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Don't Cry-de, Mareanie! (1001)

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
What I'm basically saying is it doesn't matter if it's forced. They're main characters, and deserve their appearance, even if it is only a token appearance.

Characters don't 'deserve' anything. They're fictional, and as such have no actual rights. If a character's inclusion in an episode does not add anything to that episode's plot but instead only wastes time that could be used better, or worse, actually derails and hurts the plot, then it's better that said character not appear. Mallow's episodes often suffer precisely because the writers choose to force Team Rocket in there.

I believe that forcing such a rule constrains the writing potential and plot too much for the sake of... I'm honestly not sure.
 
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Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Characters don't 'deserve' anything. They're fictional, and as such have no actual rights. If a character's inclusion in an episode does not add anything to that episode's plot but instead only wastes time that could be used better, or worse, actually derails and hurts the plot, then it's better that said character not appear. Mallow's episodes often suffer precisely because the writers choose to force Team Rocket in there.

I believe that forcing such a rule constrains the writing potential and plot too much for the sake of... I'm honestly not sure.

You don't just ignore your main characters. Even if you don't want to say the characters themselves "deserve" to appear, then how about fans of those characters? Those Mallow episodes you say suffer because of Team Rocket, I say are only decent because of Team Rocket. They "deserve" it in the sense that if fans of the other main characters get to see their favorite every episode, then so too should fans of Team Rocket.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Alola is the first region to ever have one of Ash's friend not appear in a given episode after their introduction.
Of course it is. Because Alola is the first region where Satoshi doesn't actively travel around. There are plenty of episodes set outside of school. You don't have to have the entire rest of the class hanging out with each other and having them all join up to tackle the plot of the day every single time. If anything I think there should be more episodes where they leave out certain characters, so that the characters that are there can get more focus and development rather than them needing to take time out of the episode to give people who don't matter right now a token appearance.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord

So, given this history, it is extremely unusual to have a main character not appear.

They don't.

99% of the time, they have though. Even looking at only Sun and Moon, any given character doesn't disappear for more than an episode at a time, and it's overall fairly rare. If Team Rocket only disappeared once every ten episodes or so, I wouldn't make nearly as big of a deal as I am.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
So, given this history, it is extremely unusual to have a main character not appear.



99% of the time, they have though. Even looking at only Sun and Moon, any given character doesn't disappear for more than an episode at a time, and it's overall fairly rare. If Team Rocket only disappeared once every ten episodes or so, I wouldn't make nearly as big of a deal as I am.
Has it only pissed you off in SM, or did it piss you off starting from their very first non-appearance in BW16?
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Has it only pissed you off in SM, or did it piss you off starting from their very first non-appearance in BW16?

Yes, it did. Very much so. I have a lot of complaints about Unova, but that, combined with their jarring personality change, was my biggest issue. The only thing I like about Alola better than Unova was that at least Alola isn't completely ruining Team Rocket like Unova did. They may not appear as much as they normally do, but at least they appear more than they did in Unova, and at least they are actually their selves.

Also, to be fair, I never said my feelings are so strong that I'm pissed off. It's just an annoyance.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Yes, it did. Very much so. I have a lot of complaints about Unova, but that, combined with their jarring personality change, was my biggest issue. The only thing I like about Alola better than Unova was that at least Alola isn't completely ruining Team Rocket like Unova did. They may not appear as much as they normally do, but at least they appear more than they did in Unova, and at least they are actually their selves.

Also, to be fair, I never said my feelings are so strong that I'm pissed off. It's just an annoyance.
Hm, that makes me sad to hear since I liked their Unova version the best.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Hm, that makes me sad to hear since I liked their Unova version the best.

I'm sure a lot of people would agree with you, given how much people express annoyance with them. For me, Team Rocket has always been my favorite characters, ever since the beginning. Unova went and turned them into completely different character, removing practically everything I enjoyed about them in the process.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
I'm sure a lot of people would agree with you, given how much people express annoyance with them. For me, Team Rocket has always been my favorite characters, ever since the beginning. Unova went and turned them into completely different character, removing practically everything I enjoyed about them in the process.
I can accept that you like them, and I'm happy for you that XY brought back who they used to be.. at the same time, why does it mean they have to be shoehorned into every episode, even ones where they wouldn't fit into the plot? That's the part that I don't understand about what you're saying you're wanting.

For example, and you may not have heard of this show and that's fine, but there's a show based on Archie Comics that debuted last year on The CW called Riverdale and it's had two seasons. My favorite character is Cheryl Blossom. I like many things about her including how she looks, her behavior and attitude, the storylines the writers give her, etc. At the same time, there's so much going on in the show that I accept that she can't appear in every episode, and I'm totally ok with it. I appreciate that they don't try to shoehorn her into episodes where the plot would make no sense to shove her in. So I guess coming back to what you're saying, it confuses me that just because you like them, you think they should be shoehorned into episodes where they contribute little to nothing.

A good example is Korrina's gym battle. You like Team Rocket's bumbling personalities on a weekly basis. That much is clear about "my favorite characters since the beginning." Do you feel their 2-min appearance, with Serena and Clemont quickly dispatching them, did anything to entertain you or display their character traits that make them your favorite characters?
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I can accept that you like them, and I'm happy for you that XY brought back who they used to be.. at the same time, why does it mean they have to be shoehorned into every episode, even ones where they wouldn't fit into the plot? That's the part that I don't understand about what you're saying you're wanting.

I can't really say it any other way then I already have. I just simply believe that the main characters deserve their appearances, and it's taking the lazy way out for them to just not appear.

For example, and you may not have heard of this show and that's fine, but there's a show based on Archie Comics that debuted last year on The CW called Riverdale and it's had two seasons. My favorite character is Cheryl Blossom. I like many things about her including how she looks, her behavior and attitude, the storylines the writers give her, etc. At the same time, there's so much going on in the show that I accept that she can't appear in every episode, and I'm totally ok with it. I appreciate that they don't try to shoehorn her into episodes where the plot would make no sense to shove her in. So I guess coming back to what you're saying, it confuses me that just because you like them, you think they should be shoehorned into episodes where they contribute little to nothing.

I don't know much about that show at all, but from what I know, that's really comparing apples and oranges.

If it helps you understand my point of view, I wouldn't typically call Team Rocket's appearances shoehorned. Typically Team Rocket does one of three things for an episode. If their not the main characters of the episode, then they either add a B plot to the episode or a climax. The B plot is the secondary plot of an episode, so that we have more going on then just Ash's story. As for the climax, they give us that bit of action that is often lacking otherwise in the episode. One of my bigger issues with Alola episodes is that they often have no climax, which just kind of makes the episodes fall flat. Team Rocket is a plot device that ensures you always can have a climax, and I say that Alola is under-using that resource.

A good example is Korrina's gym battle. You like Team Rocket's bumbling personalities on a weekly basis. That much is clear about "my favorite characters since the beginning." Do you feel their 2-min appearance, with Serena and Clemont quickly dispatching them, did anything to entertain you or display their character traits that make them your favorite characters?

I will admit that there is the occasional time where they truly are shoehorned in, and that would be one of the times. But times like this are relatively rare, especially pre-Unova. Still, when I see that scene, rather then thinking "I wish they just weren't here at all," I think, "I wish they handled Team Rocket just a little better in this episode."
 
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