DP 187: Satoshi VS Shinji - Rivalry Battle Finale

[BM14murph]

Well it's looking more likely dat dis is true

Froslass doesn't suit him at all really

 

[pratik]

may be he underestimate ash and saving his strong pokemon for darkrai trainer.

 

[Platinum fan.]

Azumarill didn't suit Paul either but he still had one. Paul has so many Pokemon it's impossible to really prepare yourself for him for one region. At least he doesn't have repeated types of starters like Ash does, most of Ash's reserves are of the same type where Paul's vary, so far the only type we haven't seen him with is a dragon. Paul might be a jerk for how he treats his Pokemon and fellow trainers (Though he is getting nicer, especially with Barry) but he's got to be one of the best trainers this show ever made. He rotates his Pokemon and uses more then just flying, fire, water, and Grass. And with all the knowledge he must have for having so many different types of Pokemon it's no wonder he so good at Pokemon. If the plot wasn't against him I could see Paul being the Sinnoh League champion, though I'm disappointed that Ursaring and Honchkrow aren't going to be in his last match.

 

[BirdStaraptor]

Ooooooh NOoooooo

why?! whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay no Magmortar!!

Paul should use it vs. Ash

Ash is using his sinnoh pokemon is a good thing.
Paul is using different pokemon is a bad thing.

 

[Dax]

That team is SO strange. It's Paul though, I'm sure that even if his team seems underwhelming they will turn out to be deadly beasts.

Kinda sad Honchkrow, Magmortar and Ursaring aren't there.

It's just so weird to picture him with a Frosslass.

 

[Locormus]

According to someone who has seen Pokemon Fan magazine, which is officially released tomorrow, Ash uses the same team as his last battle with Paul (including Gliscor), and Paul uses a drastically different team.

Ash - Pikachu, Infernape, Torterra, Staraptor, Buizel, Gliscor
Paul - Electivire, Ninjask, Aggron, Drapion, Froslass, Gastrodon(East)

Did Torterra just fell of the earth?!? I'm upset right now.. but I'm surely not the only person here who is totally underwhelmed by Paul's entire team at the moment. Electivire is better when used to set up other strong pokemon.. Ninjask, Aggron, Froslass and Gastrodon just feel as if they could be taken down no sweat. And I'm not that worried about Drapion either since we're expecting him to take down a couple..

Froslass doesn't seems to be a Paul type Pokemon. I mean a Pokemon wearing a Kimono for Paul? They are making up for mistakes they made in during the saga like giving Froslass only one episode and not showing east sea Gastrodon.

I agree, we all knew that the Froslass episode was a failure for the species.. and I kinda forgot about the species.. It actually looks like something that would go well with the Darkrai trainer. Gastrodon should've been stuck in that episode where the Shellos got lost at Mt. Coronet...

Wow. I really hope this is true, although I'm a little doubtful. The only Pokemon of Paul's lake team that I wanted to see were Electrivire and Usaring and they were in the Barry battle. So I'm happy, seeing these supposed rivalries play out would have been monotonously repetitive. The main (and perhaps only real) rivalry ( Chimchar's evolution line vs Elekid's evolution line) is more than enough.

I wouldn't discount Torterra's grudge against Honchkrow as not being a rivalry, it for sure isn't two sided, but I felt that along with Electivire, and Torterra for being his starter should've at least been in this battle. We've never seen a league battle without somebodies starter, not counting the field stages of Kanto, we couldn't be sure which were starters. They could've put three new pokemon in Paul's team. Aggron and Drapion are good fits, and that team with Torterra, Electivire, and Honchkrow look like an intimidating bunch. What's been proposed as Paul's team for Ash now just looks weak to no comparison. Even Ash' 'Lake'-team (basically rewind Torterra being a Grotle without Leaf Storm and the EBswallowing, Buizel without Ice Punch, Gliscor without Giga Impact and Infernape being a Monferno without Blaze)could beat these chumps!:

- Gastrodon? Energy Ball + Razor Leaf and it's down!
- Froslass? Countershield Flamethrower, same strategy that he used with Fantina's Ghosts and it's even super effective!
- Ninjask? Countershield Flamethrower to prevent it from moving.
- Aggron? Flamethrowers, Water Guns, Mach Punches, Close Combats all work... Why is Ash using Pikachu?!
- Drapion? Bit of a problem, but not impossible seeing as the others are easy kills. Ash has enough high power attacks that do neutral damage. Dig for 2x hits.
- Electivire? The only real problem is working around it's defensive tactics. I bet there will be an opening after it uses Giga Impact...

Hahaha, no one is talking about Gliscor's image with drapion anymore.

And just look how many people are laughing along with you? I'm sorry if might be overdriving the harddisk a bit, but the few expectations I had left have just been whiped off the table and replaced by 'Plan C'.

Azumarill didn't suit Paul either but he still had one. Paul has so many Pokemon it's impossible to really prepare yourself for him for one region.

At least he doesn't have repeated types of starters like Ash does, most of Ash's reserves are of the same type where Paul's vary, so far the only type we haven't seen him with is a dragon. Paul might be a jerk for how he treats his Pokemon and fellow trainers (Though he is getting nicer, especially with Barry), but he's got to be one of the best trainers this show ever made. He rotates his Pokemon and uses more then just flying, fire, water, and Grass. And with all the knowledge he must have for having so many different types of Pokemon it's no wonder he so good at Pokemon. If the plot wasn't against him I could see Paul being the Sinnoh League champion, though I'm disappointed that Ursaring and Honchkrow aren't going to be in his last match.

Azumarill didn't suit Paul, hence it got ditched.

I however do agree with you.. Paul is a really good trainer, so I don't know why they made such a random move.. If it works don't fix it. His plan to surprise Ash with a different team will backfire, and he'll blame his loss on that decision, and not on Ash' skill or training style.

Probably the best idea you could have of why Paul is so good of a trainer is that he takes on challenges with predetermined/specified teams. The team he used against Brandon was a team specifically designed for taking down the Ice type, since he was set to challenge Candice. That sets him apart from Ash who used a team which was extremely weak to Ice.

 

[Gaiash]

I'm going to be honest. I really don't like the idea of Ash using his Sinnoh team for this battle. There will only be one other 6 vs 6 battle for Ash after this meaning he will end up using less of the reserves that I wanted to see.

 

[Dax]

Basically Infernape is strong against 4 out of 6. Guess who's starring? ~

That monkey is going to have a lot of fun sweeping that team.

It's funny though, because Paul apparently chooses pokemon to counter Ash's team but most of his pokemon are weak against Ash's Blaze monster.

 

[ShinyCharyZard]

Gastrodon and Ninjask do not interest me whatsoever... But Froslass? Thats took me by surprise and i actually think he's going to work wonders with it.

Possible movepool: Hail, Ominous Wind, Icy Wind, Destiny Bond

Knowing Paul, Hail would be used to activate Froslass's ability, meaning it could avoid opponents attacks much better. Ominous Wind will damage the opponent, while causing Froslass to raise it's own stats, thus making it stronger. Then we have Icy Wind which will work great against Torterra and Gliscor, but also slow down any other Pokemon it hits. The reasoning behind Destiny Bond is obvious, because that makes one less Pokemon he needs to take down in the long run.

Basically, i see Froslass being a very strategic Pokemon with it's stats and the likes. Paul knows exactly what Ash will use, but he also knows that he's become stronger... So he's prepared himself with a different team and different strategy, in order to wipe out Ash as soon as possible.

 

[CyberCubed]

Paul's Ninjask reminds me of Brandon's Ninjask.

 

[rocky505]

Didn't we already know Paul had a Ninjask?

Finally they show Gastrodon east. I thought it would end up like the games where it was only the pink ones.

 

[Nacreous]

I can see his Ninjark having U-Turn..hitting really fast & getting back in its pokeball.

Gastrodon might use Block on Buizel & would limit its movepool with Storm Drain

 

[togepilover12]

I don't like this at all. Froslass isn't really a Paul Pokemon, same with Gastrodon (East). They could have gave Gastrodon(East) a cameo in the league or have it with the LT trainer. Also Ninjask, replacing Honchkrow is a little too far. Ash's Torterra has to beat Honchkrow a least once and I won't like it and that will never happen.

Overall, I can't believe they are ditching Torterra, Magmortar, and Honchkrow. We know Electrivire is there because of Infernape. Weaville is replaced by Drapion. And Ursaring is also replaced by Aggron.

I just hope that it is fake so Paul will have his original team and if they don't, I'm not gonna be happy.

 

[Rokroad]

Why did they give Paul that awful team. No Honchcrow, Torterra, Magmortar and Ursaring ;-;

 

[KingMinun]

I guess Torterra never beating Honchkrow is sorta like Dawn never beating Zoey

 

[red2000]

I swear this is Gary all over again, we finally get a rival battle and they dont even give the rivals their strongest pokemon, eventhough Ash wins does it really mean anything? Torterra not being there is fine I guess, but those smug jerks Honchkrow and Magmortar needed to get beat

I'll try to make the best of it if they have some good battles, Gliscor vs Drapion is a start but i gotta say im serverly disappointed

 

[TheNewGuy]

I can't believe Paul isn't at least using the big 4 of Torterra, Electivire, Magmortar and Honchkrow. The other two from his lake team being dropped wasn't a surprise, since they both lost last time and Ursaring lost to Chimchar thrice (and Chimchar is now in its final form, knowing a fighting-type move) - Weavile has always seemed fairly weak, in the grand scheme of things.

I can also kind of understand the lack of Magmortar, since we've already seen it in the league and doesn't have a specific rivalry - but it is a powerful Pokemon and Chimchar's replacement. Replacing it with Ninjask is OK, I suppose. Electivire is appearing so that's fine.

But no Torterra or Honchkrow? Arguably two of his three strongest Pokemon? The only two of his Pokemon besides Electivire that have had genuine conflicts and storylines with Ash? It makes no sense on any level to drop those two. It's a stupid move by the writers because it makes little sense from a storyline standpoint, and if we're treating Paul like a real person, it's a stupid move by him as well to not use those two exceptionally strong Pokemon. That he's replacing them with, of all things, Froslass and Gastrodon just adds insult to injury. They're so anti-Paul...it's nonsensical. Please tell me it's fake.

Though at least if that news story is true, Gliscor is confirmed to reappear. But at what cost? This could have been one of the best battles in the entire series and though in terms of animation and logistics it could well be, it will always leave a bad taste in my mouth because of that unfathomable decision not to use Torterra and Honchkrow. I suppose maybe they're trying to make the point that Paul isn't sentimental, and wouldn't keep in Honchkrow just to maintain a rivalry, or he's been dropped to surprise Ash. But it can't be about that, can it? Honchkrow has rarely looked in trouble, apart from Staravia's surprise evolution, so how can it be a good idea to drop him? Even that argument doesn't hold up.

 

[~-Overheat-~]

What the f*ck? Atleast they could've shown Torterra! Horrible team that doesnt suit him at all. I was so hyped for Aggron and Drapion, but why Ninjask, Gastrodon and Froslass? This probably means we will never see Ash truly beat the pokemon Paul had we all knew over the years....

Hoping for this to be fake.....

 

[deathseer]

I might actually skip out on this battle. There are just so many idiotic things going on in it

- Ash still using the Sinnoh Pokemon. Quite honestly, Ash deserves to lose if he goes with team again. Its one of the main reasons I'm starting to get out of Pokemon. The only reason they are here again is because every attack Ash will go with will be " But try harder this time". Nothing's changed about any of them. They all still battle the same and they still have relatively the same moves. Its like "As long as you try hard enough, you can defeat ANYONE despite you getting beaten into next week with no problems at all". Ash has no strategy when it comes to Paul and he won't this time. All it is, is just him calling out attacks hoping that they hit.


- Paul's team does not make a lick of sense. Not a single one of his heavy hitters are here. Aggron and Drapion are okay, but Froslass, Gastrodon, and Ninjask? It's like they are trying to purposefully make Paul weaker so Ash can win. If Ursaring were here, he'd beat Ash into next week like he deserves for using the same Pokemon against him. It honestly feels like they are just handing Ash the win because he can't ever defeat Paul under normal circumstances.


-Infernape's attacks being super effective almost half of Paul's team. It's like they are setting it up to sweep Paul's team with Blaze. And we all know, once that comes into play, nothing survives it. It will be annoying to see that it gets to outshine all of Ash's Pokemon yet again.

- Gliscor coming back. It hasn't even been gone that long. What could it have possibly learn by only being away for abocut 40 episodes? It was Ash's weakest Pokemon and did little to nothing and there is nothing it could have learned in that short amount of time. Why in the world should it come back if its supposed to be in training, ? And if it starts to beat Pauls Pokemon left and right, then I will give up on this anime all together. Because that is one thing I will not accept.


There are so many wrong things going on in this episode that I am really disappointed in how their rivalry turned out. Its like they are spoon feeding Ash the win because he can't beat Paul in normal circumstances. They had to dumb down his team and get rid of arguably some of his strongest Pokemon just so that Ash can win. If it turns out to be true, then I will further believe that Paul is still the better trainer and that Ash didn't deserves the win.


This is what I honestly had hoped that they would avoid when I was thinking about the League battles. I had hoped that Ash would develop some actually strategy the next time he battled Paul. That he would realize that he can't be so static when it comes to his Pokemon. But I was dead wrong. In the end, they decided to dumb down Paul's Pokemon so that Ash can win while still using the same Pokemon.

Why else would it say "Ash is dominating the scoreboard"? It s cause he is sweeping Paul's team with no trouble at all. It like they decided to purposefully ruin the entire rivalry.

 

[Ash6K]

I guess Torterra never beating Honchkrow is sorta like Dawn never beating Zoey

I agree that it's a shame that Torterra won't beat Honchkrow but we'll see what this new team is like. It's interesting at least.

Oh and Dawn could always come back to visit Ash and co. in Isshu and she can be like, "Hey I have 3 ribbons already and I beat Zoey to get the 3rd one" *cuts to montage of Dawn using her pokemon to beat Zoey's*.

Hope that cheers you up a bit lol.

If Ash is using his whole Sinnoh team, and assuming that the writers are planning to use the reserves in the opening...that means this battle has to be the semis and a montage or a 5 second scene before the episode needs to be shown before the Ash vs. Paul match. Because Ash has 6 unused reserves from the opening and Heracross is already confirmed for the LT match. At least one must be used before hand. I'd prefer to see a short montage of 3 reserves so that Ash can have more choices to reuse pokemon in the LT match but we'll see.

Infernape is definitely going to star in this match. Paul basically changed his whole team besides Electivire. The last match is definitely Electivire vs. Infernape.