Dont Suggest Hyper Beam, Elemental Beams, Thunder Dancing

[snorlax]

Tazzler ftw...

 

[Tazzler]

Also, you don't have to get into numbers, averages, and percents per turns which make it confusing. You can prove it like I did.

Also, More is More whether by 1, 100, or 2939494949484. If it does more, why should you do less?

 

[Zora]

Alternate Rating System of Attacks (Excluding Weather)

Also, here is an alternate ranking system. THIS IS NOT POWER.
Name (STAB/Turns)Accuracy(Power)(PP)
I use this to determaine all around effectiviness of a move
Grass
Frenzy Plant (1.5/2)0.95(150)(5)=534.375

SolarBeam (1.5/2)0.99(120)(10)=811

Giga Drain (1.5)0.99(60)(5)=445.5 (HP Absorb, 1/2)

HP Grass (1.5)0.99(70)(15)=1559.25

Water
Hydro Cannon (1.5/2)0.95(150)(5)=534.375

Hydro Pump (1.5)0.8(120)(5)=720

Surf (1.5)0.99(95)(15)-2116.125

Fire
Blast Burn (1.5/2)0.95(150)(5)=534.375

Fire Blast=(1.5)0.85(120)(5)=765+Burn

Flamethrower=(1.5)0.99(95)(15)-2116.125+Burn

Normal
Hyper Beam (1.5/2)0.95(150)(5)=534.375

Double-Edge (1.5)0.99(120)(15)=2673+Rocoil Damage

Return (1.5)0.99(102)(20)=3,029.4 (With Frienship)

Body Slam (1.5)0.99(85)(15)=1,893.375

Electric
Thunder (1.5)0.75(120)(10)=675

Thunderbolt (1.5)0.99(95)(15)=2116.125+Paralysis

Weather
First turns:
Solarbeam Same as above, but but -moveslot (for Sunny Day) next to it

Thunder: (1.5/2)0.99(120)(10)=811+Paralysis

Later turns-through weather stopping
Solarbeam (1.5)0.99(120)(10)=1782-moveslot (for sunnyday)

Thunder (1.5)0.99(120)(10)=1782+Paralysis

 

[Tazzler]

Numbers, numbers, numbers!

 

[MetalMario]

On the first post, Grass section, why are all the non-FP moves being multiplied by 2, yet FP is being divided by 2? It should be one or the other, not both.

I'd consider FP on Venusaur to be comparable to Hyper Beam on Slaking. Just as a Hyper Beam+Recharge on Slaking does more than a Return+Loaf, Frenzy Plant+Recharge on a Venusaur does more than Giga Drain+Giga Drain. They're still pretty awkward moves, but they aren't universally inferior to other things in these cases.

 

[Zora]

If you look at my ranking system, they are weakest moves. Plus PP and accuracy is also an issue, FP is okay because grass were not born with PP.

112.5=/=120
FP=/=GD

Giga Drain is still better, since you will do a bit more damage after words, and also the fact that you can get a turn to to other things (switch Pokemon IE) with GD makes it even better.

BTW, on my ranking system, FT, Surf, T-Bolt, Return, and HP Grass are the strongest on each group.

Weather, hard to say, decent grass attacks are rare, though thunder has more disadvantages.

 

[Souless_Heat]

Frenzy Plant is the only one of the Elemental Beams to consider, that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[Zora]

Frenzy Plant is the only one of the Elemental Beams to consider, that's pretty much all there is to it.

Agreed. I hope that a "Leaf Blade" like move will be avaliable in DP.

 

[SneazzL.com]

Wtf stop this stupid tread lol you now for yourself whats good and not

 

[magnemiteZ]

okokokokokokok

you and F_M need to lose the colors

jesus christ make it pail blue or some ****

that kills my eyes

and looks extra gay

****ing ignore me then.

And red has gone - It was starting to piss me off.

 

[snorlax]

good

red isnt cool

 

[Tazzler]

Frenzy Plant is the only one of the Elemental Beams to consider, that's pretty much all there is to it.

Uh, no.

Meganium and Venusaur are the only ones who learn it and they get better grass moves ie magical and razor leaf. They are defensive and don't need the
"powerful" move, which it really isn't. Plus, in real battles, you are just asking for something to set up while you can't do anything about it. let your meganium frenzy plant the heracross switch in, then die to megahorn while you can't switch to weezing, gyarados, or skamrory. Or even worse, what if salamence switches in and gets a free dragon dance or continue the situation like what happens with heracross where you can't switch out and you die to a Cb Hidden Power [Flying].

 

[snorlax]

Pokemon used Substitute

Meganium used Freny Plant

Pokemon used Swords Dance

Pokemon Needs To Recharge

Pokemon Used Substitute




get it?

one of the most basic reasons why Hyper Beam/Elemental Hyper Beam is LOLx169599997900978970076976849222784447848484845684844

 

[Freakshow]

Pokemon used Substitute

Meganium used Freny Plant

Pokemon used Swords Dance

Pokemon Needs To Recharge

Pokemon Used Substitute




get it?

one of the most basic reasons why Hyper Beam/Elemental Hyper Beam is LOLx169599997900978970076976849222784447848484845684844

My favorite way of saying Hyper Beam sucks, lol.

 

[ArrEmmDee]

Why are you dividing the elemental hyper beams by two if you assume two turns, and multiplying the other things by two?

Either way, they're more novelty and people who recommend or ask for them realize it quite fine.

Anyway something's certainly flawed, and I don't see why you're so opposed to Thunderdancing.

 

[snorlax]

ok one last time

over a period of 2 turns meaning the attack then recharge for Hyper/Elemental Beams

does Half of its Damage each turn DIVIDING the attack by two

BUT

over a period of 2 turns

Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Surf/Ice Beam

over those same two turns

those attack sdo two times the damage as the would do becuase

ITS BEEN TWO TURNS

 

[Tazzler]

You are never going to stay in for for five turns, you will be forced to switch out sooner or later by a pokemon that threatens you (aerodactyl maybe) or a special sponge (blissey). Having to set up to do damage you could have done straight up is also another reason why it is bad.

A zapdos at low hp vs metagross at ~50% health. Both are the last pokemon. If zapdos uses rain dance, it will die to a Cbrockslide (assuming it is Cbgross with that move, it could be anything). If it uses thunder, it will ko but it has a good chance of missing. Thunderbolt, rain or shine, will do consistent damage witha 100% chance of hitting bar lax incense, double team, etc and can kill the metagross without fear. You also can't hit on switches.

 

[ArrEmmDee]

ok one last time

over a period of 2 turns meaning the attack then recharge for Hyper/Elemental Beams

does Half of its Damage each turn DIVIDING the attack by two

BUT

over a period of 2 turns

Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Surf/Ice Beam

over those same two turns

those attack sdo two times the damage as the would do becuase

ITS BEEN TWO TURNS

You make no sense.
To get really simple.


Let's say a Hyper Beam does 200 damage.
And let's say a one-turn attack does 100 damage.



HYPER BEAM:
Turn 1: 200 damage
Turn 2: 0 damage

200+0/2= 100

ATTACK:
Turn 1: 100 damage
Turn 2: 100 damage

100+100/2= 100


What you've been doing:

Hyper Beam:
Turn 1: 200 damage
Turn 2: 0 damage

200/2= 100 (100 damage each turn)

Attack:
Turn 1: 100 damage
Turn 2: 100 damage

200 damage and you forget to divide by two so it'd also make up 100 damage.



To complexify it you'd probably have to replace 200 with 300 and 100 with 180 or something as a loose example, but you're not thinking your calculations fully. You figure out how much the beams do in one turn and (incorrectly) say that's how much it does in two turns, and then take the other attack and multiply it by two to (correctly) get how much is done in two turns.

Quick correction using fire attacks.


FIRE (assuming Cyndaquil line or Charmander/Charmeleon to make it even easier)
Calculation = Base x Stab x Amount of Attacks in Two Turns (1 for Blast Burn, 2 for all non-recharges)

(Blast Burn)150*2*1= 300

(Fire Blast)120*2*2=480

(Flamethrower)95*2*2=380

 

[snorlax]

thats how much it does in one turn

over two truns it does the complete amount

i was just showing in comparison to the lower more efective attacks

 

[ArrEmmDee]

thats how much it does in one turn

over two truns it does the complete amount

i was just showing in comparison to the lower more efective attacks

So in one turn;


FIRE (assuming Cyndaquil line or Charmander/Charmeleon to make it even easier)
Calculation = Base x Stab x Amount of Attacks in Two Turns (1 for Blast Burn, 2 for all non-recharges) / 2 to calculate average damage

(Blast Burn)150*2*1/2= 150

(Fire Blast)120*2*2/2= 240

(Flamethrower)95*2*2/2= 190

Your point still stands, I was just saying the math had me puzzled.