• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Down to the Fiery Finish (934)

Mr. Reloaded

All encompassing
So any news of people bombarding official Twitter or where those fake calls people made, I mean the amourshipping nuke made them apologize.

But something of this magnitude doesn't seem to be making waves? Is the romance of 10 years old more important than 20 years of fulfillment?
As Sonic Boom just posted, a large portion of viewers largely consisted of people who obviously quit the anime over a decade ago and only came back because of the possibility. They don't know enough/care enough about the anime to know anyone behind it. And as such social media raids are low (thank god).

Shippers are obviously a very different story.
 

Vidar89

Well-Known Member
So any news of people bombarding official Twitter or where those fake calls people made, I mean the amourshipping nuke made them apologize.

But something of this magnitude doesn't seem to be making waves? Is the romance of 10 years old more important than 20 years of fulfillment?
Well it looks like that even the Animators are pissed about the Fact that Ash lost. Speaks Volume.
 

Franckie

Well-Known Member
Pros:
  • Ash making it to the finals
  • Ash narrowly losing the finals
  • Ash using Rain Dance as a form of proper strategy
  • Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard had good animation
Cons:
  • Charizard shrugging off a Thunderbolt
  • Goodra getting KO'd without winning a match
  • Greninja not using water attacks on Charizard while Rain Dance was still in effect
Other than that I thought the conclusion to Ash vs. Alain wasn't shabby and was within my expectations. The animation was good as was the music.
 

KurashiDragon

Well-Known Member
From what i saw greninja took like 5-7 hits and charizard took about 8-11 hits most of them in his base form there was no way charizard should've hung on
 

Billybo10K

Silent Trainer

greninjamaster

Well-Known Member
Kanto didn't deserved a free pass since the tournament are all about battles. The same battles we know about the first 70 episodes. And they're still trash, especially when 25 episodes later we got one of the best 6vs6 fights together with Ash vs Gary in whole OS.

Also quality is based of facts. And the Indigo league have a ton facts why it's the worst.
You saw Ash in 5 battles in Kanto and Gary lose in his 4th round match which Ash won against an OP Bellsprout. Kanto league was much more enjoyable and character developed than Kalos. Kalos and Unova are the worst leagues by far.
 

patrickab7

Active Member
It's too bad, really. I've followed the anime faithfully for quite a while...I started watching regularly around the start of the Orange League arc, back when Kids WB was showing reruns five days a week and we got to see Problem With Paras about once a month. My interest had gradually decreased over time, but I kept up on the show. REALLY liked his team this time around and Serena was one of the best female companions in a while (I say that as someone who was a pretty big Ash/Misty "shipper" back in the day). Not ashamed to say that I was psyched for this final...glad Ash made it as far as he did, disappointed that he fell short in the end.
 
For all we know, the writers have something else in future episodes that they consider an emotional high to offset the loss. Then again, it's not even been 12 hours yet.
I understand what you're saying. The problem is there's nothing that can redeem this loss. Ash STILL lost the League, despite the fact that he should have won. To me, none of the Team Flare stuff matters. None of the Team stuff ever mattered to me, it ends up being a big explosion fest with no real payoff beyond the world gets saved. Squishy will go back to protecting the region and the protagonists move on. It's not like Squishy/Zygarde would get caught.

I mean unless you mean to say something like Ash will get his head out of his rear and start taking on the Leagues again and try again and actually win, then it's really meaningless. Ash has been a loser for far too long, he has gone baby steps in the last decade in achieving his dreams and has failed in his goal in each region he's been in, in winning the region League Champsionship. Unless we actually start to see Ash truly grow as a character, and have the results to show for it, it's hard to get enthusiastic about the anime.
 

Kabuto

little punks!
Seriously, what's stopping Ash from winning a Pokemon League tournament? While I admit that it's a step up for Ash to make it into the finals, it's rather frustrating to follow a show for almost 20 years and have the main protagonist fail to win every major tournament he's ever entered. (The Orange League and Battle Frontier don't count as major tournaments, and even the Battle Frontier was almost 10 years ago at this point...)

So, yeah, it's really disappointing. Ash should have had this League in the bag, but always loses due to some form of reverse dues ex machina.

Indigo League: Ash fails to win due to a disobeying Charizard. If Charizard would have listened, I honestly think he could've wiped the floor with the competition there.
Johto League: Honestly, this is the one league I'll admit Ash lost fairly legitimately.
Hoenn League: Ash lost legitimately, but if Ash called upon any of his reserves, he should have had the competition in the bag. Even still, Pikachu should've taken that fight.
Sinnoh League: Ash lost due to a cheap ubers trainer with a Darkrai and Latios
Unova League: Even disregarding the fact that Ash didn't call on his reserves, he still should have easily been able to take out that Riolu
Kalos League: Greninja honestly should've had that fight dominated due to type advantage.

But yeah....the fight of Alain vs Ash/Charizard X vs Greninja was pretty good battle on its own, but.. I just dislike the greater significance it has for the series.
 
Last edited:

AuraChannelerChris

It's potion time!
Seriously, what's stopping Ash from winning a Pokemon League tournament?
Because the writers think him winning a league equals ending when in truth they don't even know the first thing about good writing.
 

Afrodisiac

break up w yo gf, im bored
Watched the RAW. Right now, I'm convinced Pikachu tanked more damage than Greninja.
But keep in mind Pikachu fought normal Zard while Greninja faced the mega.

Pikachu is still imo the one and only MVP of the league, no doubt about that.

And maybe Hawlucha in 2nd place.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
Seriously, what's stopping Ash from winning a Pokemon League tournament?
Literally nothing. Like I keep saying, there's never going to be an issue of Ash getting too strong because he won the Battle Frontier which objectively uses stronger Pokémon than gym leaders and even most league rivals (minus Tobias).

The other excuse is that he wouldn't collect badges again after winning a league. But guess what? No ****ing badges in Alola.

He lost for no reason no matter how you look at it, and they didn't even let him lose gracefully. It was just bad artificial writing.
 
hey, hey, hey we're all mad now but this is all structured so that ppl (the 10% that are left after this anyway) don't get AS pissed when Ash inevitably loses to a starter in the 1st Alola episode :)
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
I'm actually completely okay with Ash losing to something weak right at the start of Sun/Moon. In all this I never actually expecting SM to start off any different to other sagas. While I expected the win, I didn't ever think that Ash would progress per se.

They really didn't need to ruin the Kalos League though. They just didn't.
 

CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
Well it looks like that even the Animators are pissed about the Fact that Ash lost. Speaks Volume.
lol. The animators were the only ones even carrying their weight this league. Aside from the scoreboard errors I mean; those were on them.

Anyways, some more notes about this episode now that I've calmed down:

- Why did the Team Flare arc have to happen after the Kalos League again? Now that I've seen the transition, there really is no reason other than to have Lysandre meet Ash. And they could've had him meet Ash in any other way. Don't give me the "he finally collected enough mega energy" crap because that's an indefinitely ambiguous concept and we all know it.

- So is no one going to question the giant destructo-disk? Or is it just going to exist for the sake of trolling the fanbase? I'm going for the latter. Thanks for creating another plothole just for the sake of tricking the fans, writers.

- Is anyone else getting sick of the close-ups to Serena's face while she says "Satoshi" in a really passionate tone? I know this has been an on-going thing that I've already complained about but gosh darnit, it's not helping the writers' case of just how messed up their priorities were this league. Show Serena when Ash wins, or when Ash loses or something, not for every single thing he does.

- Team Rocket were surprisingly among the best part of this episode. Their reaction to Ash losing was so on point. They really wanted him to win too.

- So I get that they want Alain to switch to the good side now. But having him become champion isn't exactly a good motivation. I mean, whatever Alain's doing in his angst world is working. Having him lose to Ash would've been a better wake-up call.

- So why did Ash not call Water Shuriken back when Rain Dance was in effect and Charizard hadn't mega evolved yet? Great, now I'm going to be convinced that the only reason he lost was because the writers once again decided to have him make a dumb call. It's sad because typically in XY, he's been better at things like this. Like calling Fletchinder to use Steel Wing on a Fairy Type once Trick Room was down. It makes Ash seem out-of-character.

- Goodra was taken out by Guillotine. Fair enough. It would've been nice if they put a little more emphasis on Goodra's struggle/disappointment in getting his first lost, and used it as a springboard for further development. lol, I doubt it.

- This match didn't help to convince me that this is Ash's "Ultimate Team." The only convincing argument they have is that Torterra isn't on it.
 

GarchompChain

Well-Known Member
Seriously, what's stopping Ash from winning a Pokemon League tournament? While I admit that it's a step up for Ash to make it into the finals, it's rather frustrating to follow a show for almost 20 years and have the main protagonist fail to win every major tournament he's ever entered. (The Orange League and Battle Frontier don't count as major tournaments, and even the Battle Frontier was almost 10 years ago at this point...)

So, yeah, it's really disappointing. Ash should have had this League in the bag, but always loses due to some form of reverse dues ex machina.

Indigo League: Ash fails to win due to a disobeying Charizard. If Charizard would have listened, I honestly think he could've wiped the floor with the competition there.
Johto League: Honestly, this is the one league I'll admit Ash lost fairly legitimately.
Hoenn League: Ash lost legitimately, but if Ash called upon any of his reserves, he should have had the competition in the bag. Even still, Pikachu should've taken that fight.
Sinnoh League: Ash lost due to a cheap ubers trainer with a Darkrai and Latios
Unova League: Even disregarding the fact that Ash didn't call on his reserves, he still should have easily been able to take out that Riolu
Kalos League: Greninja honestly should've had that fight dominated due to type advantage.

But yeah....the fight of Alain vs Ash/Charizard X vs Greninja was pretty good battle on its own, but.. I just dislike the greater significance it has for the series.
I don't even think Ash losing here is the worst thing. The worst probably is that we saw Ash only winning one battle. That makes this the worst league yet. Even below Unova.

I didn't expect this of this otherwise awesome saga.
 

catzeye

Writer's Block
Link please?
First Answer in the Thread asking about the Reactions in Japan. Don't know if its true since I don't speak Japanese ( why I said it looks like ), but is likely that this is the Case.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...action-to-the-latest-Pokemon-episode-in-Japan

Take it with a Grain of Salt ( or a big amount of Salt since the Salt Level here is close to be Life Threatening )
Here is the image I uploaded to that thread earlier.

Untitled.jpg

Like I said there, I don't speak Japanese so I was going off of what the twitter users were saying. However it does appear that the animators were upset about this.


I've gotten over (most) of my saltiness about the episode. The writing was horrible. The buildup was there and yet they still can't let him win. I honestly would have been okay with a tie (still would prefer a win) but this was dumb. I'm just glad it was a competent trainer with background that Ash lost to, the animation was good and that Pikachu did very well.
 
Top