DP 187: Satoshi VS Shinji - Rivalry Battle Finale

[Agility]

It's alright, I didn't take offense. It just irks me a little Pidgeot got the shaft so badly. It was promised by Ash they would meet up again, and that was the last time we saw it. Not to mention Pidgeotto itself didn't participate in any League battles. It would've owned Bellsprout.. Pidgeotto was my favorite Pokemon ever, sorry if I'm still vehement about Pidgeot 12 years later. Haha.

I know they don't parallel very well, but usually when one of Ash's Pokemon gets "released" it doesn't come back.

 

[Sparklingwater]

I didn't say "Use only the strong ones". Don't try to put words in my mouth. At no point did I mention he should pick Pokemon based on strength. So kindly please read before you try to make any assumptions.

What I did say is that Ash shouldn't continually use the same Pokemon, especially against an opponent who knows the ins and outs of all of them. What he should do is use an array of Pokemon who Paul doesn't know about. Doesn't matter how strong or weak people want to classify them. If its a Pokemon Paul doesn't know about, he can't counter it.


The thing about Paul is the he extensively prepares for each battle and analyzes his opponents Pokemon. Not based on type, but what Pokemon would be most effective against the opposition. Not unlike Ash does, but the difference is that Ash sometimes chooses other reasons to use a Pokemon such as using Grotle against Candice to test out its defensive capabilities.

But if Ash were to blindly send in the same Pokemon he has used against Paul, who were easily disposed of mind you, then the result will be the same. Expecting a different outcome while doing the same thing as before is nothing short of moronic on Ash's part. He said that he learned a lot about his battle from Paul. One of the things should be that using the same Pokemon all the time when your opponent knows how to defeat it is not going to win. Its not based on strength, its based on strategy, if Paul plans for a Pokemon Ash isn't going to use, then that plan falls apart. If he plans out his battle against Ash's Torterra, but instead he uses Sceptile, then Paul's plan falls apart. Because he is battling a Pokemon he didn't account for.

And the Ash vs Paul rivalry isn't just about only the Sinnoh Team, its about Ash's training style in general. And so its applies to all of the Pokemon Ash has trained before and any future ones he caught after that. So all of Ash's Pokemon apply to the "Your training style is wrong" argument Paul has. Because he isn't just talking about his Sinnoh Pokemon, he is talking about any Pokemon he has ever trained.


So next time learn to read, okay?

Actually, during the Battle Frontier, while Ash was vsing his second last Fronier brain, the psychic girl, he lost the first match 3-1 to Alakazom and Metagross. Then during his rematch, he use the same pokemon, Corfish, Taurus, and Pikachu. The same pokemon with better strategy have worked for Ash before and can work again.

Also keep in mine Ash's Sinnoh pokemon has advanced a long way since then. Buizil knows Ice Punch and has a much high concetration level, Gliscor has been training endlessly with that aeril master. Like Chariard, it's skills, speed, ability and level will be nothing less from outstanding. Staraptor hasn't changed much, Monferno has evole and master blaze, Pikachu will be at it's highest level like all final battles that it has been in. And Grovile evolve and has battle with stronger pokemon than paul (though it lost).

Also keep in mine Ash's battle with Paul, although 6-2. it was very close. Ash made a few wrong move, that if he correct this time around, he'll come out strong.

1) Gliscor could have avoided the crunch and gigadrain from tortera if ash was a little more careful.
2) Staraptor could have defeated Paul's tortera is it use Aerial Ace instead of brave bird to doge stone edge.
3) Grotle shouldn't have verse honchcrow in the first place. It didn't even stand a chance with ligh screen activated.
4) Staraptor although defeated weevile, it took a direct hit from blizzard. That could have been avoided if has use Chimchar.
5) Picachu's bolt tackle back fired by hitting all those rock tomb.
6) Ash should have return weezil when he wanted to, and not listen to weezil.

 

[monkeyboy45]

Anyways Ash better be using atleast one reserve for this.
Cmon if Paul gets new Pokemon for the 6vs6 again then why can't Ash?
Not including evloved (Infernape and Torterra)

 

[Shneak]

"Ash being dominant on the score board, Drapion changes the flow of battle for Paul?

So it looks like Ash is beating Paul to death. I wonder what gets knocked out.

 

[Locormus]

And ursaring getting to showoff its guts again makes me think its time is over as well. Their not going to pull of guts a 3rd time o.0. So assuming Ursaring isn't going to appear isn't too crazy.

Watch the bear spin a new one on us and use Rest to selfinduce sleep and activate Guts all on his own! Crazy! xD

It's alright, I didn't take offense. It just irks me a little Pidgeot got the shaft so badly. It was promised by Ash they would meet up again, and that was the last time we saw it. Not to mention Pidgeotto itself didn't participate in any League battles. It would've owned Bellsprout.. Pidgeotto was my favorite Pokemon ever, sorry if I'm still vehement about Pidgeot 12 years later. Haha.

I know they don't parallel very well, but usually when one of Ash's Pokemon gets "released" it doesn't come back.

I actually liked Pidgeotto's design a lot as well, can you all believe that it even had a move like Double Edge at the time? Not even Swellow has a move that powerful! I was really peeved when it dropped to the floor after getting Ash to his battle with Ritchie.

That battle should've gone:

Squirtle vs. Zippo (A Charmander): Squirtle wins
Squirtle vs. Happy (A Butterfree): Happy wins
Pidgeotto vs. Happy: Pidgeotto wins
Pidgeotto vs. Sparky: Sparky wins
Pikachu vs. Sparky: Sparky wins

And then Pikachu could've lost to Sparky.. whatever the outcome, this would've been better then the Charizard fiasco.

"Ash being dominant on the score board, Drapion changes the flow of battle for Paul?

So it looks like Ash is beating Paul to death. I wonder what gets knocked out.

What can get knocked out...

Magmortar and Honchkrow?

- Paul starts with Electivire, Ash starts with Torterra. Electivire sets up Light Screen.
- Paul switches to Honchkrow
- Torterra takes down Honchkrow
- Paul sends in Magmortar, Ash switches to Buizel
- Buizel knocks out Magmortar
- Paul sends in Torterra
- Ash pulls out the Ice Punch
- Torterra gets hurt badly and Paul decides to switch out
- Pauls sends in Drapion
- Drapion beats Buizel
- Ash sends in Torterra
- Torterra gets beaten
- Ash sends in Gliscor
- End of part one?

Ash has left: Gliscor, Pikachu, Staraptor and Infernape.
Paul has left: Drapion, Aggron, Torterra and Electivire.

- Gliscor takes down Drapion
- Paul sends out Aggron. Ash switches to Pikachu
- Pikachu is switched out after taking tons of damage, but dished out as well
- Ash sends in Staraptor
- Staraptor takes down Aggron with Close Combat, shocking Paul yet again
- Paul tries his luck and sends in Torterra
- Staraptor is knocked out, after being Giga Drained and Stone Edged
- Ash sends in Gliscor
- Gliscor is switched out after burning Torterra and hurting it with X-Scizzors
- Ash sends in Infernape
- Infernape takes down Torterra, after starting up Blaze
- Paul sends in Electivire
- Ash lets Infernape rest and calls on Gliscor for aid
- Electivire wins after a Giga Impact collision, and is hampered due to Sand Attack
- Ash sends in Pikachu
- Electivire wins, but Pikachu manages to paralyse it or something
- Ash sends in Infernape
- Infernape and Electivire are down to the wire while Infernape has already activated Blaze.
- Infernape uses the move that envelops it in the blue shade and wins.

Ash' pokemon

Pikachu: None, but is crucial
Staraptor: Aggron
Torterra: Honchkrow
Infernape: Torterra and Electivire
Buizel: Magmortar and does crucial damage to Torterra
Gliscor: Drapion and does crucial damage to Torterra and Electivire

Paul's pokemon:

Torterra: Staraptor
Electivire: Pikachu, Gliscor
Drapion: Buizel, Torterra
Honchkrow: None, beaten by surprise strategy
Magmortar: None, over powered this time by Buizel
Aggron: None, gets Close Combated by Staraptor.

 

[wildheart90]

"Ash being dominant on the score board, Drapion changes the flow of battle for Paul?

So it looks like Ash is beating Paul to death. I wonder what gets knocked out.

my guess would be Aggron, Magmortar and Honchkrow

 

[Locormus]

my guess would be Aggron, Magmortar and Honchkrow

Dunno... Leaving Paul with Drapion, Torterra and Electivire to defeat six of Ash's is what I like to call 'killing the battle'... I'd personally not look forward to such a situation.. because then Paul would be the comeback kid.. and he isn't supposed to be that way.

Coming back from a two pokemon down is not as harsh.

 

[World Turtle]

'No strategy survives contact with the enemy'? Sounds more like it would better be explained in the following situation:

Two people are playing chess for their lives. Person A is using an elaborate strategy to win. Person B can't handle the pressure and punches Person A in the face and runs...

That has nothing to do with working around strategy and doesn't work when your opponent is defending while at the same time being on the offence. I.e. Honchkrow with Reflect support while attacking.

You could of done better then a hypothetical “Chess Game of Death Situation”. First you can't apply chess to an actual battle situation be it one vs. one or army vs. army. Look I’ve taken history classes about many wars: 7 Years War, Revolutionary War, WW II. If there was one thing I got from all that it was that a single thing can change the outcome of any battle simply because the opposite side didn’t know about it. You can't predict the outcome of battle by strategy alone-it helps, but not totally, that was all I was saying.

The Sinnoh Team aren't the same Team as before they've evolved, learned new moves, etc. They've grown from the last battle.

Paul will be prepared of course he isn't stupid, but he doesn't know exactly what they can do now.

 

[ijea4444]

Watch the bear spin a new one on us and use Rest to selfinduce sleep and activate Guts all on his own! Crazy! xD

IIRC only para/poison/burn can activate guts, not sleeping.

 

[Shego]

I knew that it will have more than just one episode. It has the two-part episode of Ash's duel with his main sinnoh rival Paul in a full battle. So Buizel was confirmed to be in the battle. Paul has two of his new pokemon Drapion,and Aggron. I wonder if Glisor of his can join the party for a duel. Come on Ash Ketchum. You can do it! I believe in you! Your friends including Ritchie,Gary,Brock,Dawn,Misty,May,Zoey,Kenny,Morrison,and many others believe in you as well. You can beat him Ash. You must defeat Paul to show him the light.

For Ash's team I see:
Pikachu
Infernape
Buizel
Torterra
Gliscor/Staraptor
Glalie


For Paul's team I see:
Electivire
Drapion
Aggron
Magmortar
Honchkrow
Torterra

It would be sweet if Ash uses some of his reserves in the Sinnoh League.

 

[thunderblade12]

I'll try the "who will knock out who" thing too:

Ash
Pikachu: Aggron
Infernape: Electivire(final battle)
Torterra: Torterra
Buizel: Honchkrow
Staraptor: Magmortar
Gliscor: Drapion

Paul
Electivire: Gliscor and Staraptor
Magmortar: Torterra
Torterra: Nothing
Drapion: Buizel and Pikachu
Aggron: Nothing
Honchkrow: Nothing

Paul's pokemon are really strong and Ash's pokemon were really lucky if they even beat one of them last time. I don't see any of them managing to beat more than one, meaning all six will have to pull their weight for Ash to win.

 

[Sparklingwater]

I heard alot of talking about Gliscor defeating Drapion, but I beg to differ. Here's my ob servation.

1) The summary said " Satoshi being dominant on the score board, Drapion changes the flow of battle for shinji?" That means Ash should be ahead 3-1. It can't be 3-2, because it would be too close and the writer wouldn't use the word "dominant". It's definately isn't 3 - 0, because Paul's strategy, pokemon and character isn't that week.

2) Right now, which of Ash's pokemon is strong enough to take out two of Paul's pokemon? Only inferape. But we all know inferape will be use last or second last with some crazy blaze blast burn, so it's not that guy.

3) Assuming Gliscor came back, with some awesome new fight power and ability, Ash should be and will be more than eager to have it go against Paul again. This means Ash will probably use Gliscor first, or second.

4) With everything leading to this battle, and with Paul's pokemon with indedible fighting power, I dought that he's first pokemon will loose. It should be Ash's Pikachu tieing with Argron. Then the new and improve Gliscor will come out and take out two of Paul's pokemon, possibly Magmorta and Houchcrow.

5) After that Drapion will come out and take down Gliscor and Buizil.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Personally i'd laugh if Ash beats Paul 4-2, the same no. Paul beat him by the first time even if it is unlikely.

 

[totallylost]

I'm kinda thinking Ash's team will be like Sith lords and use emotion and the anger to score some hits (or at least Infernape and Buizel, maybe not the rest) Anywho, my two cents:

Ash will be using Staraptor, unfortunately he will be the fallguy, either weakening multiple enemies of greatly weakening just one. Gliscor will score a KO, and severely damage another. Pikachu will also weaken someone severely, possible scoring a KO. Torterra and Buizel will be powerhouses, dishing out damage. And lastly, Infernape will do his thing.

 

[thunderblade12]

I heard alot of talking about Gliscor defeating Drapion, but I beg to differ. Here's my ob servation.

1) The summary said " Satoshi being dominant on the score board, Drapion changes the flow of battle for shinji?" That means Ash should be ahead 3-1. It can't be 3-2, because it would be too close and the writer wouldn't use the word "dominant". It's definately isn't 3 - 0, because Paul's strategy, pokemon and character isn't that week.

That's a random interpretation... Defeating even one of someone's pokemon can qualify as "dominating"

2) Right now, which of Ash's pokemon is strong enough to take out two of Paul's pokemon? Only inferape. But we all know inferape will be use last or second last with some crazy blaze blast burn, so it's not that guy.

Infernape isn't either. Paul's pokemon aren't the same as a Gym Leader's

3) Assuming Gliscor came back, with some awesome new fight power and ability, Ash should be and will be more than eager to have it go against Paul again. This means Ash will probably use Gliscor first, or second.


Ash didn't use Charizard first against Claire, Gary, OR Harrison. He didn't use Squirtle first against Macey either.

4) With everything leading to this battle, and with Paul's pokemon with indedible fighting power, I dought that he's first pokemon will loose. It should be Ash's Pikachu tieing with Argron. Then the new and improve Gliscor will come out and take out two of Paul's pokemon, possibly Magmorta and Houchcrow.

5) After that Drapion will come out and take down Gliscor and Buizil.

Comments in bold

 

[SQUIRTLETamer08]

I knew that it will have more than just one episode. It has the two-part episode of Ash's duel with his main sinnoh rival Paul in a full battle. So Buizel was confirmed to be in the battle. Paul has two of his new pokemon Drapion,and Aggron. I wonder if Glisor of his can join the party for a duel. Come on Ash Ketchum. You can do it! I believe in you! Your friends including Ritchie,Gary,Brock,Dawn,Misty,May,Zoey,Kenny,Morrison,and many others believe in you as well. You can beat him Ash. You must defeat Paul to show him the light.

For Ash's team I see:
Pikachu
Infernape
Buizel
Torterra
Gliscor/Staraptor
Glalie


For Paul's team I see:
Electivire
Drapion
Aggron
Magmortar
Honchkrow
Torterra

It would be sweet if Ash uses some of his reserves in the Sinnoh League.

He can use them in the league all he wants, but this battle between Ash and Paul is for Ash's sinnoh team only. It is pretty much an accepted truth.

Glalie has no buisness in this battle. Besides, if for some reason Ash were to use reserves, there are far better ones to choose from than Glalie.

 

[Sparklingwater]

Comments in bold

Not going to argue about the word "dominating".

Chimchar is strong enough to take out Ursuring, did a number on tortera and eletrabuzz. Blaze Inferape should be at least 3-4 times stronger than the original Chimchar and the newly evolve Moneferno. That is why I said Inferape is will be strong enough to take out 2 of paul's pokemon. He probably will at the end.

Charizard is Ash's strongest pokemon. The strongest will normally be at the end. Just like this time, the strongest should be Inferape. The second strongest should normally be in the begining to put up a good show so the audience don't fall asleep and turn the tv off.

 

[Maganon]

Just for information, the person who took the footage he said Staraptor will face Drapion. So Staraptor is confirmed

 

[Umbilical Noose]

Just for information, the person who took the footage he said Staraptor will face Drapion. So Staraptor is confirmed

So does that mean the Pokemon in the pic is Staraptor? Or Staraptor is the fall guy in the battle while Gliscor takes the glory to beat Drapion?

And if that Pokemon is Gliscor then it would mean that Ash is using his team from last match. Pikachu, Buizel, Staraptor, Gliscor, Infernape and Torterra(just assuming it, for its unfinished business with Honchkrow).

 

[Frozen Sunset]

I see ash using the same pokémon he did at the lake but with more strategy involved. Although i would enjoy seeing him mix it up a bit (but he can do that in the legendary battle).