DP 187: Satoshi VS Shinji - Rivalry Battle Finale

[TheNewGuy]

Sigh... Torterra should have a lot more bulk now. Besides that, look at what it did in the battle against Honchkrow as a Grotle... It didn't use Rock Climb, and it didn't use the Energy Ball swallowing stuff. Those are two major improvements on Torterra's side, along with evolving of course. Paul hasn't imagined the possibilities of this strategy yet, and could thus throw him of guard.

More balanced team? While 5/6 are weak to the moves that Infernape frequently uses? I wouldn't call that balanced at all quite frankly.. but that's my personal opinion.

These are good points, but there was no need for a patronising sigh.

Yeah, you're right that Torterra is stronger, but that's not necessarily the point. The writers actually pointed out, through Reggie, that Ash's decision to keep Grotle in against Honchkrow was sentimental and silly. Ash needs to be smarter than that - it's not about whether his Torterra can beat Honchkrow (I still don't think it should be able to), it's about the principle of the matter.

I don't think Dig really "counts" as a ground move in the anime. It's usually used defensively or to surprise opponents from underground with a punch. I do see what you mean, but it would have been just as bad had Weavile and Ursaring been used anyway - both are weak to fighting, and Weavile's weak to fire as well.

 

[streetlightdsb]

Sigh... Torterra should have a lot more bulk now. Besides that, look at what it did in the battle against Honchkrow as a Grotle... It didn't use Rock Climb, and it didn't use the Energy Ball swallowing stuff. Those are two major improvements on Torterra's side, along with evolving of course. Paul hasn't imagined the possibilities of this strategy yet, and could thus throw him of guard.

More balanced team? While 5/6 are weak to the moves that Infernape frequently uses? I wouldn't call that balanced at all quite frankly.. but that's my personal opinion.



I agree, Pikachu doesn't have to be used in every battle, it sat out during Nando and Conway, and who knows maybe in the second round. The battle against Gary has little to do with my argument, as it wasn't the last battle in the league. The last battle in Johto was against Harrison, where Pikachu fought against his Kecleon. In Kanto Pikachu fought against Richie's Butterfree and Sparky, and in Hoenn it fought against that Meowth in boots. So the bases for what seems to be a tradition are there.

Personally I wouldn't like Pikachu to continue this tradition, as I would like some other underused to be showcased, but since the Heracross thing is proven legit according to Ash6K, there already seem to have been made some cuts regarding the ten(eleven including Heracross) reserves that were going to be used, like it or not..



Dodgy, dodgy, dodgy, dodgy take on Blast Burn! xD Of course we haven't seen it in the animé yet, so who knows.. It definitely isn't Flare Blitz, because as we all know that moves entails Infernape being enveloped in regular fire with it's body being drawn like Staraptor's during Brave Bird. So it's not Flare Blitz.

My bets are on indeed Blast Burn, Return, Feint, Punishment or Vacuum Wave?



Darkrai used Kamehameha? Lolzwut? Pikachu vs. Aggron is probably Paul, but you never know.. I wonder what immense pokemon the MDT must have to have been able to catch it in the first place. Also makes me wonder why Ash is the only trainer who uses unevolved pokemon...

I mean come'on! Pikachu, Buizel, Gible, Quilava, Totodile, Corphish and Bayleef are the only not fully evolved pokemon we're going to see? No minor pokemon from other trainers?

I think it's Gliscor.. The claws are glowing behind the X shaped attack, which is a big indicator to me, alongside with the purple, black and red parts of the body that it is Gliscor.



Love Gliscor more then who I assume you mean Charizard? Come back with your pointless, unbacked accusations after Gliscor has beaten a legendary or two and swept a mainrivals team. I count beating 3 out of 6 pokemon of a team a sweep. Especially the way how that battle went down.

I'll be happy though if Gliscor beats this Drapion, if this Drapion is to take out a few of Ash' team*. That would mean that it won against a gymleaders strongest, and a very capable pokemon of the mainrival. Plus, when you put Bastiodon and Drapion on it's battlerecord, that looks infinitely better then, lets say Muk's impressive battlerecord: 'Bellsprout'.

*But lets just hope that these couple of pokemon take out a few before biting the dust.

Pretty sure he was talking about Butterfree or Pidgeot dude. No one could say Charizard hasn't been treated well!

With this talk of balanced teams... Paul's actually pretty Infernape weak looking from a competitive standpoint lol.

 

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I don't want gliscor to come back. It totally ruins everything because Ash didn't train it and someone else did. That's what bugs me about its return. I don't get what is so hard to have another pokemon in it's place. Noctowl could have just as easily have worked or swellow for that matter.

Thats seriously dumb... what about Charizard, Squirtle? -.- he went to the old man to perfect his flying skills and Giga Impact, Ash was the one who taught him to fly, to battle, to have no fear it wasnt the old man thats just a dumb reason to not want it to come back and seriously everyone should want it to come back you can say wtv you want but the character was well written and developed and it was sad that he left, i wouldnt be happy for a perfectly fine pokemon to leave a team just because i like another pokemon more when i discovered Gible was going to be caught all i wanted was one pokemon to be Oaked since i doubted the writers still like to do the in training BS but as it seems it came back so im actually happy.

Seriously hating for the sake of hating is just retarded you guys are doing the same as Cyber with the Johto Starters...

 

[#1PokemonFan]

I have a feeling that Reggie would appear because he stated in a prior episode that he wanted to see Ash and Paul battle in the Pokemon League

I am also glad that this is going to be a two part episode. I wonder what Pokemon Ash is going to use?

 

[thunderblade12]

Thats seriously dumb... what about Charizard, Squirtle? -.-

They're "speshul."


Sinnoh team vs Paul
Johto team vs Darkrai trainer

I wonder if Heracross, Quilava, and Noctowl will all get two uses. Heracross is confirmed at this point, Quilava's last battle was lackluster and it'd look odd for Bayleef and Totodile to both be there but not Quilava, and Noctowl has Insomnia
for countering Darkrai.

 

[Eternal Darkness]

Aw damn it couldn't they have crammed it in one episode to further rush the SL?

 

[Locormus]

The image is to blurry, but with what looks like X-Scissors it could be Gliscor.

Also about Ash using his Sinnoh Team against Paul and how some of said it is a bad move on Ash's part because Paul can make a strategy to beat them.

Is anyone familiar with the term “No strategy survives contact with the enemy”?

It doesn’t matter what Pokemon Ash uses as long as he fights in away his opponent don’t expect. If Ash can use his Sinnoh Team in a a way Paul won’t expect any strategy he makes is worthless.

'No strategy survives contact with the enemy'? Sounds more like it would better be explained in the following situation:

Two people are playing chess for their lives. Person A is using an elaborate strategy to win. Person B can't handle the pressure and punches Person A in the face and runs...

That has nothing to do with working around strategy and doesn't work when your opponent is defending while at the same time being on the offence. I.e. Honchkrow with Reflect support while attacking.

 

[deathseer]

I think it means. "If your opponent has seen something once, he more than likely wont lose to it the next time"

Which could be applied to Ash and Paul's battle. Paul has already seen what Ash's Sinnoh Pokemon are capable of on numerous occasions. Since he knows what they can do, it makes it easier for him to defeat him. Doesn't matter what Ash tries the next time around, because Paul knows what those Pokemon can do.

But a Pokemon Paul hasn't seen however, turns the tables.

 

[thunderblade12]

The Sinnoh team has a lot more to offer from last time.

Infernape has evolved and mastered Blaze. I can see Infernape learning either Flare Blitz or Blast Burn during this battle as well. Most likely Blast Burn.

Torterra evolved and learned Leaf Storm. It also has it's Energy Ball swallowing tactic which Paul has yet to see. Rock Climb wasn't even utilized against Paul last time. It was stopped straight in it's tracks. This move can spawn many combos and strategies.

Buizel has learned Ice Punch. Aside from the type coverage this move brings Buizel, it can also be used in a few strategies. Freezing Counter Shield to create an ice shield and self-created Ice-Aqua Jets being two of them.

Gliscor has learned Giga Impact and probably became extremely strong under the Air Master's training. This guy gives me hope for Primeape, Pidgeot, and the others.

Pikachu and Staraptor may not have learned any new moves but I'm sure they've become stronger. Pikachu may have Thunder in it's arsenal again by the time this battle rolls around and Staraptor not learning anything new between the Pokeringer Contest and Ash and Paul's last full battle didn't stop the beast from beating a pokemon with superior speed, strength (Swords Dance), and a type advantage.

 

[jmk3190]

Do you think that Drapion Paul has is the same one he tried to capture in the episode he and Ash battled?

 

[Almighty Zard]

The Sinnoh team has a lot more to offer from last time.

Not counting Infernape and Pikachu since those two have at least done something with themselves since last time the rest i disagree on. Sure Staraptor recently got back with it's victory over Nando's Roserade but after fighting Paul's Weavile that win didn't seem very impressive to me.

Torterra evolved and learned Leaf Storm.

Which seems easily blockable and unable to damage random pokemon it has type advantage over.

It also has it's Energy Ball swallowing tactic which Paul has yet to see. Rock Climb wasn't even utilized against Paul last time. It was stopped straight in it's tracks. This move can spawn many combos and strategies.

That's assuming Ash remembers it can do that, ever since it evolved from Grotle, not once has Ash had it swallow Energy Ball before using Rock Climb.

Keep the following in mind, ever since it evolved Torterra has been able to create the moutains it could create as a Grotle using Energy ball without doing so, which might explain why Ash hasn't used that combo but if he doesn't remember it, Torterra's gonna end up 0-3 if he sends it against Honchkrow (who may or may not be in the fight.) again.

Buizel has learned Ice Punch.

And done what with it other than beat Mr. Mime? It hasn't won a fight for Ash since Fantina.

Gible and Gliscor haven't done much so i'm not commenting on either of them.

 

[Rentorra]

I'm really glad they made this a 2-parter =] They can take their time with the animation and the quality of the battle heh. Let's hope this is AWESOMELY EPIC!!!!

EDIT: At first I was going for Staraptor...but now that I look closely, it really DOES look like Gliscor. But I'm not going to say anything for sure. It would be pretty sweet if Gliscor did make a return though. He seemed a lot like one that was just around to be around. So it's good he might be getting more screen-time

 

[Locormus]

These are good points, but there was no need for a patronising sigh.

Yeah, you're right that Torterra is stronger, but that's not necessarily the point. The writers actually pointed out, through Reggie, that Ash's decision to keep Grotle in against Honchkrow was sentimental and silly. Ash needs to be smarter than that - it's not about whether his Torterra can beat Honchkrow (I still don't think it should be able to), it's about the principle of the matter.

I don't think Dig really "counts" as a ground move in the anime. It's usually used defensively or to surprise opponents from underground with a punch. I do see what you mean, but it would have been just as bad had Weavile and Ursaring been used anyway - both are weak to fighting, and Weavile's weak to fire as well.

Well, sorry about the patronizing sigh, it's just that I've tried to convey these points in Torterra's defence a couple of times already, it wasn't personally meant towards you.

I don't think Reggie new the full extent of Grotle's capability. From an observers viewpoint, it does seem silly for a pokemon to decide for itself to stay in, I mean what would be the point of being the trainer be? Besides that, Grotle had a type disadvantage, so it would make even more sense for Reggie to say that. But he did not know of Rock Climb yet. So if you take away that Ash let Grotle stay in and will send it in, with a strategy that could surprise Paul, it could do something which you deem as of yet impossible.

I think your logically agreeing along the lines of what Reggie has mapped out. And I can't debate that, it's completely logical.

I personally believe that Ash knew that Grotle had more in its box that it had shown and he was about to use it, but was knocked out before he could.. I believe Ash is willing to show that Torterra can disturb Paul's strategy he uses along with Honchkrow to such an extent that he can take a surprise win.

The Sinnoh team has a lot more to offer from last time.

Infernape has evolved and mastered Blaze. I can see Infernape learning either Flare Blitz or Blast Burn during this battle as well. Most likely Blast Burn.

Torterra evolved and learned Leaf Storm. It also has it's Energy Ball swallowing tactic which Paul has yet to see. Rock Climb wasn't even utilized against Paul last time. It was stopped straight in it's tracks. This move can spawn many combos and strategies.

Buizel has learned Ice Punch. Aside from the type coverage this move brings Buizel, it can also be used in a few strategies. Freezing Counter Shield to create an ice shield and self-created Ice-Aqua Jets being two of them.

Gliscor has learned Giga Impact and probably became extremely strong under the Air Master's training. This guy gives me hope for Primeape, Pidgeot, and the others.

Pikachu and Staraptor may not have learned any new moves but I'm sure they've become stronger. Pikachu may have Thunder in it's arsenal again by the time this battle rolls around and Staraptor not learning anything new between the Pokeringer Contest and Ash and Paul's last full battle didn't stop the beast from beating a pokemon with superior speed, strength (Swords Dance), and a type advantage.

Agreed, I disagree firmly that Ash should use reserves in this battle for the reason that 'Ash lost with this team and will lose again', since the pokemon that lost actually have been upgraded, with the exception of Pikachu. Who grows extremely strong in the late episodes of an arc.

Do you think that Drapion Paul has is the same one he tried to capture in the episode he and Ash battled?

It fled.. but then again I guess Drapion are pretty rare so there always is a chance, but then again it's still unlikely...

 

[HoennMaster]

And you guys actually thought there might not be a second part. It was quite obvious. I'm ****** that Paul is using Aggron. Of all the pokémon to be in this battle it had to be Aggron. Drapion is ok, but I would have liked to see a different new pokémon.

I'm still not sold on that being Gliscor, it looks too much like wing to me and Gliscor doesn't have wings. I really hope it is Gliscor though cause I love that Pokémon.

So Paul's using an Aggron? That's good. I guess Weavile & Ursaring are out.

And how exactly does Aggron meant hose two are out?

 

[Silver_Seoul]

I'm ****** that Paul is using Aggron. Of all the pokémon to be in this battle it had to be Aggron.

He had a Lairon, why is an Aggron so hard to accept?

Drapion is ok, but I would have liked to see a different new pokémon.

Paul has already shown interest in the Pokemon before so it's no surprise he (presumably) caught one.

I'm still not sold on that being Gliscor, it looks too much like wing to me and Gliscor doesn't have wings. I really hope it is Gliscor though cause I love that Pokémon.

Yeah, a lot of members that have jumped on that wagon could honestly be setting themselves up for disappointment in the odd chance that it's not Gliscor...

And how exactly does Aggron meant hose two are out?

Weavile is arguably Paul's weakest. Has never won a single match and has been defeated by Ash; Ursaring has also lost to Ash despite his massive strength and isn't one of Paul's "big three."

Honchkrow is still just as likely to be put out of this match as well but it's never lost a match to Ash, which Paul's team is based around so...

 

[ijea4444]

Not counting Infernape and Pikachu since those two have at least done something with themselves since last time the rest i disagree on. Sure Staraptor recently got back with it's victory over Nando's Roserade but after fighting Paul's Weavile that win didn't seem very impressive to me.

Every pokemon has gotten some new toys expect Staraptor and Pikachu, both pokemon that have always been able to hold their own against Paul. Pikachu is sure to get its power fluctuated back and Staraptor has beat Weavile despite being SD'd up and at a type disadvatage and has essentially beaten Honchcrow .

Which seems easily blockable and unable to damage random pokemon it has type advantage over.
Seriously. What move DOESN'T seem easily blockable.T-bolt, ice beam, iron tail,any punch, etc. And bold part, can be explained if you just cared to put SOME thought into it.


That's assuming Ash remembers it can do that, ever since it evolved from Grotle, not once has Ash had it swallow Energy Ball before using Rock Climb.

Keep the following in mind, ever since it evolved Torterra has been able to create the moutains it could create as a Grotle using Energy ball without doing so, which might explain why Ash hasn't used that combo but if he doesn't remember it, Torterra's gonna end up 0-3 if he sends it against Honchkrow (who may or may not be in the fight.) again.

Instead that makes energyball torterra more likely. If Grotle+Energy Ball=Torterra strength then imagine what Torterra+Energy Ball can do.

And done what with it other than beat Mr. Mime? It hasn't won a fight for Ash since Fantina.
Ugh. The kenny loss can't be measure Buizel's strength because it he wasn't at his full potential(he was trying out a new strategy). Its like if a cross country runner was running in a new neighborhood compared to a familiar neighborhood. You can't say the end results would be the same, and the same logic applies here.

And besides it was even said in the summary Ash was in the lead until Drapion came out, and guess who was battling Drapion? It makes it seem as if Buizel is the one that gave Ash the lead or at least was a part of it.

Gible and Gliscor haven't done much so i'm not commenting on either of them.

Despite learning Giga Impact, Fire Fang, how to fly without air currents and basically going to the equivalent of a Gliscorffic Valley. Gliscor has NOTHING!

And Gible's Draco Meteor is obviously going to be a monster move considering the hype its been getting.

 

[Agility]

Calm yourself, Locormus, I was talking about Pidgeot.

 

[monkeyboy45]

Suppose Ash lost to Paul
And Paul VS LT
What would happen?
Cause its not confirmed if its Ash VS LT or Paul VS LT

 

[Locormus]

And you guys actually thought there might not be a second part. It was quite obvious. I'm ****** that Paul is using Aggron. Of all the pokémon to be in this battle it had to be Aggron. Drapion is ok, but I would have liked to see a different new pokémon.

And how exactly does Aggron meant hose two are out?

I thought Aggron was a shoe in.. At first I already thought that Weavile would probably get the boot for Aggron since why would Paul otherwise have a Lairon? Paul with an unevolved Pokemon means that it will evolve. Just look at Elekid, Magmar, and Murkrow. Paul strives for the fully evolved mark, so showing an unevolved means that it will show up later evolved.

Now that we have Drapion confirmed as well, again foreshadowed in Chim-Charred, along with Aggron, that means that two of Paul's pokemon are going to get the boot.

Torterra: Never lost a battle
Electivire: Never lost a battle
Magmortar: Never lost a battle
Honchkrow: Never lost an official battle about strength
Ursaring: Lost three times against Chimchar/Monferno
Weavile: Lost in the full battle against something against it had a type advantage.
Gliscor: Nobody knows where it went after DP100...

Best bets are that Ursaring and Weavile are left out for this battle in favor of Drapion and Aggron.

Uhmm.. @Agility... Sorry dude.. I was caught up in the moment... I just figured you meant Charizard as Gliscor parallels it more then it parallels with Pidgeot. Since both Charizard and Gliscor left to get stronger, while Pidgeot left to protect. Charizard and Gliscor still share the common goal of proving itself stronger in battle, and best stage for them would be with Ash.

So again, sorry dude.

 

[ijea4444]

And ursaring getting to showoff its guts again makes me think its time is over as well. Their not going to pull of guts a 3rd time o.0. So assuming Ursaring isn't going to appear isn't too crazy.