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Down to the Fiery Finish (934)

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Watch as he shows a plethora of emotions in the upcoming episodes though.

The argument that other Pokemon not on Ash's team are allowed to be tanks and take a lot of hits is a good one. Just not when it reeks of "because we say so" from the writers like it did here. We saw Greninja taking multiple leaf storms a few episodes ago yet it goes down in two hits here. Charizard tankiness isn't a good quality, it's a sign of obvious writing shenanigans.

I still can't get over them showing Charizard as the underdog, I mean what the hell is that nonsense?
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Got done watching. Decent episode.

As I've said, the result was pretty much the one I was betting it'd be. However, I won't be a hypocrite: I was unsure and at some point, I was even hoping Ash would win. His loss, at the first moment, felt dissapointing to me but manageable since my rational side got me prepared for it.

Honestly, I've seen far worse OOC behavior from Ash and stick to the anime. So, no that loss won't make me stop watching the show. Though whoever feels differently is completly right and justified on doing so if they do want.

In retrospect, Ash's loss makes sense. I mean, the build up was all for Greninja vs Charizard as the final battle. And here lies the problem: Greninja.

No, I won't say it's because the frog is overhyped. No, the problem lies to a criticism that I had for the "Winding Woods, Dawn of Evolution" episode.

Pikachu.

Face it, after all these years of service, would it be fair if the one guy who give Ash the league victory he's been denied for years was someone who was with Ash for only ONE region and not the one who has been with him since... ever?

"But, Pikachu's weak. It's team effort".

Blah, blah, blah.

It's the same ethical dilemma Ash has to deal during leagues. With the whole "should I call my reserves but ignore the one team who helped me reach this point?"

It's blantantly clear that had Ash give a quick call to his Charizard and Sceptile the result would be vastly different from a logical standpoint. And I say "logical" because even if the director somehow allowed Ash to use reserves, he'd still lose (because "eternal kids show") and there, my friends, I'd be as pissed of as you.

As for the battle itself, I'm really let down with Noivern and Goodra. Yeah, that's the generation the dragons would be nerfed but it should have happened in the metagame not in the show lol

Now, seriously, what was done with those two was all around mediocre. Yeah, they didn't stand a chance considering who they had to face but why following the game logic when the show has been ignoring it for several years?

If you really think about it, Ash did great because in reality he has fought with only FOUR pokémon. If the other two were on par with Pikachu, Hawlucha, Greninja and Talonflame (and yes, I do count him), Delia would be working up with that trophy lol

Really, guys, the post-Wulfric first battle episode (Winding Woods, dawn of evolution) annoyed me a lot more than Ash losing the league again.

Anyway, I had to say that despite my initial dissapointment, you know what changed my mind: how Ash reacted. He took his failure like a MAN. Like a mature man. A real professional. A true role model. Compare and contrast with how he's reacted after the Richie battle on Kanto and you'll see that, yes, he got character development even though it wasn't quite what the critics wanted.

And even if I've said "the league is cheap for not giving Ash a silver medal" jokingly, there's a bit of truth on it. Really, director and episode writer, what do you think you are doing? What kind of lesson that gives to the kids? That only winners get nice things?

Yes, in the end, the win is all that matters but there's a reason there are silver and sometimes bronze medals. It teaches being a good sport, that's ok if you don't win everything and whenever you look at that silver we can work harder to replace it with a gold.

Ash is amazing because he's managed to self motivate himself. Where many other characters would have cried, cursed or be incredibly pissed, he took it like a man. Like a professional trainer. And that's why he's the show's main character. That's why he's my role model - I said it and I don't regret it - even if I'm a 27 year old fully aware I'm watching a show for foreign children. Much like Ash has dealt with his loss like a man, I'll deal with my all the mockery for having Ash as a model like a man as well. Bring it on, haters! As we say on Brazil "pode vir quente que eu tô fervendo!" (literally "if you are on fire, then I'm erupting", an expression which means "if think you are tough enough to face me, just know I'm tougher than you!")

I was going to reason Alain's decision to take on the league and becoming the winner was because he was fighting for a good cause (he wanted to be the stronger man in order to protect those he care about while Ash wanted just to achieve his goal) but, after that little scene... Nope. All he wants is hooking up with a young chick *geminisagaevillaughs*

Anyway, I like the episode. Not much because the animation, plot, battles or how they handled the status quo determining the outcome. I like how the whole thing build up to this. I dunno about you but I had a great time speculating and wondering if he was going to win or not even if my more rational side knew he wouldn't make it.

It has been fun :)
 

Sayho1234

Well-Known Member
At this point unless it is shown on screen and not some sort of dream sequence I will never believe that Ash will win a league. Even if in the future there is a league episode title for the last episode in a league arc saying "Ash will finally win a league at long last!" I will never believe it unless I actually see it.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Watch as he shows a plethora of emotions in the upcoming episodes though.

The argument that other Pokemon not on Ash's team are allowed to be tanks and take a lot of hits is a good one. Just not when it reeks of "because we say so" from the writers like it did here. We saw Greninja taking multiple leaf storms a few episodes ago yet it goes down in two hits here. Charizard tankiness isn't a good quality, it's a sign of obvious writing shenanigans.
I agree but it should still be noted that only one Leaf Storm did Greninja appreciable damage, the other one it blocked with its arms and we saw no "Ash is in pain" reaction image unlike the other time it got hit with Leaf Storm.
 

megagodx

Member
I love how when Mega Charizard got hit by the powered up orange Rasen Shuriken, Charizard merely flitched it off. Then post-battle, seemed relatively unphased by anything it had endured at all.

This really was horrible writing in its portrayal of Ash's progress building up from the series. If he had to lose, then he could have lost in a more dignified and climatic fashion that's believable. This one episode (of the battle) seemed like it was the caliber of one of those sweep matches on just a random episode of the anime arc that just set up Ash as fodder to show off the differences in their power (eg. Champion, Elite Four exhibition matches)
 

Janovy

Banned
This is for sure. I mean, let's compare his reactions throughout all the Leagues.

[spoil][IMG139]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqIpSIeUMAAgFUV.jpg[/IMG139][/spoil]
Heck, even in DP, at the prime of his strength, he still felt a little pang of sadness upon losing. Ash being all that cheery despite the loss is... unnerving. It seems almost like he doesn't care about winning at all.
It's almost as if he's maturing more with each series and learning not to take a loss so hard.

I mean for Ash it's more about ENJOYMENT rather than VICTORY. Sure, a victory is great, but Ash is happy as long as he enjoyed a battle.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
It's almost as if he's maturing more with each series and learning not to take a loss so hard.

I mean for Ash it's more about ENJOYMENT rather than VICTORY. Sure, a victory is great, but Ash is happy as long as he enjoyed a battle.

So apparently Ash doesn't care about winning anymore, and just wants to enjoy battling.... you are never going to become a Pokemon Master with that kind of mentality.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
It's almost as if he's maturing more with each series and learning not to take a loss so hard.

I mean for Ash it's more about ENJOYMENT rather than VICTORY. Sure, a victory is great, but Ash is happy as long as he enjoyed a battle.

So why does he get depressed all the time when he loses outside of the Pokémon League? He's not so mature that he can't get upset, the writers simply care about him more when they're not writing his last league battle.
 

Janovy

Banned
We literally had an arc in XY where Ash got all mopey about losing and realized that the reason he became a trainer in the first place was because he loved Pokemon.

He admitted he was focused too much on winning.

Did any of you guys even watch that highly acclaimed arc? The one where Ash goes emo?
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Goku is the most acclaimed hero in anime, and his entire reason for fighting is not to win, but to keep himself from losing, and to keep pushing his limits to as high as they can possibly go.

Can't Ash feel the same way? He pushed himself as a trainer farther than he has ever done before in this League, going head to head with a trainer who himself can match blow for blow with a regional Champion's Mega Metagross. That's worthy of applause.
 
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TFRazorsaw

Fossil Trainer
Goku is the most acclaimed hero in anime, and his entire reason for fighting is not to win, but to keep himself from losing, and to keep pushing his limits to as high they can possibly go.

Can't Ash feel the same way? He pushed himself as a trainer farther than he has ever done before in this League, going head to head with a trainer who himself can match blow for blow with a regional Champion's Mega Metagross. That's worthy of applause.

I wish this forum had a like button.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
We literally had an arc in XY where Ash got all mopey about losing and realized that the reason he became a trainer in the first place was because he loved Pokemon.

He admitted he was focused too much on winning.

Did any of you guys even watch that highly acclaimed arc? The one where Ash goes emo?

Emotions don't work like a switch that can be turned on or off you know, yes you're right in that he should be more mature about it but cmon he can still look a little despondent afterwards in the locker room
 

jjgury

Well-Known Member
Emotions don't work like a switch that can be turned on or off you know, yes you're right in that he should be more mature about it but cmon he can still look a little despondent afterwards in the locker room

I agree, he doesn't have to be obsessed with winning in order to be a little upset that he lost in the finals.
 

Janovy

Banned
Emotions don't work like a switch that can be turned on or off you know, yes you're right in that he should be more mature about it but cmon he can still look a little despondent afterwards in the locker room
Ah yes, there was totally enough time to look despondent as terrifying vines started destroying the stadium and the entire city.
 

Markerz

Well-Known Member
Disappointment in a loss and being proud of accomplishments are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to display both, especially since Ash was psyched up about winning the League. The Olympics being concurrent helps drive that point.

I think most any person who'd have been so close to reaching their goal but falling short at the last moment would harbor some feeling of disappointment. It's just human emotion. This is the stuff that makes watching anything relatable. Sure, he can be proud of how far he's come, but that doesn't mean he can't be saddened that he was so close.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
I mean Ash's dream is to become a Pokemon Master (for sake of argument let's just say winning a league is a step forward to a Pokemon Master), and he came so close to winning a league. I'm not asking for him to suddenly cry and break apart, but he was smiling as if it's fine. Like really now, you are fine with a loss that potentially made you win a league? Yes you can be positive about the loss after some time, but the immediate reaction should be anything but feeling fine.
 

Cresselia92

SM Ash = New Ash
Ah yes, there was totally enough time to look despondent as terrifying vines started destroying the stadium and the entire city.

It could have happened before the vines appeared and before his friends came to "cheer him up", you know. Even a sigh and a shrug, which shouldn't take more than three seconds, would have been enough to show his overall emotions.
 
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