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DP170 & 171 - Bertha and Togekiss

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WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
when i saw the preview it looked like ash was wining against bertha besides that i dont know how bertha is going to turn it around. is the writers giving ash his first victory against an elite 4??? hopefully!!

One Word: Ice Fang
 

ijea4444

Well-Known Member
We've seen Iron Head many times with no need to train anything. Iron Tail,Ice Punch, Energy Ball, Brave Bird, and Aerial Ace were all "trained for" immediately after seeing the move. I don't see Torterra learning Iron Head.
 

streetlightdsb

Uni hiatus
Ah, I haven't actually seen Plusle/Minun episode yet. Forgive me. You kind of reinforced my point there thunderblade, with the Buizel vs Infernape thing. What I meant, is while Pokemon may not forget moves, they may just stick to 4 moves in one battle. I doubt Buizel forgot Water Pulse as well, but maybe in it's next battle it won't use Sonicboom. It won't have forgotten it, it just will stick to using four moves in a battle. I agree about the obsolete thing. For example, now Torterra has Leaf Storm, I don't see it using Razor Leaf again.
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
Buizel didn't last very long in that battle, so who knows? -Is still annoyed that Ash used Ice Punch against a FIRE type specialist-
 

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
The 4 move thing is holding true lately as of AG. Kinda get upset when people discredit with the simple retort as " This is the anime, there are no limits on the amount of moves" when that is totally isn't true. If that were the case, then a Pokemon should be able to use 30+ or so moves in one battle.

Ever since Buizel has learned Ice Punch, we have neither seen high or low of Water Pulse. So I'm betting Ash isn't planning on using the move ever again.

When Staraptor evolved, it learned Close Combat, and we no longer saw Wing Attack.

Now we have Torterra, who learned Leaf Storm upon evolving. While have not seen Razor Leaf at all.

So in a sense, the 4 move rule does apply to Ash's Pokemon now. As well as Dawn's. For you to say there is no limit on attack is like saying a Pokemon is allowed to use every attack it has ever learned.
 
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ijea4444

Well-Known Member
The 4 move thing is holding true lately as of AG. Kinda get upset when people discredit with the simple retort as " This is the anime, there are no limits on the amount of moves" when that is totally isn't true. If that were the case, then a Pokemon should be able to use 30+ or so moves in one battle.

Ever since Buizel has learned Ice Punch, we have neither seen high or low of Water Pulse. So I'm betting Ash isn't planning on using the move ever again.

When Staraptor evolved, it learned Close Combat, and we no longer saw Wing Attack.

Now we have Torterra, who learned Leaf Storm upon evolving. While have not seen Razor Leaf at all.

So in a sense, the 4 move rule does apply to Ash's Pokemon now. As well as Dawn's. For you to say there is no limit on attack is like saying a Pokemon is allowed to use every attack it has ever learned.

Thats what I've always been saying. COTD/Cameos are the only time where 4+ moves are acceptable and except for slight exceptions Main Characters are off limits. I think its because people kept noticing that MC's pokemon especially that 4+ moves isn't possible in the game.

And its been a trend that as MC's pokemon learn new moves, old ones miraculously disappear. The most prominent example I can remember is pikachu which primarily used Thundershock, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Quick attack. Upon learning Iron Tail, Thundershock was no longer seen, and upon learning Volt Tackle, Thunder stopped(although it wasn't a commonly used move to begin with really).
 

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
Thats what I've always been saying. COTD/Cameos are the only time where 4+ moves are acceptable and except for slight exceptions Main Characters are off limits. I think its because people kept noticing that MC's pokemon especially that 4+ moves isn't possible in the game.

And its been a trend that as MC's pokemon learn new moves, old ones miraculously disappear. The most prominent example I can remember is pikachu which primarily used Thundershock, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Quick attack. Upon learning Iron Tail, Thundershock was no longer seen, and upon learning Volt Tackle, Thunder stopped(although it wasn't a commonly used move to begin with really).

It was obvious with Pikachu, yet people still use that excuse. When was the last time we heard Ash order Thundershock or Agility from Pikachu? Not since Johto.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I gotta agree with WaterPokes. Apparently Ursula's Plusle and Minun used a total of six moves during Dawn's last contest. Charge, Charge Beam, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Discharge.

Actually they didn't they only used 4 (look at the big anime move catalog) besides I think people were confused. The so called Charge was helping hand and spark combined (prior to attacking with spark). There was no discharge only charge beam.

It's very rare to see something with more than 4 moves, is it possible, obviously, but is it likely to happen, no.

Ash's Torterra assuming razor leaf was replaced by leaf storm (likely given the circumstances it learned leaf storm in), and also has rock climb, and energy ball. There is one move for a nice new attack, replacing bite, or synthesis.
 

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
When was the last time Ash ordered Bite? Like almost 50 episode ago. As far as I know, Grotle's moveset after learning Rock Climb was Synthesis, Razor Leaf, Rock Climb, and Energy Ball.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
When was the last time Ash ordered Bite? Like almost 50 episode ago. As far as I know, Grotle's moveset after learning Rock Climb was Synthesis, Razor Leaf, Rock Climb, and Energy Ball.

True I guess Rock Climb replaced bite, but I just wasn't sure since we haven't seen Synthesis except maybe back in the Palmer battle (which means since then Grotle hasn't used 4 moves, only using 3 at a time).
 

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
Well, we didn't see Grotle too much after the Palmer battle. But in that battle we did see all 4 of its moves. Grotle's next actual battle after that was the training episode with Cyndaquil.

But Synthesis has always been there. Ash usually relies on it alot when it was in a jam.
 

BM14murph

Master Collector
Guys we all know that pokemon in the anime can have more than 4 moves at one time look at snorlax and most recently Ursula's Plusle and Minun....i believe they had 5 or 6 moves used and ordered

Yes i know thee writers try to keep it to the 4 moves now but at this stage Torterra should be using 5 moves (i know he knows more)

Leaf Storm
Razor Leaf
Rock Climb
Energy Ball
Synthesis

The one we haven't seen as recently as the others is synthesis but i doubt that move's going to get neglected as it'll be a good asset of a move in upcomng battles

I think Razor Leaf is going to be dropped now seeing as how it's such a similar move to Leaf Storm....so with that in mind IMO Torterra's Moves are


On a side note however Buizel seems to be using 5 moves really.....well i don't know about water pulse haven't seen dat one for a while
Leaf Storm
Rock Climb
Synthesis
Energy Ball
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO
Guys we all know that pokemon in the anime can have more than 4 moves at one time look at snorlax and most recently Ursula's Plusle and Minun....i believe they had 5 or 6 moves used and ordered
I believe they were ordered to jump, not to use Charge before dodging Mamoswine and Cyndaquil or making Dawn da sparkly. And I believe they just displayed their electricity when they were released and wiggled their tails, not used Discharge. Anyways, dub will cover this issue eventually.

But I do believe too they don't forget it, they just don't use it anymore, until writers want it.
Yes i know thee writers try to keep it to the 4 moves now but at this stage Torterra should be using 5 moves (i know he knows more)

Leaf Storm
Razor Leaf
Rock Climb
Energy Ball
Synthesis

The one we haven't seen as recently as the others is synthesis but i doubt that move's going to get neglected as it'll be a good asset of a move in upcomng battles

I think Razor Leaf is going to be dropped now seeing as how it's such a similar move to Leaf Storm....so with that in mind IMO Torterra's Moves are


On a side note however Buizel seems to be using 5 moves really.....well i don't know about water pulse haven't seen dat one for a while
Leaf Storm
Rock Climb
Synthesis
Energy Ball

I agree Synthesis won't go. Not only it is a good move(even though gave Honchkrow the upper hand in their battle) also as Sceptile lover said before all of Ash's turtles knew a defensive move.

I still wonder if Razor Leaf is going to go as writers love using that mve however as you said Leaf Storm is like Razor Leaf so I don't think there will be much trouble.
Hikari thank you for giving me this opertunity please accept this togepi and take care of it.
OK, this was funny. I believe Salvia will give Togekiss so it can participate in contests. I will laugh so hard though if this episode just makes Dawn want to catch a Togekiss for herself and we see a random wild one during the ending of the episode and Dawn catches that one.

Edit: It seems that we're still with Salvia in DP172: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=1458757&postcount=1
So, yeah.
 
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dawn hater

Well-Known Member
Guys we all know that pokemon in the anime can have more than 4 moves at one time look at snorlax and most recently Ursula's Plusle and Minun....i believe they had 5 or 6 moves used and ordered

Dman_Dustin already stated that Ursula's Rodents used four move each in the battle.
Main Character's Pokemon mostly don't use more than 4 moves except for few exception like that of Snorlax. And I also want to admit that I think Water Pulse is gone cause writers can't deal with its secondary effect. They could never show Ash taking advantage of a confused foe. It will be more Paul'ish(no pun intended) as Paul took advantage of Chimchar when it flinched in battle against Ursaring under the effect of Secret Power. And considering Torterra's case, it is in a state where all of its move are useful. They can't make it forget Leaf Storm as it is new, Rock Climb provide it with speed, Synthesis for defensive purposes and Energy Ball for power up. I guess learning a new move now won't be of much use cause in that case it would have to get rid of a older move.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
And I also want to admit that I think Water Pulse is gone cause writers can't deal with its secondary effect. They could never show Ash taking advantage of a confused foe. It will be more Paul'ish(no pun intended) as Paul took advantage of Chimchar when it flinched in battle against Ursaring under the effect of Secret Power.

You have a good point. While Ash has taken advantage of status inflictions before (paralysis I believe when Pikachu's static kicked in), confusion is a little different, and may be too much for Ash to deal with. After all attacking a Pokemon while it's banging it's head against the floor or maybe a pillar (similar to Ash's Grovyle in Juan's gym battle) could be wrong in Ash's eyes. Of course Ash could ignore it since it is a battle, but I don't remember a case where Ash's Pokemon (or his partner's Pokemon in case of a tag battle) confused his opponent's Pokemon and Ash continued to battle.

However as I said when Buizel used four moves against Flint's Infernape and none of them were water pulse, I would be very disappointed if water pulse is never used a again because it makes it learning it against Maylene pointless. I mean sure maybe in the future after the Sinnoh League it could learn a move to replace water pulse, but water pulse was/is barely used and so it kind of seems pointless for Buizel to learn it. Especially if it was only take out a couple of gym leader's Pokemon.
 

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
And how many battles has Buizel had since learning Ice Punch? Two. That doesn't prove anything.

And how long has it been since we saw the move Water Pulse? The full battle with Paul is my guess. If it was worth keeping, then the writers would have made sure that Buizel would use it everytime it appeared such as Pikachu's Thunderbolt or Grotle's Razor Leaf. The more times a move is used upon learning it, the more you can expect that it still knows it. Buizel rarely uses Water Pulse, But it always uses Aqua Jet or Water Gun whenever its seen. Since learning Ice Punch, it has been seen using it in every battle its been in so far.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
And how long has it been since we saw the move? The full battle with Paul is my guess

The question then becomes how many times has Ash used Buizel since the full battle in actual knockout battles?

None, because ignoring the "filler" battles with Team Rocket, or Team Rocket-esque people, Ash has not used Buizel at all, all the way up to Buizel learning ice punch.

Here's Buizel's appearance based on the animedex.

DP132- Full Battle part two (used water Pulse)
DP133- Recovering along with Ash's other Pokemon
DP135- Helped against Pokemon thieves
DP145- Tried to help Ash get Gible
DP159- Buizel learned Ice Punch

Yeah not a whole lot there.
 
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