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DP 187: Satoshi VS Shinji - Rivalry Battle Finale

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Lukah

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, just wanted to say this, a lot of you are upset because Paul isn't using his best Pokémon [Magmortar, Ursaring, Torterra].
So I was simulating what would happen if the battle was just like that first 6x6.

To me,

Torterra vs. Gliscor - Gliscor [It did so well that time, I really do believe Gliscor would have beaten Torterra]
Weavile vs. Staraptor - Staraptor [That Weavile is the weakling of the team]
Pikachu vs. Ursaring - Ursaring [That Ursaring is from Hell!]
Honchrow vs. Torterra - Honchrow [No offense, but Honchrow would win just like the first two times]
Buizel vs. Magmortar - Buizel [Paul took Magmortar back that time, but Buizel would have won]
Buizel vs. Ursaring - Ursaring
Infernape vs. Ursaring - Infernape
Infernape vs Electivire - Infernape [This time, with SuperSpecialAwesome Blaze, it would have won]

That left Gliscor and Honchrow standing. Let's just say it was a tie. I think they are equivalent in power.

So, from where I'm standing, Ash would have beaten Paul.
Therefore I think it's best Paul's team is so different.
I would have left Honchrow there instead of Ninjask, but oh well, maybe it's there for strategic purposes.
Ash made that promise with his Sinnoh Team to beat Paul so I'm glad it's back, but imagine if it just like that first time, it would be sooo boring.
Drapion is an awesome Pokemon.
Electivire is there.
Gastrodon and Ninjask are not that great in my book, but let's see what this battle reserves.
 
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TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
But Paul's hypothetical Bulbasaur could be stronger than Ash's. Just like Froslass could be as strong as Paul's Torterra.

Yes, we know that Paul's Honchkrow and Torterra are powerful, but chances are, so are Froslass and Gastrodon and Ninjask. They've been trained to be strong or Paul wouldn't use them. Froslass, Gastrodon, and Ninjask are not established as powerful Pokemon, but just because people seem to think that they don't "fit" Paul doesn't mean they are cheap.

It is very, very unlikely that Paul's would be stronger - oh yeah, and Paul would have evolved Bulbasaur anyway. Either way, it's not about that - it's about good storytelling. You have to use the narrative to establish Pokemon as strong before that strength can have any legitimacy. So we'd expect a weak Bulbasaur and would rightfully complain if he was revealed to be using one, especially at this stage.

You're acting like the characters are real, but this is a story told from Ash's perspective. In the final battle between him and the antagonist, the antagonist cannot use Pokemon and then say "oh yeah, these Pokemon are strong as well". You use the other, ultimately meaningless, battles (whether vs. Ash, or even Cynthia/Brandon or Barry) to showcase his Pokemon and their various levels of strength - thus establishing their strength through the narrative. If Froslass and Ninjask turn out to be strong then they should have been introduced earlier and shown to have that strength. If they turn out to be weak and go down in one hit, it is clear that the writers have only introduced them as mooks to go down easily so they can introduce this "Ash dominates the scoreboard before Drapion pulls it back" idea.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
its infernape Une-K
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I have to say, I honestly didn't mind what Pokemon Paul used beyond the I-thought-obvious three of Electivire, Torterra and Honchkrow. I expected Magmortar as well, but he didn't really need to appear. I also wanted Ash's Gliscor vs. Paul's Gliscor, since there's at least some kind of storyline there since that capture was shown on-screen and Paul's used to lead Ash's, but I didn't really didn't expect it.

But I consider dropping those and not replacing them with established, strong Pokemon like, say, his Nidoking to be a slap in the face.
 
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SketchFox7

Well-Known Member
I do have to admit, that if you zoom in on the stillshot of Paul/Drapion and Ash/???, you CAN see purple, a glowing round "claw" and a glowing X infront of Ash's pokemon, it suspiciously looks A LOT like Gliscor
 

STICKTOPIA

Well-Known Member
I agree with TheNewGuy with the fact that Ninjask, and Frostlass are not powerhouses because they have not been shown to be powerhouses. Look at the ninjask that hansen guy had back in hoenn, they were shown as weak and as back up to shadinja. Frostlass was shown to be quite weak when it could not even beat a glalie to save its kid from a poacher. The only poke that might be powerful among those 3 is gastrodon because if cynthia but she is the champ so it has to be strong. That is no indication that pauls will be strong. These pokemon do not make a bit of sense and do not match paul at all. The rest of pauls pokes have proven themselves other then weavile which is why it was replaced by drapion or aggron. This battle is crap now because of what they did to pauls team.
Wow where do I start? Ok 1st of all just b/c some 1s pokemon is weak doesn't mean that the same pokemon some 1 else has is also weak. It depends on how the trainer trains it. We don't even know how Paul's pokemon are and you're already judging them.... Paul wouldn't bring those pokemon if they were weak. Oh wow now you're saying that b/c Cynthia has Gastrodon Paul's own will be strong too.... I'm just gonna laugh when I see Ninjask and Froslass battle hard and not weak like you they are.
 

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
Explain to me why he keeps Weavile then? Cause that thing hasn't ever won a battle for him since we've seen it.

This kneejerk reaction against Pauls new team is just like back when some of you suggested that just because Weavile lost to Staraptor and Garchomp it should be kicked off Pauls team. Flip it over. You do realise it probably achieved something inconceivable for a dark-type, like defeating all of Maylene's Pokemon?

Froslass and Gastrodon and Ninjask have undoubtedly overcome Pokemon against whom they have big weaknesses in Pauls past battles, that we have not been shown by the writers. Pack it in.
 
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Akihide

Wannabe
Okay so let's break this down. I don't understand why people think Paul's new team is weak. Paul is using:

Ninjask
Why do people think this guy is going to suck? If memory serves, Brandon of the Battle Frontier has one. So they are definately not weak in the anime. Let's not forget that it has an awesome ability and can also baton pass boosts to the powerhouses in this team? It probably isn't there to get wins, just for strategy. Probably.

Gastrodon
So it's great that East sea is being shown for a start. But anyway, Cynthia has one of these which again shows that they can be strong Pokémon. Not only that, but it's a great type combination that Ash's team will probably struggle with (Apart from Torterra obviously).

Froslass
I actually missed the episode this was shown in so I don't know what they're like in the league. But I do find it peculiar that Paul has a Frosslass, doesn't seem to fit him. However a Glalie does seem like something Paul would use (Something Ash has).

Drapion
Aaron of the Elite 4 has one, and from the screenshots it looks like it's giving Ash a hard time. So in no way is this weak.

Aggron
Consistently shown to be strong throughout the Anime, not only that but Steven Stone also has one. So, this one isn't going to be that weak either, especially under Paul. More than likely it's been through Hoenn as well, due to it being used as a Lairon against Brandon (Assuming it's the same one).

Electivire
Throughout the entire saga I don't think it has lost a battle. Need I say more?

So yeah, this team definately won't be weak. Oh and it is Paul who is using them, there is no way they are making this easier for Ash. This is the same character who releases Pokemon if they aren't up to standard and is also the same character who's been through other regions. He knows what he's doing.


On another note. Gliscor.
I'm not sure, it's great that it's coming back. But I would have really loved to see one of Ash's reserves come in and show Paul just what kind of power he possesses. But whatever. Gliscor will probably have mastered battling in the air by now thanks to his training (It's also worth mentioning that time isn't measured in episodes, but in actual, you know, time. We don't know how long has passed since then, the writers don't want to show boring walks through a field for 20 minutes do they?). So Gliscor should prove a much more agile threat to Paul now.

And as much as I hate predictions of the battle, I'm gonna go give it a go.

DP 186
Ninjask vs Staraptor
Staraptor uses Brave Bird, Ninjask Substitutes.
Ninjask uses X-Scissor on Staraptor from behind the substitute.
Staraptor is recalled.

Ninjask vs Buizel
Buizel breaks the substitute with a Sonicboom.
Buizel follows up with Aqua Jet.
Ninjask uses baton pass before Buizel hits.

Drapion vs Buizel
Drapion attacks Buizel from behind with a Night Slash.
Buizel retaliates with Icey Aqua Jet. Drapion uses its boosted speed to dodge it.
Drapion hits Buizel hard with Cross Poison. Buizel is now poisoned.
Drapion goes to use Thunder Fang to finish Buizel.
Buizel is recalled.

Drapion vs Torterra
Drapion uses its speed to attack Torterra from all directions with Cross Poison. Torterra realises it can't dodge so it has to tank it.
Torterra uses Rock Climb to lift up both itself and Drapion.
Torterra tries a close up Leaf Storm. Drapion evades.
Drapion uses Hyper Beam and Torterra tries to take it. After a wait, Torterra faints.

Drapion vs Gliscor
Immediately Gliscor takes to the air.
Gliscor uses X-Scissor.

*End of Episode*

DP 187

Drapion vs Gliscor
Drapion tries to evade but Gliscor is too fast. Drapion is hit hard.
Drapion uses Night Slash but Gliscor glides up and evades.
Immediately after, Drapion uses Hyper Beam and hits Gliscor off guard.
Gliscor flies up high and comes down using Giga Impact.
Drapion tries to dodge, but the force of Giga Impact still manages to hit it.
Drapion faints.

Frosslass
Frosslass immediately sets up Hail.
Gliscor tries to get as high as he can, but Frosslass appears from out of the hail and hits Gliscor hard with Blizzard.
Gliscor uses X-Scissor, but misses.
Frosslass uses Blizzard.
Gliscor Faints.

Pikachu vs Frosslass
Frosslass engulfs Pikachu with Blizzard.
Pikachu fires off a Thunderbolt which follows where Blizzard is coming from and hits Frosslass hard.
Hail stops.
Pikachu hits Frosslass with Volt Tackle.
Frosslass faints.

Gastrodon vs Pikachu
Gastrodon uses Rain Dance.
Pikachu uses Iron Tail.
Gastrodon uses Muddy Water and deals massive damage to Pikachu.
Pikachu is recalled.

Gastrodon vs Buizel
YAY MOAR SWIFT SWIM XD
Buizel spams Ice Punch.
Gastrodon uses Earthquake. Buizel is looking weary.
Buizel uses Icey Aqua Jet. Gastrodon uses recover.
Gastrodon uses Body Slam. Buizel evades with speedeh weasel powers.
Buizel finishes with Ice Jet.
Gastrodon faints.
Buizel faints due to poison.

Ninjask vs Pikachu
Pikachu hits Ninjask with Quick Attack before Substitute is used.
Ninjask uses X-Scissor. Pikachu is even more worn out.
Pikachu uses Volt Tackle to finish Ninjask.
Ninjask faints. Pikachu is severly worn out.

Aggron vs Pikachu
Pikachu uses all of its remaining strength to use Volt Tackle.
Aggron gets hit hard.
Pikachu faints.

Aggron vs Staraptor
Staraptor uses Close Combat. Aggrons uses Stone Edge to make room between them and hit Staraptor for high damage.
Aggron finishes Staraptor with HEAD SMASH. RAWR.

Aggron vs InferscreentimehoggingplotstealingApe
Aggron goes on a Head Smashing rampage, but Infernape just dodges.
Aggron then hits Infernape in the side with an Iron Tail.
Infernape use Flame Wheel.
Aggron goes Oh ****.
Infernape finishes Aggron off with another Flame Wheel.
Aggron faints.

Electivire vs Infernape
Lots of hits are exchanged.
Infernape goes apeshit with blaze.
Infernape owns Electivire.

THE END.

DP 186. Battle begins about 10 minutes in.
DP 187. Battle lasts about 19 minutes.

Results.
Pikachu 2 wins
Buizel 1 win
Staraptor 0 wins
Gliscor 1 win
Torterra 0 wins
Infernape 2 wins

If my prediction is correct, then Torterra is really unlucky.


And I think that's the longest post I have EVER posted.
 

KibaLG8

Well-Known Member since the DP Series.
Okay so let's break this down. I don't understand why people think Paul's new team is weak. Paul is using:

Ninjask
Why do people think this guy is going to suck? If memory serves, Brandon of the Battle Frontier has one. So they are definately not weak in the anime. Let's not forget that it has an awesome ability and can also baton pass boosts to the powerhouses in this team? It probably isn't there to get wins, just for strategy. Probably.

Gastrodon
So it's great that East sea is being shown for a start. But anyway, Cynthia has one of these which again shows that they can be strong Pokémon. Not only that, but it's a great type combination that Ash's team will probably struggle with (Apart from Torterra obviously).

Froslass
I actually missed the episode this was shown in so I don't know what they're like in the league. But I do find it peculiar that Paul has a Frosslass, doesn't seem to fit him. However a Glalie does seem like something Paul would use (Something Ash has).

Drapion
Aaron of the Elite 4 has one, and from the screenshots it looks like it's giving Ash a hard time. So in no way is this weak.

Aggron
Consistently shown to be strong throughout the Anime, not only that but Steven Stone also has one. So, this one isn't going to be that weak either, especially under Paul. More than likely it's been through Hoenn as well, due to it being used as a Lairon against Brandon (Assuming it's the same one).

Electivire
Throughout the entire saga I don't think it has lost a battle. Need I say more?

So yeah, this team definately won't be weak. Oh and it is Paul who is using them, there is no way they are making this easier for Ash. This is the same character who releases Pokemon if they aren't up to standard and is also the same character who's been through other regions. He knows what he's doing.


On another note. Gliscor.
I'm not sure, it's great that it's coming back. But I would have really loved to see one of Ash's reserves come in and show Paul just what kind of power he possesses. But whatever. Gliscor will probably have mastered battling in the air by now thanks to his training (It's also worth mentioning that time isn't measured in episodes, but in actual, you know, time. We don't know how long has passed since then, the writers don't want to show boring walks through a field for 20 minutes do they?). So Gliscor should prove a much more agile threat to Paul now.

And as much as I hate predictions of the battle, I'm gonna go give it a go.

DP 186
Ninjask vs Staraptor
Staraptor uses Brave Bird, Ninjask Substitutes.
Ninjask uses X-Scissor on Staraptor from behind the substitute.
Staraptor is recalled.

Ninjask vs Buizel
Buizel breaks the substitute with a Sonicboom.
Buizel follows up with Aqua Jet.
Ninjask uses baton pass before Buizel hits.

Drapion vs Buizel
Drapion attacks Buizel from behind with a Night Slash.
Buizel retaliates with Icey Aqua Jet. Drapion uses its boosted speed to dodge it.
Drapion hits Buizel hard with Cross Poison. Buizel is now poisoned.
Drapion goes to use Thunder Fang to finish Buizel.
Buizel is recalled.

Drapion vs Torterra
Drapion uses its speed to attack Torterra from all directions with Cross Poison. Torterra realises it can't dodge so it has to tank it.
Torterra uses Rock Climb to lift up both itself and Drapion.
Torterra tries a close up Leaf Storm. Drapion evades.
Drapion uses Hyper Beam and Torterra tries to take it. After a wait, Torterra faints.

Drapion vs Gliscor
Immediately Gliscor takes to the air.
Gliscor uses X-Scissor.

*End of Episode*

DP 187

Drapion vs Gliscor
Drapion tries to evade but Gliscor is too fast. Drapion is hit hard.
Drapion uses Night Slash but Gliscor glides up and evades.
Immediately after, Drapion uses Hyper Beam and hits Gliscor off guard.
Gliscor flies up high and comes down using Giga Impact.
Drapion tries to dodge, but the force of Giga Impact still manages to hit it.
Drapion faints.

Frosslass
Frosslass immediately sets up Hail.
Gliscor tries to get as high as he can, but Frosslass appears from out of the hail and hits Gliscor hard with Blizzard.
Gliscor uses X-Scissor, but misses.
Frosslass uses Blizzard.
Gliscor Faints.

Pikachu vs Frosslass
Frosslass engulfs Pikachu with Blizzard.
Pikachu fires off a Thunderbolt which follows where Blizzard is coming from and hits Frosslass hard.
Hail stops.
Pikachu hits Frosslass with Volt Tackle.
Frosslass faints.

Gastrodon vs Pikachu
Gastrodon uses Rain Dance.
Pikachu uses Iron Tail.
Gastrodon uses Muddy Water and deals massive damage to Pikachu.
Pikachu is recalled.

Gastrodon vs Buizel
YAY MOAR SWIFT SWIM XD
Buizel spams Ice Punch.
Gastrodon uses Earthquake. Buizel is looking weary.
Buizel uses Icey Aqua Jet. Gastrodon uses recover.
Gastrodon uses Body Slam. Buizel evades with speedeh weasel powers.
Buizel finishes with Ice Jet.
Gastrodon faints.
Buizel faints due to poison.

Ninjask vs Pikachu
Pikachu hits Ninjask with Quick Attack before Substitute is used.
Ninjask uses X-Scissor. Pikachu is even more worn out.
Pikachu uses Volt Tackle to finish Ninjask.
Ninjask faints. Pikachu is severly worn out.

Aggron vs Pikachu
Pikachu uses all of its remaining strength to use Volt Tackle.
Aggron gets hit hard.
Pikachu faints.

Aggron vs Staraptor
Staraptor uses Close Combat. Aggrons uses Stone Edge to make room between them and hit Staraptor for high damage.
Aggron finishes Staraptor with HEAD SMASH. RAWR.

Aggron vs InferscreentimehoggingplotstealingApe
Aggron goes on a Head Smashing rampage, but Infernape just dodges.
Aggron then hits Infernape in the side with an Iron Tail.
Infernape use Flame Wheel.
Aggron goes Oh ****.
Infernape finishes Aggron off with another Flame Wheel.
Aggron faints.

Electivire vs Infernape
Lots of hits are exchanged.
Infernape goes apeshit with blaze.
Infernape owns Electivire.

THE END.

DP 186. Battle begins about 10 minutes in.
DP 187. Battle lasts about 19 minutes.

Results.
Pikachu 2 wins
Buizel 1 win
Staraptor 0 wins
Gliscor 1 win
Torterra 0 wins
Infernape 2 wins

If my prediction is correct, then Torterra is really unlucky.


And I think that's the longest post I have EVER posted.

That's stupid. Torterra should get at least a win, not going to Infernape. Staraptor shouldn't get a win, so I agree there, while Buizel and Gliscor should get 1.... Pikachu deserves 2 considering its overall usage in Sinnoh, while Torterra gets 1 win.
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
It's not "stupid," it's a guess. And frankly, I'd put money on Blazefernape getting two wins as well. At the expense of one or two other team mates; no matter how much we'd like for Torterra and Buizel to get the redemption they deserve, Pikachu, Gliscor, and Infernape have got the spotlight here.
 

Akihide

Wannabe
That's stupid. Torterra should get at least a win, not going to Infernape. Staraptor shouldn't get a win, so I agree there, while Buizel and Gliscor should get 1.... Pikachu deserves 2 considering its overall usage in Sinnoh, while Torterra gets 1 win.

As much as I want Torterra to get a win, I really don't see it happening. I see it getting some kind of redemption in the Semi-final though,
 

NES

Flip me to the side!
I'm surprised that Gliscor will return, i guess that will make some people around here smile, since it will mostly be determinant for Ash to win. I think Gliscor and Infernape will get the spotlight.
 

talala

Well-Known Member
large battle plan fails

why does staraptor not battle gastrodon?
and how does the battle seem to be largely in Ash's favor until drapion gets sent out when ninjask seems to own staraptor and run away from buizel?
 

DANdotW

Previously Iota
Drapion vs Gliscor
Immediately Gliscor takes to the air.
Gliscor uses X-Scissor.

*End of Episode*

THe only problem with that is that DP187 is confirmed to be when Drapion causes havoc on Ash's team, and during DP186, Ash dominates the scoreboard.

I think the speculation has to be based around confirmed knowledge, otherwise it's not speculation, it's just fanfiction.

Drapion doesn't make its streak until the second part, and it's either the end of DP186 that the artistic screen of Drapion/Gliscor happens, or the end of DP187, but either way, there won't be as much recalling as you've got.

If the info hadn't already come out, however, I'd say yours was pretty savvy. I enjoyed reading it.

Iota
 

SQUIRTLETamer08

lower shiny ratio!
That's stupid. Torterra should get at least a win, not going to Infernape. Staraptor shouldn't get a win, so I agree there, while Buizel and Gliscor should get 1.... Pikachu deserves 2 considering its overall usage in Sinnoh, while Torterra gets 1 win.

Yes there are a lot of issues with that post. Just because someone in the anime had a strong pokemon does not mean another trainer's pokemon will have the same power level.

Also it was stated Ash was beating Paul pretty bad until Drapion showed up, so Ash would be up probably 2-0. My bets are Buizel is a part of the early lead, as he is shown losing to Drapion. So he could knock out an early pokemon of Paul's but then get tossed around like a rag doll against Drapion. And Torterra really needs a win. Give him another one of those early wins.
 

Akihide

Wannabe
THe only problem with that is that DP187 is confirmed to be when Drapion causes havoc on Ash's team, and during DP186, Ash dominates the scoreboard.

I think the speculation has to be based around confirmed knowledge, otherwise it's not speculation, it's just fanfiction.

Drapion doesn't make its streak until the second part, and it's either the end of DP186 that the artistic screen of Drapion/Gliscor happens, or the end of DP187, but either way, there won't be as much recalling as you've got.

If the info hadn't already come out, however, I'd say yours was pretty savvy. I enjoyed reading it.

Iota

I actually only really knew of the teams being used. I wasn't aware of the other information.

Oh well. Thanks anyway.

I'm still thinking it's going to be a 1-0 victory to Ash with Ape being his last Pokemon. With the wins being about the same.
 
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