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Down to the Fiery Finish (934)

Just want to give my thoughts here. I didn't watch the episode, and won't either now that I know Ash lost. For me I spent the last 2-3 weeks catching up on about 70 or so episodes once I saw the translated title, thinking Ash might actually win. For me, I'm pretty devastated. This is my first post on the forum but I had played the games when they first came out in the US and when I first got into the anime a few years back, I caught up to anime and had been somewhat following the anime ever since. To me, this loss really hurts and makes me honestly question why I even bother watching. What's the point if Ash will never win? How is there any joy in that? Sure, there's the Orange League that he won and he "won" the Battle Frontier if you can say that, but every other time he's lost, and it's frustrating each time. But what made this so frustrating is it legitimately felt like Ash would win. He had an amazing team this time around and he had the whole Ash-Greninja thing which is legitimately very powerful, and the type advantage against Charizard. And then the episode title really got me hyped. But then this happens.

I'm extremely disappointed and I am in the camp now that Ash will never ever win a league. But if Ash can't win a league, how can he ever become a Pokemon master? And if he can't become a Pokemon master, what's the freaking point? The series has been going on for almost 20 years now, is Ash going to be a loser forever? His Pikachu should be an insanely high level at the very least. I get this series exists juat to sell the games and other merchandise, but what happened here really pushes me away. And you know Ash is good enough to win. I was hoping he'd win here and the series would turn over a new leaf, but I guess that isn't happening. Maybe enough complaining and slacktivism (NOT harrassment) may get the writers of future seasons to change their minds, but it feels like they're purposely making Ash a loser of a character which really makes me question why I bother watching.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 

dp045

Well-Known Member
Do you think this adversely affects the rest of the season in terms of reception, audience and critical? because realemtne I wonder if there will be people wanting to see the next episodes.
 

Mew2

Team Rocket's Enemy
wow I really thought Ash was gonna win the league this time. This was his finest hour, I don't think he'll ever win a league now.

I wouldn't say that. He's won the Orange League (unofficial I know, but still...) and the Battle Frontier, and there's still Sun/Moon and whatever comes after. In addition, he reached the finals, something that's never happened before, and only used his Kalos team in the process. I'm convinced that if he had brought in his reserves, like Charizard, Sceptile, Snorlax, or Infernape, that he likely would have won.
 

magicfoogieA

Active Member
Heard the news and rushed over here as quickly as I could to see the devastation here.

I'm a little disappointed but not really. If Ash did win, they would've had to shoehorn in a last minute champion's league arc and frankly I don't think they have the time or schedule for that. If Ash is going to win, I want to be long, arduous, and very fleshed out. Preferably, I would also want it to be where his roots were in Kanto. But I can be happy that this is the farthest he's ever gone. He got to the finals, put all his chips on the table, and lost a close fight with a very tough rival who once defeated an Elite Four member while Ash himself went up against the champion and didn't get demolished like in other seasons. Heck, in the only time he made it to the semifinals, he was swept clean.

Though I have to say, this fight was still amazing to watch. It's definitely one that was on par with Paul's fight for me. Not in terms of character but in terms of pure action and intensity. It's clear though that the writers want Alain to be the poster child to Kalos. I mean....that should've been clear from the fact that Mega Charizard X is the poster child for all things mega evolution.
 

Cevil

Well-Known Member
Just want to give my thoughts here. I didn't watch the episode, and won't either now that I know Ash lost. For me I spent the last 2-3 weeks catching up on about 70 or so episodes once I saw the translated title, thinking Ash might actually win. For me, I'm pretty devastated. This is my first post on the forum but I had played the games when they first came out in the US and when I first got into the anime a few years back, I caught up to anime and had been somewhat following the anime ever since. To me, this loss really hurts and makes me honestly question why I even bother watching. What's the point if Ash will never win? How is there any joy in that? Sure, there's the Orange League that he won and he "won" the Battle Frontier if you can say that, but every other time he's lost, and it's frustrating each time. But what made this so frustrating is it legitimately felt like Ash would win. He had an amazing team this time around and he had the whole Ash-Greninja thing which is legitimately very powerful, and the type advantage against Charizard. And then the episode title really got me hyped. But then this happens.

I'm extremely disappointed and I am in the camp now that Ash will never ever win a league. But if Ash can't win a league, how can he ever become a Pokemon master? And if he can't become a Pokemon master, what's the freaking point? The series has been going on for almost 20 years now, is Ash going to be a loser forever? His Pikachu should be an insanely high level at the very least. I get this series exists juat to sell the games and other merchandise, but what happened here really pushes me away. And you know Ash is good enough to win. I was hoping he'd win here and the series would turn over a new leaf, but I guess that isn't happening. Maybe enough complaining and slacktivism (NOT harrassment) may get the writers of future seasons to change their minds, but it feels like they're purposely making Ash a loser of a character which really makes me question why I bother watching.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

He'll never amount to anything. Best to kill him off.
 

Cevil

Well-Known Member
Heard the news and rushed over here as quickly as I could to see the devastation here.

I'm a little disappointed but not really. If Ash did win, they would've had to shoehorn in a last minute champion's league arc and frankly I don't think they have the time or schedule for that. If Ash is going to win, I want to be long, arduous, and very fleshed out. Preferably, I would also want it to be where his roots were in Kanto. But I can be happy that this is the farthest he's ever gone. He got to the finals, put all his chips on the table, and lost a close fight with a very tough rival who once defeated an Elite Four member while Ash himself went up against the champion and didn't get demolished like in other seasons. Heck, in the only time he made it to the semifinals, he was swept clean.

Though I have to say, this fight was still amazing to watch. It's definitely one that was on par with Paul's fight for me. Not in terms of character but in terms of pure action and intensity. It's clear though that the writers want Alain to be the poster child to Kalos. I mean....that should've been clear from the fact that Mega Charizard X is the poster child for all things mega evolution.

He could have promised to come back and challenge the Elite 4 and Diantha at a later date.

This just goes to show that Ash is a horrible trainer.
 

neopets21

Active Member
*GASPS*

So all of the members who said that "Ash will win the league" and ignored everyone that said that it was far from confirmed were wrong?!
And Ash can be kidnapped without actually winning the match??!

With that said, if Ash ever wins the league I hope he calls reserves and gets the chance to battle the E4, which will be hard to do without rushing the plot since we seem to be getting less time between the generations and lost probably the best chance so far to win the league since he could battle the E4 on Sun/Moon.

I guess that next time Ash meets a trainer that completely defeats his team in every match he does with him, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the place where he could destroy his dreams by winning a match against him.
 
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Joltik-Kid

Simply Fantastic ಠ_ಠ
Wonder if this means Mega Evolution won't be in Sun and Moon
 
Do you think this adversely affects the rest of the season in terms of reception, audience and critical? because realemtne I wonder if there will be people wanting to see the next episodes.

Good question, but I doubt anything changes. At least not to the point that we see a new style of series, ie Ash actually wins stuff. I would like that to change, but it feels like wishful thinking.
 

Darkness Angel

Lover of Fate-Chan
While I did enjoy the battle between Ash Greninja and Mega Charzard X. I'm also disappointed that Ash lost yet again it seemed that all signs pointed to him winning this. Yet the writers screwed him over again by making hime lose. What's so bad that they can't make him win one blasted league?
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
The anime is the master troll.

They offer tasty tidbits of incredible events and snatch it away.

Right now, XY and XYZ feel like a waste of time.
 

Cresselia92

SM Ash = New Ash
I've heard it said somewhere that one of the writers said the series would end if Ash won a league.

That was around ten years ago. The mentality could have changed from then... or maybe not?

Anyway, there is more about being a Pokemon Master than winning a League, so they shouldn't be afraid to let Ash win.

I wouldn't say that. He's won the Orange League (unofficial I know, but still...) and the Battle Frontier, and there's still Sun/Moon and whatever comes after. In addition, he reached the finals, something that's never happened before, and only used his Kalos team in the process. I'm convinced that if he had brought in his reserves, like Charizard, Sceptile, Snorlax, or Infernape, that he likely would have won.

Nah, it's way more likely that they would have given to Alain an even more overpowered team so that he could have crushed the reserves and win.

However, I admit that it was impressive that Ash managed to reach the finals with just his Kalos team...
 
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Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
Wonder if this means Mega Evolution won't be in Sun and Moon

Sun and Moon are introducing Z moves, which are like Mega Evolution as they require trainer and Pokémon to hold a crystal but involve the Pokémon using a powerful move instead of changing form.
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
I will say this though, I did compare this to Ash vs Paul in the Sinnoh League.

Similarities;
- Going into the final part of the fight, Ash has 3 pokemon left, whilst Alain has 2 left. This was the case in the Ash/Paul fight as well.
- The character going into the final part that had all of their pokemon take damage won the battle.
- Pikachu lost to the opposing trainer's ace
- Pikachu was the pokemon Ash began the battle with
- There was a weather summoning move used in the battle

Difference;
- In Ash/Paul going into the final part, all of Ash's remaining 'mons had all taken damage whilst Paul had a pokemon that has received damage and a pokemon that hadn't fought yet. This is reversed in this instance, where Alain's remaining mons have received damage and Ash has a pokemon with damage and two that haven't fought yet.
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
DP Ash had all those things too, and it's arguable even more so than in Kalos.

Now that he has gotten to every stage at the league, he can actually win the next one.

I don't know why everyone is acting like it's over more than Ash v Cameron, when I legitimately thought the series would be in an endless loop of Top 8s and SFs.


Because, at least from my point of view, Ash was going to lose in Unova regardless of his opponent. Kalos actually felt a win.
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
Ash is just like my Detroit Lions. He will never become a champion......

The Lions were the kings of the NFL in the 1950's.

And I am tired of Charizards.
 

Shego

90% Kissshipper
So Ash loses the Kalos League in the Final Round thus Alain emerge victorious. Well, this is the first time that Ash made it to the final round of the league. Which is the good thing. Serena also came up as the runner-up. in the master class.
 

Cevil

Well-Known Member
I will say this though, I did compare this to Ash vs Paul in the Sinnoh League.

Similarities;
- Going into the final part of the fight, Ash has 3 pokemon left, whilst Alain has 2 left. This was the case in the Ash/Paul fight as well.
- The character going into the final part that had all of their pokemon take damage won the battle.
- Pikachu lost to the opposing trainer's ace
- Pikachu was the pokemon Ash began the battle with
- There was a weather summoning move used in the battle

Difference;
- In Ash/Paul going into the final part, all of Ash's remaining 'mons had all taken damage whilst Paul had a pokemon that has received damage and a pokemon that hadn't fought yet. This is reversed in this instance, where Alain's remaining mons have received damage and Ash has a pokemon with damage and two that haven't fought yet.

Nice analysis, in my opinion this battle would've been better than Ash vs Paul if Ash actually managed to win. His loss just takes away all of the impact and tension for me.
 
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