DP 187: Satoshi VS Shinji - Rivalry Battle Finale

[HoennMaster]

So, I guess it's confirmed that Ash beats Paul.

Yeah, because we know that Ash is battling the LT and it hasn't happened yet, not because of Paul using this new team.

 

[Champion Jared 14]

I'm trying to stay hopeful for this battle but then again, it is almost like the writers are saying "Here Ash!" A free, simple victory against your main rival! The cost? Nothing but a few pokemon!! Muahahaha!!

 

[HoennMaster]

Why, because Paul is using some Pokémon we haven't seen before? That is ridiculous. We knew Ash was going to win anyway.

 

[Champion Jared 14]

But it would be a lil bit more exciting if it were against the ones that we've seen Ash battle against through Sinnoh, but I hope that this is a decent battle, even though we already know the results.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Paul joining Ash for Isshu would be pretty cool. Paul decides he wants to learn from Ash and travels with him. Paul could replace Brock as well, as the one who explains abilities and attacks etc to the kids.

Won't happen though.

 

[Sparklingwater]

Paul joining Ash for Isshu would be pretty cool. Paul decides he wants to learn from Ash and travels with him. Paul could replace Brock as well, as the one who explains abilities and attacks etc to the kids.

Won't happen though.

Actually, I rather they ditched Ash and have Paul as the main character doing the Isshu saga.

I could imagine that after the sinnoh league and after Paul's defeat from Ash, he began to realise his love for Pokemon once again, and improve his attitude towards them. His training style remains the same, making him an unstopable force.

 

[Locormus]

Why, because Paul is using some Pokémon we haven't seen before? That is ridiculous. We knew Ash was going to win anyway.

It's just that I, and I guess some others, would've liked to see just a few of the big players to be kept in. I'm actually accepting the fact that we'll be seeing those new faces. But there will always be the part in me that wanted to see Ash beating Torterra and Honchkrow with Infernape and Torterra, and the chance for that happening is turning out to be slim.

I vented out a bit of anger towards these new guys, but I guess it's okay if they turn out to be worth the change. If the battle turns out anything like Barry vs. Paul, or even worse Ash vs. Nando then the backlash will be harsher then what we've had already.

So far the best battle to me is the Conway battle, which is shaping up to be quite the spectacle by itself. Though aside from Dusknoir I'm still a bit iffy on what a Lickylicky can contribute. Speedy Power Trick Shuckle's going to be a menace as well

 

[SLM]

Paul joining Ash for Isshu would be pretty cool. Paul decides he wants to learn from Ash and travels with him. Paul could replace Brock as well, as the one who explains abilities and attacks etc to the kids.

Won't happen though.

The chances of this happening are slim. I just can't see Paul making a complete U-turn personality wise.

However I would like to see Paul again next region.

 

[TheNewGuy]

As I've said before the problem here is "oh no, Paul is using new Pokemon" - and it's 100% justified. The Ash/Paul rivalry exists for two reasons: as an allegory for the whole "love your Pokemon" crap which Paul will be taught in his defeat, and to hype up a huge match between them in the league. Thus everything about their rivalry has to contribute to those two goals - anything about it is superfluous and not really needed to advance the story (though can still be used as filler, or whatever). As a result, the strength of some of Paul's Pokemon has been well established to us. Throwing us new ones out of left field might seem like a "good twist" to the guys who make the show but from a narrative perspective it's nothing other than bad writing. The strength of five of these Pokemon has not been established through the narrative, and while changing at least two of them was fair enough (dropping Ursaring who we've seen loads of and Weavile), dropping two of his well-established powerhouses is a bad move no matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't have been so against Ninjask/Gastrodon/Froslass if they'd replaced Magmortar, Ursaring and Weavile. But Paul not using his starter is going to be very difficult to explain, and not using a Pokemon with a well-established rivalry (Torterra/Honchkrow, though I would hope Torterra didn't win that duel) is as well. It's just bad storytelling.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

As I've said before the problem here is "oh no, Paul is using new Pokemon" - and it's 100% justified. The Ash/Paul rivalry exists for two reasons: as an allegory for the whole "love your Pokemon" crap which Paul will be taught in his defeat, and to hype up a huge match between them in the league. Thus everything about their rivalry has to contribute to those two goals - anything about it is superfluous and not really needed to advance the story (though can still be used as filler, or whatever). As a result, the strength of some of Paul's Pokemon has been well established to us. Throwing us new ones out of left field might seem like a "good twist" to the guys who make the show but from a narrative perspective it's nothing other than bad writing. The strength of five of these Pokemon has not been established through the narrative, and while changing at least two of them was fair enough (dropping Ursaring who we've seen loads of and Weavile), dropping two of his well-established powerhouses is a bad move no matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't have been so against Ninjask/Gastrodon/Froslass if they'd replaced Magmortar, Ursaring and Weavile. But Paul not using his starter is going to be very difficult to explain, and not using a Pokemon with a well-established rivalry (Torterra/Honchkrow, though I would hope Torterra didn't win that duel) is as well. It's just bad storytelling.

I agree and no matter how strong these new pokes are i dont care this ruined this battle for me I thought this was gonna be one of the best battles of sinnoh but now to me at least it will be one of the worst.

 

[STICKTOPIA]

Wow just b/c Paul's using 5 different pokemon it's the end of the world?! Get over it and move on! If you don't like it then don't watch the battle! Quit being babies and move on! I know it's not what we expected but what can we do about it? Just get over it...

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Wow just b/c Paul's using 5 different pokemon it's the end of the world?! Get over it and move on! If you don't like it then don't watch the battle! Quit being babies and move on! I know it's not what we expected but what can we do about it? Just get over it...

Ok one everyone is fine wit drapion and aggron cuz we know paul and they match him it's the other 3 that some of us have a problem wit. oh and by the way the whole point of this forum is to discuss the episode and say what we think of this. So you get over it if you don't like what some of us are saying ignore it!!!!

 

[thunderblade12]

I'm sorry, can someone please explain to me why these pokemon MUST be weak?

Fact is, Paul has always released pokemon immediately after seeing that they were weak and unworthy of his training style. Everything he owns must be insanely powerful. As opposed to Ash who just trains whatever may come.

Starly - The first two he released simply because they didn't have Aerial Ace. The third was released for not being strong enough even though it won it's battle. High standards is an understatement.

Stantler - He checked his pokedex and confirmed that it wasn't good enough. If Ninjask, Froslass, Drapion, Aggron, and Gastrodon were weak, he would have done the same to them.

Azumarill - Sometimes Paul gives pokemon a chance and lets them battle. Azumarill was one of them. But if they severely disappoint him, he will release them right away. I highly doubt Paul would use a newly caught pokemon that he wasn't sure of this late in the game. It's just not his style at all.


Chimchar - This one was a special exception. He oly held onto it as long as he did because he was trying to reawaken the power he seen when he first caught it. Ninjask was caught right before Chimchar BTW.



As for the other pokemon he held on to, they were all powerful and had no reason to be released.

Torterra - His starter. Only battle it ever lost was against Cynthia.
Magmortar -Made quick work of Maylene's Lucario
Electivire - Seems to be his most relied on and powerful pokemon
Honchkrow - Always proved to be tough.
Ursaring - Murders before it finally faints (after what would equate to like 5000 HP worth of damage in the games)
Nidoking - We've only seen it battle against Brandon and his three Regis. Count? no.
Aggron - See Nidoking
Hariyama - See Nidoking
Gliscor - Seemed pretty good based on how it massacred Gligar.

And now the one I always here excuses about


Weavile: A pokemon that I don't get why it's considered weak. Aside from the battle against Ash and Cynthia it didn't even have a battle with a conclusion. The battle against Cynthia certainly doesn't count. If it does than Honchkrow is weak too. Side note: Weavile and Murkrow were both caught BEFORE Paul came to Sinnoh so he's had them for at least two regions now. Aside from that there was the "battle" against Gliscor where it got knocked over (knocked over, the new KO.) I seriously don't get why that matters sense the same thing happened to Electabuzz. Electabuzz actually went crashing into Paul. And then there was the battle against Staraptor, the only battle it lost that was justified. Why can't Weavile be strong but Staraptor was just stronger? It really seems to me like some of you guys would claim anything certain pokemon defeat is weak. It took a 4X super-effective powerhouse attack for Weavile to even defeat the thing too...

So someone please explain to me why pokemon we haven't even seen yet are already confirmed to be pitiful weaklings?

 

[Misty Lover17]

I'm fine with Paul's Pokemon as long as Paul will not make it easy for Ash.

We don't need to see two Torterras, and Honchkrow's rivalry with Grotle was pretty boring....

 

[KibaLG8]

I find it a cheap win for Ash, I mean they downgraded Paul's team mostly, minus Electivire, Drapion, and possibly Aggron for the sole purpose of giving Ash an easier chance to win.... I mean they could have easily used Torterra, Honchkrow, Electivire, Magmortar, Aggron and Drapion, since the first 4 have yet to be seen KO'd by Ash's hands(Elekid fell but so did Pikachu, not really counted)....

 

[thunderblade12]

Not to mention the spectators of the last battle (Brock and Reggie) both agreed that it was a mistake on Ash's part to even let Grotle stay in against Honchkrow. Ash needs to call the shots, not his pokemon. It would have been a contradiction to see Torterra defeat a supposedly incompatible pokemon like Honchkrow. If he used strategy and withdrawn Grotle last time, who knows? Maybe it's defense would have helped against Ursaring or something.

 

[STICKTOPIA]

Thunderblade12 ppl think those pokemon must be weak b/c they don't "suit him". That doesn't say that they're weak at all. They haven't even seen Paul battle with them and they're already judging them. It makes no sense 1 bit.

 

[#1PokemonFan]

So, here is the full magazine scan (I don't know whether smoeone posted a full version or not) so here is the link:
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/Maganon/pokemon-fan.jpg

Looks like staraptor is going to battle Gastrodon (east), but don't know against whom Pikachu & Paul's Aggron are battling. It's kind of blurry.

Thanks man! It looks like Gible wont be in this match, thats too bad

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Not to mention the spectators of the last battle (Brock and Reggie) both agreed that it was a mistake on Ash's part to even let Grotle stay in against Honchkrow. Ash needs to call the shots, not his pokemon. It would have been a contradiction to see Torterra defeat a supposedly incompatible pokemon like Honchkrow. If he used strategy and withdrawn Grotle last time, who knows? Maybe it's defense would have helped against Ursaring or something.

I thought ash let buizel stay in cuz it wanted too not grotle?

 

[STICKTOPIA]

Thanks man! It looks like Gible wont be in this match, thats too bad

Well Gliscor won a gym badge for Ash while Gible didn't do that many things. I'd still love to see though lol.

I thought ash let buizel stay in cuz it wanted too not grotle?

Yea that's true but Grotle seemed to want to get back at Honchkrow for that last battle.