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Dragon Battle! Ash VS Iris!! (1154)

RafaSceptile

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Dragalge said:
Even Melmetal, who did lose but still was unexpected, still dealt a ton of damage to Silvally before Pikachu finished it off. Had Gladion known what Melmetal was prior to the match, Silvally would have not been as damaged as it was.
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Actually Gladion had the advantage to choose the correct Memory for that situation, the Fighting one.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Almighty Zard said:
Yes, because again how can you know what to expect out of something you've never seen before?

Several trainers have had this happen to them throughout the course of the anime and no one is immune to this, Ash has had it happen to him a few times such as Gary's Electivire after the battle frontier, when Pikachu had just taken down a Regice, but Electivire made short work of Pikachu because Ash didn't know what it was capable of.

there's also another factor to consider to these arguments about Dragonites "Ice" resistance in the past.

It's likely that when fighting Beartic and Mamoswine, Dragonite had prepared and braced itself to take those moves despite them being weak to them, yet with Dracovish it's guard could've been dropped due to the shock factor and thus that's why ice fang worked so well.

let me use this as an exmaple, say you got in a fight with someone and you are about to get to punched, you know it's coming, and if you brace yourself for the impact the damage is likely to be lessened even if it hurts because your focusing your senses towards it in preparation, but let's say the puncher does something shocking that drops your guard and makes you lose that focus, all of a sudden that punch is likely going to hurt alot more because your no longer as prepared to take it.
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But doesn’t this fall under the assumption that Dragonite knew what Mamoswine and Beartic was? How do we know he didn’t?
 
Almighty Zard

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Sham said:
But doesn’t this fall under the assumption that Dragonite knew what Mamoswine and Beartic was? How do we know he didn’t?
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Well it's not like we know what Dragonite had been doing before Iris caught it, but she is just as responsible, because she didn't know what Dracovish was either, if a trainer and pokemon's synchronization is thrown off that makes things go south quickly.

To further nail the point home, think about the fight with Krokorok, Dragonite appeared to start listening to Iris, and they had a steady stream going, but the second Krokorok evolved, both of them got shook up, Dragonite got clawed into a wall, and everything went down hill from there.

AuraChannelerChris said:
Kid had no rules holding him back from changing his chimera's typing.
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kind of makes me wonder why he didn't go for the fire drive, it would've resisted hits better but oh well.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Almighty Zard said:
Well it's not like we know what Dragonite had been doing before Iris caught it, but she is just as responsible, because she didn't know what Dracovish was either, if a trainer and pokemon's synchronization is thrown off that makes things go south quickly.

To further nail the point home, think about the fight with Krokorok, Dragonite appeared to start listening to Iris, and they had a steady stream going, but the second Krokorok evolved, both of them got shook up, Dragonite got clawed into a wall, and everything went down hill from there.



kind of makes me wonder why he didn't go for the fire drive, it would've resisted hits better but oh well.
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I still don’t like this explanation because it’s not like Dracovish used the element of surprise and took advantage of this with a strategy it’s literally “well Iris didn’t know what this Pokémon was so she lost”. Like I get it but I don’t get it. Maybe if the battle would of been stretched out and Dracovish pulled some tricks out of his sleeve and outsmarted Dragonite it could of been done correctly but he literally used one combination move and destroyed Dragonite. We are given no reason to think that he won besides using a super effective move since not even Ash, Drayden or Iris confirmed that he lost for any other reason. Usually commentators in a battle (so Goh and Drayden) would of mentioned something like that.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Also going by this logic... Dragonite has never seen a Haxorus since he was on the island prior to his capture and Ash has sure as heck never battled one so how did he win and only ever seen one briefly with Drayden’s battle with Iris.
 
Almighty Zard

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Sham said:
I still don’t like this explanation because it’s not like Dracovish used the element of surprise and took advantage of this with a strategy it’s literally “well Iris didn’t know what this Pokémon was so she lost”. Like I get it but I don’t get it.
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So the other examples myself and people have given mean nothing?

Sham said:
Maybe if the battle would of been stretched out and Dracovish pulled some tricks out of his sleeve and outsmarted Dragonite it could of been done correctly but he literally used one combination move and destroyed Dragonite. We are given no reason to think the he won besides him using a super effective move since not even Ash, Drayden or Iris confirmed that he lost for that reason. Usually commentators in a battle (so Goh and Drayden) would of mentioned something like that.
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Iris even said Dracovish threw her pace off when she called Dragonite back.

You know what the real culprit is here? this episode not being a two parter or just a 1 v 1, because ALOT of details in this episode were rushed, not just Dracovish's manhandling of Dragonite.

Sham said:
Also going by this logic... Dragonite has never seen a Haxorus since he was on the island and Ash has sure as heck never battled one so how did he win?
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Ash has seen other people use Haxorus and has seen the species in combat, seeing something fight is different than never seeing it at all, because that gives you some knowledge that you can use as apposed to none at all.

I'm getting tired of this, I get that your a hardcore Iris fan and i respect that but why go so far to object to something that can not be changed?

Believe me this show's done alot of things i've never personally liked but complaining is not going to change it.

All I can really say at this point is, if Ash and Iris do battle again whatever went down here can not happen again, both of them will have to use new tactics if they have a rematch with each other, and hopefully more time will be allowed for the battle to be handled better.
 
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Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Almighty Zard said:
So the other examples myself and people have given mean nothing?



Iris even said Dracovish threw her pace off when she called Dragonite back.

You know what the real culprit is here? this episode not being a two parter or just a 1 v 1, because ALOT of details in this episode were rushed, not just Dracovish's manhandling of Dragonite.



Ash has seen other people use Haxorus and has seen the species in combat, seeing something fight is different than never seeing it at all, because that gives you some knowledge that you can use as apposed to none at all.

I'm getting tired of this, I get that your a hardcore Iris fan but why go so far to object to something that can not be changed?

Believe me this show's done alot of things i've never personally liked but complaining is not going to change it.

All I can really say at this point is, if Ash and Iris do battle again whatever went down here can not happen again, both of them will have to use new tactics if they have a rematch with each other, and hopefully more time will be allowed for the battle to be handled better.
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I mean I’m not forcing you to respond to me. You’re also the one who quoted me first. Also being a fan of the topic at hand has nothing to do with it. I would of said the same thing if the roles were reversed so that’s kinda irrelevant. It’s easy to dismiss my argument as “he’s just a fan so that’s why he’s saying X”. I’m not sure why you and like two other people don’t think I never hold Iris to task. I don’t believe she’s a perfect character and I mostly like her for her personality rather than any achievements so there goes your dismissal of my argument. Dragonite has had a track record of being able tank powerful Ice Type moves from Pokémon he’s never seen before. That’s why I think your argument is invalid.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Dynamic_Fusion said:
Yea, I have reasonable critiques of this battle but the reasoning of "He didn't know the Pokemon" is sorta dumb.
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It’s silly. This argument is basically saying that simply not knowing a Pokémon (trainer or the Pokémon who’s battling) can play a huge factor in who wins and I refuse to buy that. How many times has Ash battled a Pokémon he didn’t know and won?
 
U

UglyToast

Well-Known Member
Sham said:
Yeah but since when does a surprise attack automatically take a Pokémon out? I’m sure Dragonite didn’t know Mamoswine or Bearitc’s movepool but still tanked it. And I know he bit him viciously but this is the same Pokémon who was frozen solid but still won and grabbed Mamowsine Ice Fang with his bear hands. Power scaling is bad in light of Journeys but Mamoswine literally couldn’t touch Dragonite. They totally retcon how resistant he is towards Ice moves. Dracovish’s ability is in question but until confirmation that was a huge nerf.
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nah fam, those were against ICE types, Dragonite knew what was coming to him, Dracovish on the other hand is Water/Dragon type which ice type attacks would do neutral damage (aside from freeze-dry) besides haven't you seen Dragonite's face after seeing Dracovish for the first time, also it only wasn't a "surprise attack" that took out Dragonite, he got hit by Fishious Rend first (I know anime known as not too consistent when it comes to the games but If Dracovish moves after target, it doubles the power of the move, I think you know which Pokemon is faster right?)
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
UglyToast said:
nah fam, those were against ICE types, Dragonite knew what was coming to him, Dracovish on the other hand is Water/Dragon type which ice type attacks would do neutral damage (aside from freeze-dry) besides haven't you seen Dragonite's face after seeing Dracovish for the first time, also it only wasn't a "surprise attack" that took out Dragonite, he got hit by Fishious Rend first (I know anime known as not too consistent when it comes to the games but If Dracovish moves after target, it doubles the power of the move, I think you know which Pokemon is faster right?)
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Let me do you one better. Fishious Rend only works if the Pokémon’s attack hits first before using the move and then it’s powered it’s almost like Revenge. Dragonite’s attack didn’t land. Dragonite also resists FR for obvious reasons. Also remember that episode where Ash and Iris battled and Iris had NO idea about the Charizard line even going on to think he was a Dragon Type? Charizard is one of Ash’s arguably strongest types and he still didn’t easily take Dragonite down. Yes he over power him but even using a super effective move that Dragonite wasn’t expecting (Dragon Tail) didn’t take him out.

edit: I was wrong FR is only doubled if the USER attacks before the Pokémon so there is no way this attack could of been doubled since Iris commanded Dragonite first.
 
Ignition

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Wouldn’t it be nice if Serebii fourms tried not to bring up Serena, other past female companions, and the Alola League in every thread or is that too much to ask for? I know you have to get tired of repeating the same things and getting nowhere

Anyway, glad this episode most delivered for @Sham and anyone else who has been wanting Iris to return since XY
 
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