Agreed on the second part, but what I'm saying is that the writers wouldn't need to do that if they didn't want to. They wanted Alain to win (or the execs did, whatever). People are already crying havoc over the loss now, so it can't have made it that much worse if all his strongest team lost too...people would still lose their minds. Pokemon strength and endurance are so inconsistent that it wouldn't surprise me if Ash's Charizard had fallen to Unfezant somehow, just to achieve the intended result!
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Down to the Fiery Finish (934)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
Agreed on the second part, but what I'm saying is that the writers wouldn't need to do that if they didn't want to. They wanted Alain to win (or the execs did, whatever). People are already crying havoc over the loss now, so it can't have made it that much worse if all his strongest team lost too...people would still lose their minds. Pokemon strength and endurance are so inconsistent that it wouldn't surprise me if Ash's Charizard had fallen to Unfezant somehow, just to achieve the intended result!
Navin
MALDREAD
That's the first time I have ever heard of that anime.
Meh, I think the writers even realize that a team of Pikachu / Charizard / IKUZEfrog / Sceptile / Blazefernape / Snorlax would destroy every non-FB/E4 team on the planet.
Cresselia92
SM Ash = New Ash
So, you are implying that Ash is essentially the only Trainer that can afford to have a team full of strong Pokémon and that no other Trainer is allowed to have his/her own team of powerful Pokémon? Just because Regular Alain had only two/three powerful 'mons, it doesn't mean that an Another Alain couldn't have had a full team of top dogs, especially if he were to be the regional dream killer.
The plot decides the power of the Pokémon, so if the writers wanted Another Alain to have a team of OU Pokémon capable to rival Ash's Pokémon, then they would have given him said team in a heartbeat.
Disaster_Lord
Sad Bayleef is Sad.
On the second point, yes. Unless they treat each of them like Swellow or Heracross and force them to lose to create a sense of drama there is pretty much no way they lose one on one, heck Charizard only became a fall guy for using a fighting move on a ghost.
It breaks suspension of disbelief.
-----------
On the first part.
And yes, Kuma Miko is a SoL series with a sprinkle of dark humour. It followed the lifes of the people in a town where a young Miko was taking care of a shrine with a talking bear.
It was both sarcastic, cute and funny for the most part of its run. This is when the Anime writers started to take some liberties and it went to **** in the final where they destroyed the premise and took a hit by exploiting the social disorders of a little girl for comedy, something the original author didn't do, but took the blame for not supervising the Anime writers.
The Anime Writer and director for that episode HAD to take that episode from their resume to save face and the writer took a hit from all the bad reputation from this mess.
This is quite similar to the Pokémon situation in wich false advertising and contrived writing took away the "win" from a character and turned it into a lose that went against the spirit of the source material.
Honestly kuma Miko was praised similarly to XY in a way that they had great art direction, choreography for a SoL and it's punchlines as well as photography, for the environment and character focused scenes, along a great soundtrack to chill while watching, but was betrayed by Anime only writing...of the worst kind and false advertising of the arc as even when she won things went to the shitter.
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NegaiFreak
Plus Ultra!
You know, while it does still stink, I have to admit that the writers progressing Ash to the finals was really nice. Like, the kid made it this far, even without reserves! That's pretty damn impressive if you ask me.
Maybe I'd feel better if the match wasn't as hyped as it was through the scans and the Ash-Greninja AMV. Like if they decided to air that after the league and showcase a few more scenes featuring Ash-Greninja going up against Team Flare and such, then I'd be okay with it. Plus, there IS potential for a rematch. Not saying that it'll ease the pain all that much for some, but it will be nice to see Greninja as the superior Pokémon compared to Charizard.
Maybe I'd feel better if the match wasn't as hyped as it was through the scans and the Ash-Greninja AMV. Like if they decided to air that after the league and showcase a few more scenes featuring Ash-Greninja going up against Team Flare and such, then I'd be okay with it. Plus, there IS potential for a rematch. Not saying that it'll ease the pain all that much for some, but it will be nice to see Greninja as the superior Pokémon compared to Charizard.
Disaster_Lord
Sad Bayleef is Sad.
**** happened man, and it was a SoL, for its target audience that was sacrilege.
Pokémon is a global marketing monster, the audience chance to be offended is bigger.
Cresselia92
SM Ash = New Ash
That's my thought as well. I'm sure I would have been way more accepting and lenient if they didn't hype this match that much.
I gotta give kudos to the writers for hiding the results of the finale so well, though. It may have fooled people, but it shows that they can hide well the surprises if they want. Now, whether they are positive or negative surprises is another story.
I wonder how a writer would feel if they frequented message boards or social media and saw the hype being generated for the Finals, only to already know the result. It would almost be better to just pretend the Internet doesn't exist at that point. As for surprises, I suppose the only other big surprises left are how the XY&Z series ends and how the Sun & Moon one begins.
I'd be like
Haha they're never gonna see this coming >: ), I should buy the marketing team a beer for doing such a good job of keeping it under wraps
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TyphoonStrom
New Member
I wanted to say to something crucial on bulbpedia, but the forums are down now. Did anyone who view the XYZ ep38 scans recall one in perticular of Ash speaking with Malva, possibly post fight? I dont recall that scene ever happening in the episode. Does this mean the last 10 minutes or so were edited....
I cant find the scans anywhere though.
I cant find the scans anywhere though.
CupidKirby
Well-Known Member
It's kind of sad how in other battle shows, fans can legitimately provide analysis on who is stronger than who based on intuition, raw strength, and flexibility of powers. But in Pokemon, it's literally so inconsistent that it's just whatever the writers feel like.
As for Alola, I don't think I'd want to see reserves on Ash's team until the league, or whatever is the equivalent to the league there. Who knows though. I can't help but feel that the team dynamics will be screwed up either way.
Oh yeah, while we're on the topic of that, I felt zero tension when Ash-Greninja released that thing. There was no buildup or emotion, it just kind of...came out of nowhere.
At this point, the only thing that'll surprise me is if they evolve Pikachu (which is already confirmed to not happen).
That scene was from the first episode of the league.
Wow, so salty. lol
As for Alola, I don't think I'd want to see reserves on Ash's team until the league, or whatever is the equivalent to the league there. Who knows though. I can't help but feel that the team dynamics will be screwed up either way.
Oh yeah, while we're on the topic of that, I felt zero tension when Ash-Greninja released that thing. There was no buildup or emotion, it just kind of...came out of nowhere.
At this point, the only thing that'll surprise me is if they evolve Pikachu (which is already confirmed to not happen).
That scene was from the first episode of the league.
Wow, so salty. lol
pokedigijedi
Saiyan Jedi
I wonder how the writer's and executives feel about how controversial this has been?
If I am not mistaken at least one of the animators wasn't happy about how this episode ended but still.
If I am not mistaken at least one of the animators wasn't happy about how this episode ended but still.
Kazuki Mirai
Well-Known Member
I worry for the writers right now. I mean if some Amorshippers harassed a writer on Twitter... I'd hate to see the magnitude of this situation.
Lord Trollbias
Y'all Salty Bishes
Tobias wins 6-3
Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
I think Ash losing is a good thing because it proves that he and his Ash-Greninja are not unstoppable. It is a good way for the writers to show their non-invincibility.
I would have been so much more excited for the Team Flare Arc if Ash had won. Now I just feel burned out. All I care about now is seeing Lysandre face justice and finding out if the finals were rigged. The only way I'll watch again after that is the day that Ash finally wins. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed. at people for saying that the TF arc will fix their anger at the league? I'ts like telling the writers that making Ash lose like this is okay.
Oh and hi I'm new here.
Oh and hi I'm new here.
LonelyShadow
A Guy
So the only way they could find to prove us that Ash and his Greninja aren't invincible was to make them fight a trainer with a better winning streak and his Charizard that regenerates its health and stamina when it Mega-Evolves since it showed signs of being tired at the start and the middle of the episode but ended up looking more fresh after he tanked the final attack. Yeah, good job team.
NegaiFreak
Plus Ultra!
What LonelyShadow said. No matter how you look at it, the majority including myself will say the same thing: IT'S not good storytelling.
Look, we've seen Ash and Greninja's non-invincibility back when they had that string of non-wins and losses together during those trials. They needed to perfect themselves as Pokémon and trainer while also perfecting the Bond Phenomenon transformation. Look, they aren't unstoppable. They can get hit by moves and still take damage, but when you take less damage than a Mega Charizard X who took a bunch of attacks prior to Mega Evolving, then there are a few people who aren't gonna agree.
What frustrates me even more about this is that Ash is now being taken hostage by Team Flare now. Wouldn't it seem better if Team Flare captured the winner of the Kalos League? Like if Ash won, it would sound more sensible. Plus, Lysandre's strongest bodyguard would've been defeated. The reasons to hold Ash hostage are too perfect if he were to win.
Huh... What happened ended up happening, so this arguing is just pointless now. But come on, you guys. You have to at least admit the story would've gone by more smoothly if Ash were to win, right?
nuzamaki90
Well-Known Member
That doesn't even make sense. We already know he's not unstoppable when he lost to Sceptile and Avalugg. Or when he or Ash collapsed because of the stress on their bodies because of getting hit while in the form.
To see that Charizard who was already having trouble with an incomplete Ash-Greninja, go on a two week badge quest and then be able to withstand Ash-Greninja at its absolute strongest which is beyond what we've previously seen, in its now perfected form, is bull. Plain and simple.
Cresselia92
SM Ash = New Ash
Right… because it makes perfect sense to show how non-overpowered an overpowered character is by using an even more overpowered character, correct? Because Alain needed yet another win in its flawless win streak, right? And no, I wouldn't consider his loss against Siebold having much weight, because it isn't unreal nor a shame to lose against a member of the Elite Four, which are already Mary Sues and Gary Stus themselves.