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DP Arc End revealed?

Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
Silver_Seoul said:
I never degraded the Sinnoh Saga? If anything I praised it for how much better it was than the previous sagas, but I was stating that doesn't mean I hate all previous sagas.
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Ok my mistake,

TheNewGuy said:
wow, thunderblade. You are so obsessed with making Charizard look awful XD

You'd think after I comprehensively showed you last time how wrong you were you'd let up.

Though of course, DP > all. Storytelling wise it's just been a better arc than anything that's come before. Better rivals, Pokemon handled better, evolutions. Gliscor returning was all the proof I needed that the writers now have faith in their audience, faith that we won't forget about Ash's random releases anymore. So they teased us by temporarily releasing the weakest Pokemon on his team only for him to come back (presumably) stronger. I think Ambipom's release is the sole black spot on the saga, that and not doing enough with Brock maybe. Otherwise, this is more or less as good as it gets.
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He is not making him look awful, he is simply suggesting that Charizard isn't as great as certain people have pictured him to be, imo..yes he is a decent team memeber for Ash, but he is certainly not the best.
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Thunderblade thinks Charizard is at Torkoal's level XFD
If that's not underrating/trying to make it look awful, I don't know what is.

Anyway, I have an issue with your post. If Charizard is not the best, who is? This is what I want to know. There aren't many viable candidates. Pikachu? Snorlax?

Who else have the writers specifically tailored to be his strongest Pokemon through quotes and battles? Who has a win-loss record that can even compare? How can you call Charizard "decent"? What are Ash's other Pokemon then, complete dross?

It's the cool thing to be "considered", to try and play down Charizard's power. But quite honestly...no. Nothing comes close.
 
Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
TheNewGuy said:
Thunderblade thinks Charizard is at Torkoal's level XFD
If that's not underrating/trying to make it look awful, I don't know what is.

Anyway, I have an issue with your post. If Charizard is not the best, who is? This is what I want to know. There aren't many viable candidates. Pikachu? Snorlax?

Who else have the writers specifically tailored to be his strongest Pokemon through quotes and battles? Who has a win-loss record that can even compare? How can you call Charizard "decent"? What are Ash's other Pokemon then, complete dross?

It's the cool thing to be "considered", to try and play down Charizard's power. But quite honestly...no. Nothing comes close.
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I never said anything about charizard not beng the strongest, i actually do believe he was the strongest in his team as evident in various episodes.

When I say he is not the best, i was reffering him as a team member, and it would be foolish to suggest he is not one of ash's strongest pokemon, because he is and i agree with you on that one.
And when you say any viable candidates..yeah snorlax and pikachu aren't far off, but no in terms of power and ability charizard easily suprasses ash's team, but that doesnt mean he is a better team member.

edit: When did he say anything about torkoal, i think i missed it :/
 
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TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
So he's the strongest, but not the best. Yes, you made that perfectly clear and that is in no way whatsoever an ambiguous comment.

My argument IS that he is the strongest. I don't know what a Pokemon needs to be to be the "best" by your reckoning, but if it doesn't have anything to do with his "strength" then your comment is irrelevant. I was only talking about strength, none of these other factors that you think come into play.
 
S

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
Lol Charizard. For all I care he can mate with Charla and stay there for all eternity. He's too hyped. Yes he's one of Ash's strongest, but it's not like he can't win a major battle without him.
 
Eternal Darkness

Eternal Darkness

Eternal Evil
Silver_Seoul said:
Lol Charizard. For all I care he can mate with Charla and stay there for all eternity. He's too hyped. Yes he's one of Ash's strongest, but it's not like he can't win a major battle without him.
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But other Pokemon are getting there...

Infernape Anyone?
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Silver_Seoul said:
Lol Charizard. For all I care he can mate with Charla and stay there for all eternity. He's too hyped. Yes he's one of Ash's strongest, but it's not like he can't win a major battle without him.
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Well yeah, this is fair enough. Ash has plenty of strong Pokemon now and he doesn't really need Charizard. But he is the strongest one he has right now.
 
Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
TheNewGuy said:
So he's the strongest, but not the best. Yes, you made that perfectly clear and that is in no way whatsoever an ambiguous comment.

My argument IS that he is the strongest. I don't know what a Pokemon needs to be to be the "best" by your reckoning, but if it doesn't have anything to do with his "strength" then your comment is irrelevant. I was only talking about strength, none of these other factors that you think come into play.
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Can you read?..I never have once stated that charizard is not strong, my point at the beggining and the point im making now is still the same..Charizard is NOT the BEST TEAM MEMBER!
That has NOTHING to do with how powerful he is, it is related to his chemistry with other pokemon that ash has, his ability to perform with other pokemon and other factors that you should be able to work out for yourself.
And OK in terms of his power and strength, there are plenty of strong pokemon that ash can rely on..infernape? sceptile? snorlax? ever heard of these pokemon? AND YES! i am saying that these pokemon could quite easily be more useful than charizard, and NO that DOES NOT mean he isnt strong or isnt the strongest pokemon that ash HAS!..but he is over-rated, accept it and stop moaning over charizard you idiot.
 
D

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
Himaro Aurora said:
he is simply suggesting that Charizard isn't as great as certain people have pictured him to be, imo..yes he is a decent team memeber for Ash, but he is certainly not the best.
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I shouldnt be wading into this because it deviates off-topic from the OPs thread, but its that word that Charizard critics use to describe the writer's portrayal of Charizard: 'over-rated.'

Something can only be overrated when more than half those who give opinion support it above all it's contemporaries. Looking on the forums, I cant find a clear 'more than half' split going on. Besides, something like Charizard can only be overrated also when it's contemporaries are of a far higher obvious standard. Are Sceptile, Swellow, Snorlax (all the S's), Corphish etc clearly any better than Charizard?

Even fans say Charizard and Pikachu have hard-fight anyway, but they give the opinion that out of what Ash has, out of the bunch he has had since the writers created him, Charizard is unique in that after training with Ash, as a fully evolved Poke, it continues serious training elsewhere. I dont see the problem with then saying that the writers' portrayal of Zard has legitimate claim to be No1?

EDIT: MMm, wouldnt mind if the DP arc ended this way......Ash and Gary arguing in Pallet about who is No1 Pokemon in the roster ;)
 
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TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Can you read?..I never have once stated that charizard is not strong, my point at the beggining and the point im making now is still the same..Charizard is NOT the BEST TEAM MEMBER!
That has NOTHING to do with how powerful he is, it is related to his chemistry with other pokemon that ash has, his ability to perform with other pokemon and other factors that you should be able to work out for yourself.
And OK in terms of his power and strength, there are plenty of strong pokemon that ash can rely on..infernape? sceptile? snorlax? ever heard of these pokemon? AND YES! i am saying that these pokemon could quite easily be more useful than charizard, and NO that DOES NOT mean he isnt strong or isnt the strongest pokemon that ash HAS!..but he is over-rated, accept it and stop moaning over charizard you idiot.
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...But that's what I'm saying. I don't GIVE a crap whether you think he's the best "team member" or not. Completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. My argument is only that he is strongest, has the best win-loss record, and is Ash's most effective weapon.

You basically came in with an irrelevant comment and I called you out on its irrelevance. That is all.

(btw, how is Charizard overrated if you accept that he is the strongest Pokemon he has?)
 
Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
TheNewGuy said:
...But that's what I'm saying. I don't GIVE a crap whether you think he's the best "team member" or not. Completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. My argument is only that he is strongest, has the best win-loss record, and is Ash's most effective weapon.

You basically came in with an irrelevant comment and I called you out on its irrelevance. That is all.

(btw, how is Charizard overrated if you accept that he is the strongest Pokemon he has?)
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Irrelevant? I stated my opinion that charizard is not the best team member, and you replied saying how he isnt the best..so therefore it is relevant that i am constantly referring to "team member"..however when you say he is the strongest, i agree completely..you seem to always come back to this point and ive always said he is ash's strongest pokemon =D
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
It's not relevant. At all.

I was talking about Charizard's strength and you bought a completely unrelated point about his value to a team. That's like the definition of "irrelevance".

You are the one that came in and changed the subject.
 
L

luckyumbreon

DragonExtraordinaire
What do you mean by how well he works? Charizard has great chemistry with Bulbasaur Squirtle and Pikachu as seen in Gathering the Gang of Four. Charizard doesn't have the opportunity to "bond" with the new pokemon because he's in the Valley.

I would like to say that Bulbasaur and Squirtle should be on that list of strong pokemon but not Kingler and Corphish. Have you seen these pokemon in action compared to Squirtle. Case Closed. For Bulbasaur, i know it's overshadowed by Torterra and Sceptile, but compared to a ton of his other pokemon, the two still own.

Why do i say this, because against Brandon when Ash's almighty Charizard fell in the first minute of battling, these two came to help Ash out and give him the Brave Symbol!! People would be adding them to the list if they could evolve i bet you. Almost all the pokemon you mentioned have fully evolved...exxcept Corphish and Pikachu
 
Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
TheNewGuy said:
It's not relevant. At all.

I was talking about Charizard's strength and you bought a completely unrelated point about his value to a team. That's like the definition of "irrelevance".

You are the one that came in and changed the subject.
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Lmao this can go on all day, but I seriously am not interested, however I would like to point that I only replied to you saying that thunderblade isnt saying that charizard is "awful" & I do not think Zard is the "best" in ash's team, you asked WHY HE ISNT THE BEST? & I explained why, which incidentally was based on team skills, I never mentioned anything about power or team skill until you asked me to explain my point, i could say the same thing about you..that your stating irrelevant point about power when the debate was about whether thunderblade12 was saying that charizard is awful or not, Enough said.
 
Himaro Aurora

Himaro Aurora

Ocean Warrior
luckyumbreon said:
What do you mean by how well he works? Charizard has great chemistry with Bulbasaur Squirtle and Pikachu as seen in Gathering the Gang of Four. Charizard doesn't have the opportunity to "bond" with the new pokemon because he's in the Valley.

I would like to say that Bulbasaur and Squirtle should be on that list of strong pokemon but not Kingler and Corphish. Have you seen these pokemon in action compared to Squirtle. Case Closed. For Bulbasaur, i know it's overshadowed by Torterra and Sceptile, but compared to a ton of his other pokemon, the two still own.

Why do i say this, because against Brandon when Ash's almighty Charizard fell in the first minute of battling, these two came to help Ash out and give him the Brave Symbol!! People would be adding them to the list if they could evolve i bet you. Almost all the pokemon you mentioned have fully evolved...exxcept Corphish and Pikachu
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Yes he has great chemistry at that point but before hand his value to the team & his chemistry was poor e.g his disobedience of ash cost ash his battle againt richtie in the indigo league, lack of teamwork & understanding with pikachu in a gym match in the orange islands, reluctance to show any leadership skills/understanding with other pokemon ash had or tracy's syther ..on the other hand you have bulbasaur who is a calming influence & in many episodes has been shown to stop fights etc etc
whilst my point has many flaws, it shows that ash has better team pokemon, ofcourse charizard has improved vastly since, but i still believe ash has pokemon that have better team skills..just my opinion! =D
Edit: & thanks i totally agree on your list of strong pokemon, charizard "maybe" ash's strongest pokemon, but he does not sorely rely on him as he has many other pokemon of high pedigree such as snorlax, sceptile, infernape, pikachu..the list goes on..xD
 
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F

flipjeff1313

Active Member
Oh my... Can we just all leave Charizard alone? He left to mate with the female 'Zard to avoid this kind of attention. ;P
 
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