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Doubles|Rotation Team fretting

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Skyknight

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(Note: Natures, items, and EV formations aren't fully decided yet. I'll leave that for later. Also, this isn't so much meant for both Doubles and Rotation as I haven't decided which one I want to specialize in yet.)

I thought I had a good prototype according to the Team Magma team builder, as it recognized type resistance/weaknesses as balanced. At least, until I noticed one glaring omission in the setup...

This is for in-game, by the way, not Showdown. The theme I was trying for was debilitation, but I don't think I ended up including THAT much of it. Seems I don't have the internal patience needed for Venom Drench (Tentacruel with Toxic Spikes used to be part of the chart, with Trevenant carrying Venom Drench instead of Leech Seed)...

GALVANTULA (Compound Eyes)
--Bug Buzz
--Sticky Web (this is working with a 6v6 mentality, meaning at least three victims; even if I get stuck with 4v4, there's the Roar I installed on Heatran...)
--Thunder
--Energy Ball

TREVENANT (Harvest)
--Leech Seed
--Will-o-Wisp
--Shadow Claw
--Horn Leech

HEATRAN (Flash Fire)
--Earth Power
--Magma Storm (I can rarely resist installing a signature move)
--Roar (mostly for the sake of getting mileage out of Sticky Web)
--Flash Cannon

HONCHKROW (Moxie...probably)
--Sucker Punch (Night Slash if I choose Super Luck instead)
--Brave Bird
--Roost
--Steel Wing (anti-Ice/Rock failsafe)

GASTRODON (Storm Drain)
--Clear Smog
--Recover
--Muddy Water (Scald doesn't do much against special attack, so I'm eyeing this, even if the long-term power of 76.5 is lower than Scald's)
--Earth Power

TERRAKION (Justified)
--Taunt
--Stone Edge
--Sacred Sword/Close Combat (leaning towards the former; I'm just a touch concerned about Close Combat's stat diminution)
--Zen Headbutt/Poison Jab (the former as anti-Fighting, the latter as anti-Fairy)

The glaring problem I spoke of? Dealing with dragons--no ice, fairy, or dragon attacks in the chart. Unless there's a way to get a fairy attack in here, the main suspect is Ice Beam on Gastrodon, in which case I'd replace Honchkrow's Roost with Haze. I just worry about how much better Clear Smog might be than Haze, despite it having no effect on Steels.

I suppose another big question is whether Confuse Ray is justified on Trevenant over Will-o-Wisp. If so, I can probably consider Scald over Muddy Water on Gastrodon.
 
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SATB

Active Member
This team doesn't look geared to doubles yet. Taking the defensive route is already risky in a world where your pokemon could take 2 blows from 2 different pokemon. I would run protect over roar on heatran just because lots of trainers hate heatran and will have a move just to dispose it. Protect will save heatran's life, and allow you to act accordingly whether it be switch it out, or take out the attacker with your partner. Consider replacing Honchkrow's roost for another attack such as night slash or superpower(Which can be your anti-ice/rock/steel/dark/normal failsafe). Honchkrow is too frail to be using it. Roost could be used in rotation, but that will require heavy prediction. Finally consider replacing trevenant since defensive is risky. You could replace it with Mega Venasaur if you still want to go defensive, or Mega Sceptile or Whimsicott. Those 2 are fast and have a super effective STAB on dragons. All 3 are relatively easy to breed.
 
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Skyknight

Active Member
So...replace Honchkrow with Mandibuzz? I'll consider on it, should I be able to come up with a Mandibuzz moveset I'm comfortable with.

I can't bring myself to trust Protect and Detect, though. They'll know I know what they're planning, so won't they just switch right to a Plan B or Plan C? I'll admit the only reason I'm considering Doubles is the problem I heard about a Protect/Detect abuse spate in Rotation. (Although I can't help but wonder if that's simulator-only...GF, at least in G5, managed to interdict just such abuse.)

EDIT: Well, I managed to find three moveslots for Mandibuzz that I can work with--Brave Bird, Foul Play/Knock Off, Bone Rush/Steel Wing. Now to figure out slot four...

EDIT THE SECOND: To give you some idea of what's going on, this is the team I originally had charted (the builder unfortunately doesn't seem to remember moves or abilities). The important part is that I actually WAS holding imbalanced vulnerabilities: http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?596|709|485|73|685|553
 
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SATB

Active Member
Skyknight said:
So...replace Honchkrow with Mandibuzz? I'll consider on it, should I be able to come up with a Mandibuzz moveset I'm comfortable with.

I can't bring myself to trust Protect and Detect, though. They'll know I know what they're planning, so won't they just switch right to a Plan B or Plan C? I'll admit the only reason I'm considering Doubles is the problem I heard about a Protect/Detect abuse spate in Rotation. (Although I can't help but wonder if that's simulator-only...GF, at least in G5, managed to interdict just such abuse.)

EDIT: Well, I managed to find three moveslots for Mandibuzz that I can work with--Brave Bird, Foul Play/Knock Off, Bone Rush/Steel Wing. Now to figure out slot four...

EDIT THE SECOND: To give you some idea of what's going on, this is the team I originally had charted (the builder unfortunately doesn't seem to remember moves or abilities). The important part is that I actually WAS holding imbalanced vulnerabilities: http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?596|709|485|73|685|553
Click to expand...

...uh I didn't say anything about switching to mandibuzz. You should keep honchkrow and maybe try a Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, Night Slash/Haze, and Superpower/Heat Wave set. Mandibuzz won't be giving you the meaty damage Honchkrow can.

As for the protect/detect abuse: You got it slightly twisted. These moves are almost everywhere in a DOUBLE or TRIPLE battle setting. I'm not sure if it is abused in Rotation, but you may be right.

Thanks for showing me that chart. Sorry if I'm being noobish but the balanced/unbalanced part was hard for me to understand. Is the green supposed to outnumber/equal the red?

Finally another fun idea is to try Electroweb over sticky web on Galvantula (only if DOUBLES). This will provide you instant speed control that even catches levitators and flying types, which are abundant. The only significant flaw would be that it doesn't get ground types. If you noticed I'm only giving ideas for double battle settings. That's because I have slightly more experience in it than rotation.
 
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Skyknight

Active Member
Ha, I misread your post as saying that Honchkrow was too frail for "it", assuming "it" meant the Doubles format. Right, back to Honchkrow for the B plan.

The theory behind the builder is that you don't want dark red in there; it means you've got more weakness than resistance, so on average ground is doing more than average damage to the A plan team. Only later did I realize I can cheat around it by giving either Heatran or Tentacruel an Air Balloon. Which, admittedly, isn't a permanent solution. Then again, Tentacruel's Water STAB is something Ground critters don't really want to face, especially not with Tentacruel's speed. (Although, a base special attack of 80 isn't overwhelming.)

In the meantime, I might as well show off what I was up to with the A plan. Determined to be unorthodox, I decided to try making something for Rotation that DID take advantage of entry hazards, using Dragon Tail to force the switch.

GALVANTULA @ Focus Sash (I hope I've got the right Focus item there...)
Timid, Compound Eyes
--Bug Buzz
--Sticky Web
--Thunder
--Energy Ball

TREVENANT @ Sitrus Berry
Careful, Harvest
--Venom Drench (I think I also wanted to try to get use out of this)
--Confuse Ray
--Shadow Claw
--Horn Leech

TENTACRUEL @ Air Balloon/Black Sludge
?, Clear Body/Liquid Ooze
--Muddy Water (same reasoning as with Gastrodon)
--Toxic Spikes (how Venom Drench is going to get use)
--Sludge Wave
--Ice Beam

HEATRAN @ Expert Belt/Life Orb/Air Balloon
Modest, Flash Fire
--Earth Power
--Magma Storm
--Taunt
--Flash Cannon

KROOKODILE @ Assault Vest
Adamant, Moxie
--Fire Fang
--Earthquake
--Dragon Tail (how the switches are getting forced. Of course, this runs into difficulty if there's a Fairy on the other side...)
--Knock Off

SLURPUFF @ Red Card
?, Unburden
--Aromatherapy
--Play Rough
--Wish
--Thief

Admittedly one of my more complicated ideas--Start with Galvantula, Krookodile, and Tentacruel. Set up Sticky Web and at least one layer of Toxic Spikes, then Dragon Tail as needed. Later on, when Trevenant comes in, it can use Venom Drench on the hopefully nicely poisoned (and slowed) enemy team.

(I can hear the laughter from here, thank you.)
 
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