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Dragon Battle! Ash VS Iris!! (1154)

And she stopped to help the opponent's Pokemon instead of straight attacking it. Don't see how that isn't holding back.
In that part Dragonite was ready to fight so that part is not holding back.

However, there is a part in Happynite vs Angrynite when after Dragon Dive crash with Dragon Claw, Happynite is forced down to the ground and look afraid while Angrynite hovering in front. It is like Happynite bowing down to Angrynite. Clearly Happynite is in vulnerable state and Angrynite could have easily finish it but Iris hold back and did not say a comand. This one is clearly holding back.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Glad to see Goh going on a catching spree, but only two Pokemon? Would have been nice to see more. He's rarely in Unova, so he should take the opportunity. But that would have taken time from the rest of the episode, so.

On the contrary i'm glad he only got 2 because the battle was definitely shorter than it should've been as is.
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
In that part Dragonite was ready to fight so that part is not holding back.
How was Dragonite ready to fully fight when it need Iris' help to boost his strength and learn a new move?
 

AuraChannelerChris

Angry Subway Employee ~Eat Fresh~
The point is Iris helped Dragonite unlock a new move instead of taking advatange of Dragonite's situation. She very well could have taken advantage of it but she loves Dragon type Pokemon so much that she could not help it.
What she loves will be her demise.
 
The point is Iris helped Dragonite unlock a new move
Ash solely invented the way to get the new move. Even Dragonite merely following Ash's instruction, not improvising on its own. The only help Iris give in the new move formation are telling Haxorus to fire Dragon Pulse which became the fuel and cheering for it when the Dragon Pulse is sucked by Hurricane.
 
How was Dragonite ready to fully fight when it need Iris' help to boost his strength and learn a new move?
After Ash talk and before Iris talk, Dragonite give a battle cry and show taunting gesture signaling readiness to fight. NB: I didn't say fully

If you wany to see the part wheb Dragonite is not ready, read this:
Happynite is forced down to the ground and look afraid while Angrynite hovering in front. It is like Happynite bowing down to Angrynite. Clearly Happynite is in vulnerable state
 

DragonKahuna

Dragon Master
Btw, about the silhouette trainers. Two of them are Bea and Volkner. The man in the far back is LT Surge I think. That leaves us with the guy next to Volkner and the female trainer.

The male trainer kinda looks like Tyson (or Brendan anynone?) but I don't know. The female trainer is also difficult to understand. My options are Sabrina, Leaf, Nessa.
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
Ash solely invented the way to get the new move. Even Dragonite merely following Ash's instruction, not improvising on its own. The only help Iris give in the new move formation is cheering for it when the Dragon Pulse is sucked by Hurricane.
Iris stopped attacking him though?
That isn't holding back? She had the chance, she did not take it.
 

Dynamic_Fusion

HIKARI HYPE
If the the anime's budget could afford Aoi Yuki for a two-parter, they would. People don't realize how much she likely costs because they likely have only heard her as Iris.

I got what I wanted, so I'm not complaining.

And people really going with the "IF IT ISN'T IN-FRAME, IT DOESN'T EXIST" mentality that poisons so many anime fandoms....

Dragonite gets speed from Dragon Dance. It isn't a useless move.

And the predictable battle lines were drawn here & on Bulbagarden...
Even animators are underpayed sometimes
True, if this guy is right, of course.

 
Iris stopped attacking him though?
That isn't holding back? She had the chance, she did not take it.
Stop attacking goes both way. If it was Paul instead of Ash, he will command Dragonite to attack while Iris busy talking. Note that before Iris talk, Ash already told Dragonite to prepare to show of their battle style (Goh confirmed that using Hurricane as shield is their battle style).

Now what you said is true in Angrynite vs Happynite. Angrynite stop attacking while Happynite kneeled down. That is holding back.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
The point is Iris helped Dragonite unlock a new move instead of taking advatange of Dragonite's situation. She very well could have taken advantage of it but she loves Dragon type Pokemon so much that she could not help it.

But she didn't, she unintentionally gave Dragonite the recipe to create a new move, but that was completely all Ash's work, according to his plan.

There was nothing to take advantage of because Iris clearly didn't know what Ash or Dragonite was doing.

Were there are other moments Iris could've taken advantage? Sure, but the most important part, her downfall, Draco Meteor was absolutely not one of them.

Take Ash vs Gary when Charizard used flamethrower on the battlefield. Gary was indecisive for awhile because he didn't know what Ash's strategy was until he used Hydro pump which is what Ash wanted.

Same here, Iris had Haxorus use dragon pulse because she genuinely thought it would break the hurricane barrier, she didn't use it with intention of Ash using in his planned favor of turning it into draco meteor.

Iris was too slow to come to that realization and it went horrible for her but its not like she intentionally sat back and let it happen, she just didn't know what to do, while Ash did.

Again all Iris did was "ask" Dragonite to not take everything too seriously and even cheering it on, Iris just fell into Ash's trap that he had planned from the start (well before Iris's speech to Dragonite at least)
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
Stop attacking goes both way. If it was Paul instead of Ash, he will command Dragonite to attack while Iris busy talking. Note that before Iris talk, Ash already told Dragonite to prepare to show of their battle style (Goh confirmed that using Hurricane as shield is their battle style).

Now what you said is true in Angrynite vs Happynite. Angrynite stop attacking while Happynite kneeled down. That is holding back.
I rewatched that part, you might be right.
I have my doubts though. Iris had to intervene. She said she wanted Dragonite enjoy the battle and that's what she seemed to care the most. Sth was troubling Dragonite. Iris influenced Dragonite instead of focusing on her own Pokemon. I don't see how she isn't holding back in that sense.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Let me put it another way, let's assume Iris didn't intervene, the only thing I imagine that would've differed is Dragonite would've had a higher chance at FAILING draco meteor.

Because let's be clear Ash had intended to create Draco Meteor and use it against Iris before Iris intervened.

Had Dragonite not been told to "have fun" I assume Dragonite would've been more aggressive and I imagine at worst Dragonite's lack of better cohesion of moves would've resulted in a draco meteor failure, in other words Iris screwed herself over by ensuring that Dragonite would "perfectly" pull off the strategy Ash was going to implement to begin with

But Iris clearly didn't know that was going to happen, thus she screwed herself by unintentionally falling for Ash's trap (not the perfect movements but not realizing Ash wanted her to use the moves she did use). Iris focused on the wrong thing.
 

Sham

Ice so cold it burns
I’m less “bothered” by this outcome. Even towards the end of the battle Ash questions why Iris is rooting for them to win. That line kinda determined how I felt about this battle in the grand scheme of things and why Ash won. She even shifts her interests from winning the battle to “I want to show Dragonite how fun battling can be!”.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Ash had nothing planned lol I’ve never seen such reaching before until now

Would you watch the episode?

Ash absolutely before Iris said damn, had planned to use hurricane as a shield, to get Iris to use dragon pulse to create draco meteor

Again

ASH DID NOT KNOW WHAT IRIS TOLD DRAGONITE THEREFORE IT DID NOT INFLUENCE **** on Ash's part.

. Even towards the end of the battle Ash questions why Iris is rooting for them to win.

Because Iris focused on Dragonite not Ash which was Iris's downfall

Let's not be absolutely stupid and not realize trainers give commands to their Pokemon, they don't just do things on their own, yhey can but they typically don't.
 

Lelouch-Red

Active Member
Some people really did not understand the episode here.

Ash's Dragonite didn't love to battle, it battled because of her love to Ash. Ash's Dragonite gave her best because she wanted to fight for ash. Iris just showed to Ash's Dragonite that battling can be fun and with that way that she can still impress Ash, and make him happy. Because Dragonite's happiness comes from Ash's happiness. Ash's Dragonite's durability comes from her love to Ash. The will to fight for him. Like I said, Iris just showed, that she can still do the same by having fun in battles. Thats why Iris said, that she should relax. Ash's Dragonite is a kind one, thats what Iris felt by touching it.

Before that, Ash already gave Dragonite the order to battle, since he had a plan already, as you can see the battle vow Dragonite made before Iris touched it. Iris didn't expect that Ash would come with a strategy, to use Hurricane to absorb Dragon Pulse and to turn it into Draco Meteor. She was caught off guard. So she didn't have the chance anymore to evade, it was too late.

Iris's Dragonite lost, because Iris never saw a Dracovish as a species. So, like Ash lost to Bea's Grapploct, Iris's Dragonite lost to Dracovish. The problem is, Iris ordered her Dragonite to directly attack it because she didn't know that Dracovish had such a strong jaw. The point is, Dracovish bit Dragonite's head, so it couldn't even hear orders from Iris. The Ice Fang a 4x move + Dragonite's unfortunate situation lead to its loss. If Iris knew Dracovish before, Dragoran would win. Because as you can see, she directly ordered Haxorus to attack Dracovish from the "distance" by using Psycho cut,. So it was an easy win for Haxorus against Dracovish, after figuring out its weakness.
 
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