Down to the Fiery Finish (934)

[Shooti]

This right here is the ultimate troll title in the history of the franchise, a big disappointment as a whole. All that Ash-Greninja build up in the end counted for nothing.

Ash basically screwed up another promise he made to his mom.

 

[Xenon Blue]

If the disco shuriken is a one-time thing that never comes back and the only purpose was to get people hyped up for the final, then the writers are really scumbag. They don't care about consistency, plot or development, but rather wants to squeeze in as much hype as possible.

 

[matthew11]

So, does this match topped Ash vs Tobias? Because I think the disappointment here is far greater. Long story short, this league is the worst written league of all leagues in this show. Every matches of Ash in the league is important (you can count some supporting characters), and they decide to skip some just to immediately advertise the next arc like "Hey! Forget about the league! It's TF arc time!" by retaining the status quo instead of letting Ash win. What harm would Ash winning bring in the first place?

I was surprised though that so many people stayed up late just to watch this episode. So all the hype for naught... How disappointing.

 

[Ominous Wind]

So, does this match topped Ash vs Tobias?

In dissapointment, yes. In trolling? A tie. On one hand, they had to introduce an all-legendary trainer to kick Ash out of the league. And one the other, they had a big storyline and several bits that gave us some semblance of hope, only for them to crush it ruthlessly.

 

[matthew11]

In dissapointment, yes. In trolling? A tie. On one hand, they had to introduce an all-legendary trainer to kick Ash out of the league. And one the other, they had a big storyline and several bits that gave us some semblance of hope, only for them to crush it ruthlessly.

So in short, Tobias just came out of nowhere, without any initial relationship with the main characters, and his main purpose was to prevent Ash from advancing further. Alain was just a piece for a bigger picture, plus the build up for the so-called "greatest match in Pokemon History". Both resulted in Ash losing.

So, which one was more painful? All hands down; it's the latter.

 

[yuoke]

So in short, Tobias just came out of nowhere, without any initial relationship with the main characters, and his main purpose was to prevent Ash from advancing further. Alain was just a piece for a bigger picture, plus the build up for the so-called "greatest match in Pokemon History". Both resulted in Ash losing.

So, which one was more painful? All hands down; it's the latter.

This by far was more painful. When ash was able to take down a few legendarues and put up a fight against trollbias, it was a great sign and hope that ash would go even father in the future.

Here honestly, alain could led with charizard and maybe swept ash because at the end it looked like it was barely affected at all.

 

[Luigiman98]

I got something to say...what if this all part of a bigger plan?

Maybe this could be planned for the next episodes, some theories I've made in regards to it.
1. It's revealed that Alain's Pokemon were unwillingly augmented because he made some sort deal with Lysandre for the tournament should he win. Afterwards, feeling guilty for having cheated, reveals to Ash and the gang of their plan and what he did. After stopping him, the two decide to have a proper rematch and see who could win for real.
2. The same as above only this time Alain did it willingly, having played the heroes by fools in letting them think that he didn't cared about winning but he did as part of a plan with Lysandre. Afterwards, his title it's stripped away from him and it's given to Ash who now it's found to be the true winner of the league.
3. It turns out that the League was a ruse by Team Flare, using the winner's Pokemon as a fuel for their weapon they'll use for destruction of the world. The heroes defeat Flare and while Ash doesn't get the trophy, he gets something bigger than that, a medal given the governor of Kalos like in the ending of the source games. It could satisfactory than just winning a league, so I'll go with this route.
4. The same above, but instead, Alain decides to quit the trophy, feeling that what he did caused too much harm to the world than good, whether Ash picks it up or not will be decided later on.
5. All goes like normal. Of course, I don't think the writers are still firm believers of the status quo after these years so I don't think they could go with this one, but we'll see.

 

[diakyu]

Alain winning is a huge detriment to his character arc though if we're using the established character argument. Blindly allowing himself to be used yet he still wins one of the biggest achievements in the region that he doesn't even care for. He shouldn't be winning at this point in his arc, his character should be slowly decaying until his redemption in the finale. Yet here we are. He will come out of this absolved of all sins and with a massive achievement under his scarf. Bet he won't even try to fight the Elite Four.

But it's okay because at least Ash gets the moral victory LOL.

 

[MegaSalamence05]

Here's a question why the close up on Charizard's face and not both Charizard and Greninja. That's the thing that I'm wondering. You had it all right there like that's 100% trolling an entire fanbase right there. Like come on

 

[matthew11]

This by far was more painful. When ash was able to take down a few legendarues and put up a fight against trollbias, it was a great sign and hope that ash would go even father in the future.

Here honestly, alain could led with charizard and maybe swept ash because at the end it looked like it was barely affected at all.

You just reminded me of Ash's Charizard battling against Articuno in the Battle Frontier. He did a great job battling, even taking down, some legendaries.

Wait... So why didn't Ash use reserves in the final match?

 

[diakyu]

Wait... So why didn't Ash use reserves in the final match?

Because he wanted to fight with Goodra, I assume since he was part of his team during some of the region and it just didn't feel right bringing someone from the lab in. What a mistake though lol

 

[lemoncatpower]

Alain winning is a huge detriment to his character arc though if we're using the established character argument. Blindly allowing himself to be used yet he still wins one of the biggest achievements in the region that he doesn't even care for. He shouldn't be winning at this point in his arc, his character should be slowly decaying until his redemption in the finale. Yet here we are. He will come out of this absolved of all sins and with a massive achievement under his scarf. Bet he won't even try to fight the Elite Four.

But it's okay because at least Ash gets the moral victory LOL.

I agree, Alain's character is going to be built very off compared to what they could have done to teach children lessons about being used and what not. I guess it'll be solved during the team flare arc though to continue the lesson, hopefully.
I have a feeling Alain will just go back to study under Sycamore after all of this, or travel with Manon. I personally can't really see what else they would do with him. After beating the league and being 'absolved of all sins' as you put it, what would he be left with to do? Is that proof theyre definitely dropping him? Not that I thought he'd stay in the first place or anything. At least Ash restarts each region with new pokemon and pikachu somehow has stats determined by the rest of the team's experience (idk how else to explain why he sucks in the beginning of each gen), so they can use him over and over.

Because he wanted to fight with Goodra, I assume since he was part of his team during some of the region and it just didn't feel right bringing someone from the lab in. What a mistake though lol

Ash really does love his pokemon since he chooses to let them fight instead of trying to win by getting a good group of mons even though they've already had league experience. For the final battle though he should have chose the win lol.

 

[Zero1999]

This must be the only episode that affected all the people in thw world, this is the hot topic right now, many reviews, reactions, I thought this was going to last for a day, but now I see that the damage they did to the fanbase is going to last forever

 

[Ominous Wind]

Alain winning is a huge detriment to his character arc though if we're using the established character argument. Blindly allowing himself to be used yet he still wins one of the biggest achievements in the region that he doesn't even care for.

How exactly is him winning detrimental to his arc? But I agree in that him not caring about the League prior to meeting Ash makes his victory somewhat hollow.

He shouldn't be winning at this point in his arc, his character should be slowly decaying until his redemption in the finale. Yet here we are. He will come out of this absolved of all sins and with a massive achievement under his scarf.

Interesting. I suddenly imagined a scenario where Ash wins and Alain begins feeling like Ash after his first Wulfric battle.

Bet he won't even try to fight the Elite Four.

We've never seen any League winner challenge the Elite 4, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Kenny Pkmn Trainer]

So, does this match topped Ash vs Tobias? Because I think the disappointment here is far greater. Long story short, this league is the worst written league of all leagues in this show. Every matches of Ash in the league is important (you can count some supporting characters), and they decide to skip some just to immediately advertise the next arc like "Hey! Forget about the league! It's TF arc time!" by retaining the status quo instead of letting Ash win. What harm would Ash winning bring in the first place?

I was surprised though that so many people stayed up late just to watch this episode. So all the hype for naught... How disappointing.

You cant compare Tobias vs Ash to this.

Tobias vs Ash fights were WAY better and Tobias only used 2 of his Pokémon.

-Darkrai getting rekt by Sceptile, ash calling for Sceptile while hes in the Dark Void (i dont recall having a special moment with one of his Pokemon vs Alain in this match)
-Pikachu's amazing volt tackle vs Latios, which was one of the best battles in the anime handsdown(amazing animation too!)

Amazing, but yes you can compare it on dissapointment but atleast Ash lost that match fair and square(because legends are allowed in the Pokémon league) and tobias was too OP. ATLEASt they gave us an amazing fight to watch.

This match was different. Hype for nothing, poor writing of the entire match. Nah.

 

[Luigiman98]

What about if he just wins the medal from the ending of XY?

 

[LonelyShadow]

The entire battle didn’t live up to the expectation of being the final or ultimate match and it ended abruptly without any sort of build up for the final strike during the episode. It’s a very underwhelming battle compared to Mega Sceptile VS Ash-Greninja, you could tell that it was one-sided after they transformed; Mega Charizard didn’t show signs of feeling damaged even after taking hits from Pikachu and simply more hits overall, and yet he barely flinched after tanking the Cheetos Shuriken.

I’ll give it to them, the part where Greninja faced the thunder punches using the Water Shuriken as a sword as if he was emulating the gameplay of the Souls series was pretty cool, but even after all that effort, he barely manages to connect a pity semi-slash from the tip of the Shuriken that wouldn’t even hurt a healthy human being, the rest is just a spam of Dragon Claw that gave me flashbacks of episode #25.

I wonder if Goodra won’t be accepted as the protector of the swamp after they all saw its performances on TV. It’s also depressing to know that Alain and his immortal Charizard won’t have a taste of defeat in the main series.

Something that caught my attention: How much time passed since the match ended until the ceremony? It doesn’t seem like they healed their Pokémon during that period of time.

Until next week’s episode, I’m off to see the season when the Pokémon anime used to be good and where Ash did win a regional league, which one is it?

 

[thor94]

even if ash become runner up, it was the worst league ever.
the lowest number of competitors ever, most of them being littles rookies kids.
most of ash battles skipped (alain and sawyer obtained more screentime than our MC during the entire league)
Ash dragons where pure joke.
Goodra is known to be the weakest dragon type, and ash goodra is probably the blacksheet of its species (like was ash gligar and gible), mostly one of the weakest goodra existing.
and i can guess writers completely forgotten (or ignored) noivern dragon type and in their eyes the hatchling was nothing more than a bat like flying type.
that explain their humiliating quick defeat.

 

[patrickab7]

So emotional investment is wrong and a mistake. Got it. *thumbs up*

*slightly sarcastic

 

[lemoncatpower]

This episode has caused quite a lot of backslash, it seems. Now almost everyone in the internet agrees Ash is a zombie dead horse.

I think the most popular theory I've seen is Ash is actually the new the Trash type.