there's no tomorrow! I'm both Catholic AND Orthodox! Tell me that's not Christian! Dude. Look. Just because someone doesn't share your EXACT ideas it does not mean that they can't be Christian.

    And another thing. I see that you don't like insults to your faith. You don't seem to enjoy it when people insult what you believe. Well, then... don't insult what other people (including me) believe! I believe something else and you say I'm not a Christian! Well then, smart one, what am I?

    Yeah, but it also throws everyone else out. Does this mean that Ghandi's in Hell now?

    Fucking PEACE!
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  18. Not everyone, just everyone who is not a Christian. Yes, although I cannot say what happened in the last few moments of his life (he might have converted, who's to say?), M.K. Gandhi most likely is in Hell. You believe in Salvation based on good works. This is not Biblical.

    You should better accept the Bible's contents if you are a Christian. If you do not like what you read in it, then you should find some other faith.
  19. .TraX.

    .TraX. Bad and Nationwide

    Believe in me or die* thank you for giving lord, for all those options!

    *I may or may not exist.
  20. Pokemonwarrior

    Pokemonwarrior I Am Your Nightmare

    And people wonder why we atheist don't believe in a god Id much rather go to hell then be as hard headed and closed minded to others and so involved into something that I'm not willing to listen to or respect others thoughts as you are. The way you show your god is that either do as I say or go to hell and it seems he forgives nothing. I highly doubt you do every thing he says to do other wise you wouldn't be a human nor normal so stop preaching and listen. And as I said not all denominations of Christianity are the same but you still believe in the same type of god and both think you should respect others and be kind to other people which it seems you do not do by disrespecting others way of thinking just because it isn't the same as yours.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009

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