Dracaena

[BGP_]

Bye those that left
Anyways, seems like people are starting to hit some strides in OU. Guess we can look into setting up an OU tourney or two, and then start planning for other things. I highly encourage everyone to try the OU metagame out, it will greatly make gen VI a more enjoyable experience for us if we can participate again. I know Gen V meta was bs but this one can't be as bad amirite?! Seems like most people like it more anyways. So starting building some teams on PS and PO and get ready cuz we'll prob start doing some OU stuff soon, plus the rank up stuff will greatly need a lot of participation in battling most likely for many of you. We can always do a bigger OU tourney, and then do quick 8 person tourneys or something on a more regular basis to get people battling more, more often. Any ideas are appreciated too!

 

[Astral Shadow]

Do OU and maybe LC tournies, the other tiers will have to wait awhile.

 

[Purple_BlitzXD]

It regrets me to say that i am Leaving Dracena. It just dosent hold the same atmosphere as Seasoul. I shall still be around the xat and the forums

Sad to say I am leaving as well. I'v been here a long time and I just feel the need for a change. I'll visit the xat time to time. Anyway, I'll see you guys later.

Byiiieeee D: May luck be with you wherever you go. ^^

 

[KatoZee]

Sorry new to competitive battling but what's an ou metagame?

 

[rovert]

Sorry new to competitive battling but what's an ou metagame?

It's a battle format smogon (who has absolutely nothing to do with gamefreak or the creators of pokemon) created to make battles "fair." It limits you to specific pokemon because others have been deemed too weak while others have been banned because they are too powerful. Aka a bunch of crap created by people to fix something that wasn't broken that everyone and his/her brother uses and flips out if people don't want to use for whatever reason.

 

[BGP_]

TMK wherever you are we need to talk!!!
Oh hi cuties

Edit: Updated news thing, basically updated the spreadsheet link so you have the cleaner, published look and added a friend safari thing to the additional info tab. If you need anything added tell me, I can only get so much info myself!

 

[KatoZee]

Wait so to play pokemon against other people we must subject ourselves to only using pokemon from a list constructed by people whom have no involvement with the offical chaps?

Why exactly? Did this all start because someone got upset losing with his pokemon so he banned all the ones that could beat him and thus the tier selection was born?

So where does one find out which is banned then?

 

[Astral Shadow]

It's a battle format smogon (who has absolutely nothing to do with gamefreak or the creators of pokemon) created to make battles "fair." It limits you to specific pokemon because others have been deemed too weak while others have been banned because they are too powerful. Aka a bunch of crap created by people to fix something that wasn't broken that everyone and his/her brother uses and flips out if people don't want to use for whatever reason.

You're really just hater and slightly ignorant of Smogon. They try and make the metagame more balanced, no one else has done of a "good" job as them. Besides there's nothing wrong with using lower than OU mons in higher tiers, if you can make it work.

Wait so to play pokemon against other people we must subject ourselves to only using pokemon from a list constructed by people whom have no involvement with the offical chaps?

Why exactly? Did this all start because someone got upset losing with his pokemon so he banned all the ones that could beat him and thus the tier selection was born?

So where does one find out which is banned then?

Gamefreak doesn't know how to regulate their own competitive game. They don't play it enough or maybe even at all lol.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...ier-List-amp-Standard-Rules-Discussion-Thread Will update with new stuff every now and then.

 

[BGP_]

Gamefreak doesn't know how to regulate their own competitive game. They don't play it enough or maybe even at all lol.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...ier-List-amp-Standard-Rules-Discussion-Thread Will update with new stuff every now and then.

Gamefreak only cares about VGC, so yeah gotta make another metagame for everyone's favorite battle type!

 

[rovert]

You're really just hater and slightly ignorant of Smogon. They try and make the metagame more balanced, no one else has done of a "good" job as them. Besides there's nothing wrong with using lower than OU mons in higher tiers, if you can make it work.

Gamefreak doesn't know how to regulate their own competitive game. They don't play it enough or maybe even at all lol.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...ier-List-amp-Standard-Rules-Discussion-Thread Will update with new stuff every now and then.

I might be a hater, but if gamefreak really wanted certain pokemon to not be used, they would've either not created them, done something differently with moves/stats, or they would have banned them for vgc. It shouldn't be up to someone else to decide what is fair to use and what isn't. If I feel like using a mega gengar, I should be able to do so (although I do concede there are some pokemon which are really cheap to use as they are too powerful, that should be up to the parties involved in the battle, not a random group of people who aren't affiliated with anyone battling nor the creators of the game).

Also, we went to Mc Donalds for dinner tonight as we went to my grandmother's house, and we ended up winning a download of Ms. Splosion Man. We don't have a 360, but if someone with one does and is interested, PM me or talk to me on the xat.

 

[Astral Shadow]

I might be a hater, but if gamefreak really wanted certain pokemon to not be used, they would've either not created them, done something differently with moves/stats, or they would have banned them for vgc. It shouldn't be up to someone else to decide what is fair to use and what isn't. If I feel like using a mega gengar, I should be able to do so (although I do concede there are some pokemon which are really cheap to use as they are too powerful, that should be up to the parties involved in the battle, not a random group of people who aren't affiliated with anyone battling nor the creators of the game).

Also, we went to Mc Donalds for dinner tonight as we went to my grandmother's house, and we ended up winning a download of Ms. Splosion Man. We don't have a 360, but if someone with one does and is interested, PM me or talk to me on the xat.

Just no lol. Gamefreak does what they want when they create Pokemon. They don't take into account stuff that could be broken(Mega Gengar, Blaziken, and Kangaskhan are good examples). And the VGC metagame is nothing like OU, ask Bgp.

 

[BGP_]

The trading business with pokebank continues! Getting a lot of the unobtainable mons besides legends, so might be able to hook people up.

 

[Astral Shadow]

Poke Bank better happen tomorrow gdi.

Also finally got my X mega stones moved over to Y.

 

[Kavatika]

I got lbw today, havent been able to play it much, but im loving it so far!

 

[NeohopeSTF]

Managed to get Phione from GTS this morning. Closest thing to a Pokebank "legendary" I have atm.

 

[RifleAvenger]

Back from vacation. Time to see what's legit in all the trades I did in 4th and 5th gen.

@Rovert, don't spew your irrational hatred of Smogon at new players asking questions. It doesn't reflect well on you or on us; we're in the competitive pokemon subforum after all.

@Kato: Tiers, except Ubers, do not restrict what pokemon you can use in the OU meta. They just tell you which pokemon are used the most, which often correlates with strength. For example, Shuckle is in the Never Used tier, but in the past I've ran it on Over Used teams. Ubers is where pokemon deemed too powerful (Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, etc.) or too harmful to a good, competitive game (Mega-Gengar) wind up. There are people who actually play Ubers as well, if you hate restrictions!

There are tiers "below" OU, containing pokemon not used as often (They are Borderline, Under Used, Borderline 2, Rarely Used, Borderline 3, Never used). This is often because people perceive them as weaker; however, being placed in one of these tiers is not "bad" at all! You're still free to use them in higher tiers like OU if you want, and you can play UU/RU/NU meta with people, in which all OU/higher tier pokemon are banned. This means you can play in games where your favorite low tier pokemon might be the top of the pack, without some very strong OU mon countering it at every turn!

Borderline tiers function much like ubers, banning pokemon from the usage based tiers that are deemed too powerful for that tier, but not popular enough to be OU.

Certain things are banned altogether in Smogon's rules, like evasion boosting moves, since they altogether reduce gameplay to dice-rolls. There is also "sleep clause," which states that you cannot put more than 1 of your foe's pokemon to sleep at a time. This is because sleep is a VERY powerful status condition. Note that Nintendo enforced sleep clause for VGC as well for years. Self-inflicted sleep from moves like rest will not prevent you from sleeping another pokemon.

 

[rovert]

Back from vacation. Time to see what's legit in all the trades I did in 4th and 5th gen.

@Rovert, don't spew your irrational hatred of Smogon at new players asking questions. It doesn't reflect well on you or on us; we're in the competitive pokemon subforum after all.

@Kato: Tiers, except Ubers, do not restrict what pokemon you can use in the OU meta. They just tell you which pokemon are used the most, which often correlates with strength. For example, Shuckle is in the Never Used tier, but in the past I've ran it on Over Used teams. Ubers is where pokemon deemed too powerful (Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, etc.) or too harmful to a good, competitive game (Mega-Gengar) wind up. There are people who actually play Ubers as well, if you hate restrictions!

There are tiers "below" OU, containing pokemon not used as often (They are Borderline, Under Used, Borderline 2, Rarely Used, Borderline 3, Never used). This is often because people perceive them as weaker; however, being placed in one of these tiers is not "bad" at all! You're still free to use them in higher tiers like OU if you want, and you can play UU/RU/NU meta with people, in which all OU/higher tier pokemon are banned. This means you can play in games where your favorite low tier pokemon might be the top of the pack, without some very strong OU mon countering it at every turn!

Borderline tiers function much like ubers, banning pokemon from the usage based tiers that are deemed too powerful for that tier, but not popular enough to be OU.

Certain things are banned altogether in Smogon's rules, like evasion boosting moves, since they altogether reduce gameplay to dice-rolls. There is also "sleep clause," which states that you cannot put more than 1 of your foe's pokemon to sleep at a time. This is because sleep is a VERY powerful status condition. Note that Nintendo enforced sleep clause for VGC as well for years. Self-inflicted sleep from moves like rest will not prevent you from sleeping another pokemon.

Competitive Pokemon by no means is limited to smogon. I also made it clear it is MY opinion, thus does not effect the views of the guild as a whole. I did also not say that all the rules are bad, just that smogon doesn't truly have the right to say what people can and cannot use; that should be up to the people involved (like I stated) and can be smogon's rules if agreed upon. You're just taking half of what I said and making me look ignorant, something I will never tolerate.

 

[RifleAvenger]

Competitive Pokemon by no means is limited to smogon. I also made it clear it is MY opinion, thus does not effect the views of the guild as a whole. I did also not say that all the rules are bad, just that smogon doesn't truly have the right to say what people can and cannot use; that should be up to the people involved (like I stated) and can be smogon's rules if agreed upon. You're just taking half of what I said and making me look ignorant, something I will never tolerate.

Competitive Pokemon at a Major Tournament level is pretty much limited to VGC and Smogon. While VGC is Nintendo official, it has been doubles only for years, the rules change every year, and it often revolves around a theme or gimmick (ex. 5th gen only). The only fan-made rulesets that I know have been widely used outside of Smogon are Regileague's and Pokemon Online's; even then, only the tier-lists differed and were often very similar.

It's a battle format smogon (who has absolutely nothing to do with gamefreak or the creators of pokemon) created to make battles "fair." It limits you to specific pokemon because others have been deemed too weak while others have been banned because they are too powerful. Aka a bunch of crap created by people to fix something that wasn't broken that everyone and his/her brother uses and flips out if people don't want to use for whatever reason.

Where do you make it clear this is your opinion? There's no "I think that..." or "imo" etc. in the entire post. This comment is pretty much stated as an empirical fact. Even if we know it's obviously your opinion, how does a new player know that your opinion isn't the common consensus (which it is not in the competitive community)? It also contains misinformation: no pokemon is ever tiered based on weakness, and lower tiers can always be used in higher ones.

Smogon nevers tells anyone to use its rules; it is the general opinion of many sites, including this one, that Smogon has developed the best set of rules. Therefore, most players looking for competitive matches on Serebii or elsewhere prefer to use Smogon's rules. They are deciding for themselves what they use, in this case a generally agreed upon standard. The reason people "flip out if it isn't used" is because they and the vast majority of other battlers do use it. Anything else outside of VGC is an abnormality.

Note that the rather active casual battling section ignores Smogon utterly and does set up rules beforehand. However, in my experiences with them the level of competition is lower, and playing with things like M-gar and Blaze Chicken reminds me of why such things were considered to have a poor influence on gameplay. Also, how could a tournament be fairly ran if everyone had to debate what was legal beforehand all the time? I had that problem for years with my friends prior to discovering Smogon's standard ruleset. While it can be "fun," it is most certainly not "competitive." Competitive is what Smogon (and often VGC) offers; a meta that is well tested, balanced, and used by thousands of fellow players.

This is all I will say here, lest we turn this into something unsightly. If you wish to continue to debate this with me, please PM me on-site or in-chat.

 

[rovert]

Competitive Pokemon at a Major Tournament level is pretty much limited to VGC and Smogon. While VGC is Nintendo official, it has been doubles only for years, the rules change every year, and it often revolves around a theme or gimmick (ex. 5th gen only). The only fan-made rulesets that I know have been widely used outside of Smogon are Regileague's and Pokemon Online's; even then, only the tier-lists differed and were often very similar.



Where do you make it clear this is your opinion? There's no "I think that..." or "imo" etc. in the entire post. This comment is pretty much stated as an empirical fact. Even if we know it's obviously your opinion, how does a new player know that your opinion isn't the common consensus (which it is not in the competitive community)? It also contains misinformation: no pokemon is ever tiered based on weakness, and lower tiers can always be used in higher ones.

Smogon nevers tells anyone to use its rules; it is the general opinion of many sites, including this one, that Smogon has developed the best set of rules. Therefore, most players looking for competitive matches on Serebii or elsewhere prefer to use Smogon's rules. They are deciding for themselves what they use, in this case a generally agreed upon standard. The reason people "flip out if it isn't used" is because they and the vast majority of other battlers do use it. Anything else outside of VGC is an abnormality.

Note that the rather active casual battling section ignores Smogon utterly and does set up rules beforehand. However, in my experiences with them the level of competition is lower, and playing with things like M-gar and Blaze Chicken reminds me of why such things were considered to have a poor influence on gameplay. Also, how could a tournament be fairly ran if everyone had to debate what was legal beforehand all the time? I had that problem for years with my friends prior to discovering Smogon's standard ruleset. While it can be "fun," it is most certainly not "competitive." Competitive is what Smogon (and often VGC) offers; a meta that is well tested, balanced, and used by thousands of fellow players.

This is all I will say here, lest we turn this into something unsightly. If you wish to continue to debate this with me, please PM me on-site or in-chat.

Yay for the series of walls of text (WARY)

I have a few last things to say, but they won't turn into anything ugly. I've been in higher level English classes for so long, that my opinion is almost always some sort of thesis, so I'm sorry if I didn't make it extremely clear what my opinion was (saying as most people who read what I write assume there's a thesis and not a specific "I feel" or "I believe") and I apologize for the confusion. Furthermore, I was stating that the guild could decide on a set of rules for the tournament, not each individual battle (but still have everyone give input) thus not having confusion while still having input.

I would also like to say that the biggest thing is that it is other people who decide, not so much the who decides. They don't have any connection to GAMEFREAK, yet they act like they control the game (even if they do control most of competitive playing) without an easy way to get input. In my mind, people should have a say, and coming from someone who's been trying to get into competitive for 2 generations now, it's confusing. If they were to explain things better rather than just say these pokémon can't be used with these others unless all the legendaries are involved as well, it would be a lot easier. If people are willing to take the time (whether they are connected to smogon or not) and make some sort of sense out of why things happen, it would be better. I personally do not use simulators that often (PO is slow on my desktop and cannot be used on my surface, and PS teams cannot be transferred from one computer to another since teams are based on cookies), so I'm stuck trying to learn about the metagame with very few pokémon that take a while to get ready. If people want to help, they can PM me on here or discuss it on the chat, and I think I may have figured out a way to have the teams on both computers, but I don't know how buggy it is...

 

[BGP_]

So I figured out how to make mai streams look a good bit better, might try it on SA2again tonight or tomorrow, though i'm working with limited internet and no desktop atm so not exactly as good as I could make it.