Down to the Fiery Finish (934)

[SH65]

He can win and still be there with us, there's got to be some way.

There is have him win the league and lose to the E4 of the region and after that Ash knows hes strong but nor ready for the E4 and he will keep going.

 

[UltraNick]

I can’t believe the ending

 

[Leonhart]

The match between Satoshi and Alain ended the same exact way that I had envisioned, although I give kudos to the animators for going all-out to make this episode look impeccable. It's almost as if they knew that everything else about this episode would be trashed by the fandom, so they tried masquerading the episode's presumed flaws with gorgeous details.

 

[U.N. Owen]

In the end, I wouldn't have cared about Ash's sorry butt either way. Just look at how he smiles off his loss. This is the next step to your goal. This is as close as you get to it, and you smile it off. I'm sorry, but emotional maturity isn't the lack of negative emotions. It's being able to show them, but not allow them to dictate any of your actions. That's where the mark is missed the most.

 

[Leonhart]

In the end, I wouldn't have cared about Ash's sorry butt either way. Just look at how he smiles off his loss. This is the next step to your goal. This is as close as you get to it, and you smile it off. I'm sorry, but emotional maturity isn't the lack of negative emotions. It's being able to show them, but not allow them to dictate any of your actions. That's where the mark is missed the most.

I was actually glad to see him shake off his loss and handle things maturely. I mean, would fans have enjoyed watching Satoshi sulk instead?

 

[U.N. Owen]

I was actually glad to see him shake off his loss and handle things maturely. I mean, would fans have enjoyed watching Satoshi sulk instead?

What he did was smile it off. That is not emotional maturity. That is emotional apathy at worst and emotional ignorance at best. I wouldn't want him to sulk on the floor, that definitely emotional immaturity, but something else should have been done in place of his apathy.

 

[doofinc]

Happy BURASTO BURN day guys

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Lol are people still upset over that?

 

[345ash-greninja]

So the second anniversary of the biggest heartbreaking moment of the Pokemon anime, which led to an enormous outrage and salt among the entire community of the Pokemon anime fandom has now come.

I was angry, salty, outraged as hell, it was to me that I felt totally betrayed by the writers as a Pokemon anime fan, I wanted to break and destroy everything in my sight, smashed my Iphone into pieces in a fit of rage. Was it unjustified, through? The writers gave a false hope to the viewers that Ash might win a League for the first time, through a hype-bait title named Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Ultimate Decisive Match!! and showed a raging Orange Shuriken in the previews, giving millions of fans hope that finally, after 19 long years, Ash is gonna win a League and make a giant stride towards his goal. And the this happened:

It was justified.

---------------------------------------------

But time has passed, and my salt too. This was an intense fight, for the first time Ash had made this far, the choreography and the animation of the battle was amazing.

 

[doofinc]

Lol are people still upset over that?

My salt has converted into meming BURASTO BURN and DORAGON CRO on this day.

 

[blizzardblaze]

Well, at least we still have fanfictions that are in progress or are online that can fill the holes, partially in people's broken hope that Ash would win the Kalos League. Still, this monumental battle was so awesome, with the action and beautiful animation!

 

[keepitsimple]

this league was really badly written lol. can we go back to leagues that we actually get to see most of, like in Sinnoh and Hoenn please?

I wonder if the writers can cause another meltdown of this size again? Maybe having Ash losing in the preliminaries next time or something would do it. 8D

 

[blizzardblaze]

please don't make people even more angry than before keepitsimple rage can come around time and time again. especially if the guy who says he'll win all the time gets the victory instead of learning failure is ok most of the time...except when you're trying to save the world from an evil team leader.

 

[U.N. Owen]

This episode was not worth the fallout. I can’t believe merchandise burnings and death threats were sent out over this.

 

[keepitsimple]

This episode was not worth the fallout. I can’t believe merchandise burnings and death threats were sent out over this.

I can. Fandoms are full of stupid people =(

I read the earlier pages to see all the salt and there was one guy encouraging people to harass the staff in this thread

 

[Genaller]

What he did was smile it off. That is not emotional maturity. That is emotional apathy at worst and emotional ignorance at best. I wouldn't want him to sulk on the floor, that definitely emotional immaturity, but something else should have been done in place of his apathy.

Actually no he was specifically smiling in admiration of Alain’s strength (he even explicitly comments about it) and not out of apathy or ignorance. The first thing Ash tells his friends is that he’s sorry he couldn’t live up to their expectations (and I’m pretty sure that’s a metaphor for Ash apologizing to the audience). Based on what we know the best explanation for Ash’s reaction would be “I was able to give it my best till the very end and only came up short because my opponent was just that incredible”. In terms of character progression Ash was visibly upset for over a day after loosing at the Indigo League, momentarily upset after loosing at the Johto League and wasn’t upset after loosing the Hoenn League meaning by that point Ash was okay with loosing as long as he did his best and was competitive till the very end.

Ash got upset after loosing to Paul at LA not because of the loss itself but because of the resulting implication that his methods have failed to bring out the full potential of his current (and perhaps even prior) Pokémon. He shows a moment of being upset during the Tobias battle after 5 of his Pokémon are KOed because it’s at this point he realizes he never stood a chance to begin with though after that he decides to go out in a blaze of glory and shows no grief over the actual loss itself. Ash also got upset after loosing to Wulfric not because of the loss itself but because it was clear to him that he wasn’t able to bring out the best in his Pokémon. What I’m trying to get at is that Ash’s lack of a negative reaction when loosing the Kalos League is consistent with his character since he was able to perform at his absolute peak and stayed very competitive throughout. Of course whether you like it or not is your own business, but the fact is that his reaction was completely consistent with his character. Also in general there’s far more evidence in the show to indicate how greatly he cares about winning a league than there is to show that he doesn’t.

This episode was not worth the fallout. I can’t believe merchandise burnings and death threats were sent out over this.

Honestly in a sense I’m happy that the fall-out was so visceral since in a twisted way it showed that even after 19 years the fandom truly was invested in the prospect of Ash winning a league and finally making a giant stride towards his goal. Personally I wasn’t angry; just incredibly distraught to the point where I just stayed in bed in silence for the rest of the day though after that I got over it by accepting that he at least made a clear progression from his previous best placement in Sinnoh.

 

[U.N. Owen]

Actually no he was specifically smiling in admiration of Alain’s strength (he even explicitly comments about it) and not out of apathy or ignorance. The first thing Ash tells his friends is that he’s sorry he couldn’t live up to their expectations (and I’m pretty sure that’s a metaphor for Ash apologizing to the audience). Based on what we know the best explanation for Ash’s reaction would be “I was able to give it my best till the very end and only came up short because my opponent was just that incredible”. In terms of character progression Ash was visibly upset for over a day after loosing at the Indigo League, momentarily upset after loosing at the Johto League and wasn’t upset after loosing the Hoenn League meaning by that point Ash was okay with loosing as long as he did his best and was competitive till the very end.

Ash got upset after loosing to Paul at LA not because of the loss itself but because of the resulting implication that his methods have failed to bring out the full potential of his current (and perhaps even prior) Pokémon. He shows a moment of being upset during the Tobias battle after 5 of his Pokémon are KOed because it’s at this point he realizes he never stood a chance to begin with though after that he decides to go out in a blaze of glory and shows no grief over the actual loss itself. Ash also got upset after loosing to Wulfric not because of the loss itself but because it was clear to him that he wasn’t able to bring out the best in his Pokémon. What I’m trying to get at is that Ash’s lack of a negative reaction when loosing the Kalos League is consistent with his character since he was able to perform at his absolute peak and stayed very competitive throughout. Of course whether you like it or not is your own business, but the fact is that his reaction was completely consistent with his character. Also in general there’s far more evidence in the show to indicate how greatly he cares about winning a league than there is to show that he doesn’t.

Interpret his actions however you wish. I'm still not convinced it was admiration.

Honestly in a sense I’m happy that the fall-out was so visceral since in a twisted way it showed that even after 19 years the fandom truly was invested in the prospect of Ash winning a league and finally making a giant stride towards his goal. Personally I wasn’t angry; just incredibly distraught to the point where I just stayed in bed in silence for the rest of the day though after that I got over it by accepting that he at least made a clear progression from his previous best placement in Sinnoh.

Believe me, I enjoyed the salt, too, especially how people who worship Ash began firing off complaints about the Kalos League being rigged. Just look at these complaints.

Here's a list of stupid things said after the league:

1) Alain cheated because it was really sunny, so Malva or Lysandre might have casted sunny day
Objection 1: Let's ignore that Alain was using other pokemon who would probably not reap those benefits. It doesn't change or affect the outcome of those battles.

2) Alain cheated because the mega ring was sapping energy from mega evolution and giving it to Charizard.
Objection 1: This implies that Ash-Greninja is a mega evolution.
Objection 2: This is outright counterproductive on Lysandre's part, considering he needed energy.

3) Ash deserved to be champion because he saved the world.
Objection 1: This is the same logic the pity badges we detest use to justify themselves

4) Ash deserved to win because if he doesn't, Alain will make off with Serena and Ash-Greninja.
Objection 1: Slippery slope fallacy. That is all.

And of course, this

I will not hide - when it happened, I was in hell a fury (and that day I went to the "Suicide Squad"). I prayed so much to God that Ash finally won the League, but the miracle did not happen. I almost hated the anime for it, and was ready to sell, or even destroy the discs with movies. And the anger grew after the next season condemned our martyr to a miserable face and humiliation until the fall of 2019th.

And of course, the knee jerk reactions were funny as hell:

I'm over it! I hate this anime! And I'll never watch it! Not new not the old series. I would be the end of life to watch a Super Sentai (and I advise you) ... Almost 3 years were spent completely in vain! Lovely AmmourShipping turned violent advertising course! When Ash finally fulfill his dream?! How old will I be then?! 40 years?! 50?! 90?! 111?! 20th anniversary of the franchise officially spoiled... Ash and Serena to part! It will hurt itself! They should not break up! and besides Serena herself and her love for Ash were cruel publicity stunt, gives false hope. For this you need to brutally shoot creators! I do not touch more to this anime ever! My head is now gone in Marvel DC, TMNT and Sentai/Power Rangers.
RIP - AmmourShipping.
RIP - The hope for a beautiful and triumphant finale.
RIP - My love for anime that made me sick, and I do not want to remember...
Goodbye, nice forum…

But then it started going into obsessive territory. People began sending death threats to writers, flaming anyone who so much as liked the episode, burning Pokemon memorabilia, trying to doxx anyone involved. Satoshipedia began petitioning for an adult Ash in the anime and went on rants on how Ash was disrespected by being turned into a marketing tool while de-canonizing BW and SM months after the original incident.

There is salt and then there is religious fanaticism and the latter is when I personally stopped enjoying the salt. In theory, I could trace back the SM rabid fans to the Kalos League. After all, your enemies whisper, so they have to scream.

 

[Genaller]

Interpret his actions however you wish. I'm still not convinced it was admiration.

It’s really not a matter of interpretation. Ash flat-out says “so strong” in an admiring tone while he’s smiling therefore that is his reason for smiling. You can believe whatever you want (as long as you’re okay with the fact that your belief is objectively false based on what’s seen in the show).

But then it started going into obsessive territory. People began sending death threats to writers, flaming anyone who so much as liked the episode, burning Pokemon memorabilia, trying to doxx anyone involved. Satoshipedia began petitioning for an adult Ash in the anime and went on rants on how Ash was disrespected by being turned into a marketing tool while de-canonizing BW and SM months after the original incident.

There is salt and then there is religious fanaticism and the latter is when I personally stopped enjoying the salt. In theory, I could trace back the SM rabid fans to the Kalos League. After all, your enemies whisper, so they have to scream.

Ah... such passion brings tears to my eyes . I know I should feel morally disgusted, but I just can’t help feeling all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that the community was so invested in finally seeing Ash make a giant stride towards his goal though their hate does seem to be misdirected... the writers shouldn't have been the ones getting the “death threats”... it should’ve been the executives .

 

[keepitsimple]

Ah... such passion brings tears to my eyes . I know I should feel morally disgusted, but I just can’t help feeling all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that the community was so invested in finally seeing Ash make a giant stride towards his goal though their hate does seem to be misdirected... the writers shouldn't have been the ones getting the “death threats”... it should’ve been the executives .

You are having that already!

 

[LilligantLewis]

Most leagues are only 7 eps in general, and the writers probably felt it'd be pointless for Ash to steamroll random nobodies with Greninja, that's what that first battle was about. The two battles with Shota and Alan are still very good even with Ash's loss in the latter.

The early leagues showed more battles because Ash was a rookie back then, or climbing the ranks in Hoenn/Sinnoh, so it made sense to see more fights.

Actually, they could have definitely spent an episode on Ash vs. Astrid instead of Ash. vs....... THE FURFROU TRAINER