RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Mimey* crying in a corner
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Dragon Battle! Ash VS Iris!! (1154)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
Ragnarok4
2024
In fact, that's what I was thinking when I put that comment
That's why Ash needs a Gardevoir
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
....ash knew it had ice fang because he commanded Dracovish to use that lmao. In the water episode he didn't know dracovish knew any moves until it used fishious Rend, and now we see him commanding it to use ice fang, a clear indicator he was trained and used off screen
Sham
The Guardian of War
When I said he didn’t know he had Ice Fang I’m under the assumption that Dracovish already knew the move and Ash found out later on instead of Dracovish’s Ice Fang being the result of training. It’s very convincing that Dracovish already knew Ice Fang upon being revived like he did FS. However I’ll give you that maybe Ash just trained him off screen and he learned it. As far as Fishious Rend you already admitted he didn’t know the Dracovish had that move so that proves prior to that water episode that he wasn’t really training him. That water episode and this episode are like two episodes apart so how much was he really training Dracovish?
Morax
King of heroes
Negligible and insufficient. Training off-screen is no justification for taking down a champion tier pokemon ( unless you've been training on Mt. Silver ). Ash won due to plot armor, period,
Sham
The Guardian of War
You know you’re agreeing with me right? I’m literally saying the the same thing.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Agreed in case of Dragonite. In case of Dracovish, like I've been saying, it's more of a tactical victory using the element of surprise, strategy and a mons quirks. It doesn't mean dracovish is strong enough to be a champion tier mon
Morax
King of heroes
Of course i'm agreeing with you lol.
Sham
The Guardian of War
But he was able to take down a champion Pokémon and that’s were the BS comes from. I’m not gonna get into the “element of surprise” thing and “Iris not knowing what Dracovish was” because other users have explained why that doesn’t hold up pages prior but Dracovish being able to take out a champion’s Pokémon with little to no training is called.... say it with me!
Gotcha
Morax
King of heroes
I never disagreed on that part though...
I have been thinking about this episode for a while now and no matter how I look at it, the way that it went down just bothers me and I honestly cannot agree with the general consensus that it was a good episode
For one thing, as I have stated many times before in the past; Iris has never been one of my favorite characters, far from it in fact, and so that was bound to wind up being a hindrance when it came to actually enjoying this episode, even though I really do like dragons. Also, the fact that Iris’ original “a little kid” catchphrase was actually brought back did not help. Oh, if only she wasn’t associated with dragons-type Pokémon or at the very least was able to make a better first impression upon me during her initial run as a regional traveling companion.
On another related matter it, um-uh, also felt somehow wrong to me that the Dragonite battle was just so one-sided in Iris’ favor. It just feels like Ash’s Dragonite should have been able to deal more damage and hold its own against Iris’. And I certainly don’t like the idea of it being believed that it would have been most likely overwhelmed by Iris’ Dragonite had Ash not called it back. Couldn’t it have been more like; Ash’s Dragonite could have held its own against Iris’ Dragonite, had the battle continued, with the winner still being up in the air, and Ash only recalled his Dragonite because he was worried that it was being psyched out to certain degree or at least something to that effect? It just feels like in the appearances that it has been given, Ash’s Dragonite has proven that it cannot be defeated so easily, no matter how powerful its opponent is.
Also, like quite a few other people who have watched this episode, I really do wish that Ash’s status as the Alola Region Champion was brought up, now that Iris is the Champion of the Unova Region.
But, what really bothers me about this episode is the fact that Iris has this apparent gift that allows her to connect with Dragon-type Pokémon on a spiritual level. Now granted, this was, in part, because of the fact that Ash has no such ability for whatever reason, but another big part of it is because it is largely believed that it was only because of Iris doing this that Ash won this match, which just feels wrong to me. Ash should not need to have these kinds of situations to sway the battles that he partakes in in his favor. If they were merely trying to showcase Iris’ knack and love for Dragon-type Pokémon, than, like much of the rest of the episode; it really does feel like they could have done that in a different way.
Anyone have any comments about all of this?
For one thing, as I have stated many times before in the past; Iris has never been one of my favorite characters, far from it in fact, and so that was bound to wind up being a hindrance when it came to actually enjoying this episode, even though I really do like dragons. Also, the fact that Iris’ original “a little kid” catchphrase was actually brought back did not help. Oh, if only she wasn’t associated with dragons-type Pokémon or at the very least was able to make a better first impression upon me during her initial run as a regional traveling companion.
On another related matter it, um-uh, also felt somehow wrong to me that the Dragonite battle was just so one-sided in Iris’ favor. It just feels like Ash’s Dragonite should have been able to deal more damage and hold its own against Iris’. And I certainly don’t like the idea of it being believed that it would have been most likely overwhelmed by Iris’ Dragonite had Ash not called it back. Couldn’t it have been more like; Ash’s Dragonite could have held its own against Iris’ Dragonite, had the battle continued, with the winner still being up in the air, and Ash only recalled his Dragonite because he was worried that it was being psyched out to certain degree or at least something to that effect? It just feels like in the appearances that it has been given, Ash’s Dragonite has proven that it cannot be defeated so easily, no matter how powerful its opponent is.
Also, like quite a few other people who have watched this episode, I really do wish that Ash’s status as the Alola Region Champion was brought up, now that Iris is the Champion of the Unova Region.
But, what really bothers me about this episode is the fact that Iris has this apparent gift that allows her to connect with Dragon-type Pokémon on a spiritual level. Now granted, this was, in part, because of the fact that Ash has no such ability for whatever reason, but another big part of it is because it is largely believed that it was only because of Iris doing this that Ash won this match, which just feels wrong to me. Ash should not need to have these kinds of situations to sway the battles that he partakes in in his favor. If they were merely trying to showcase Iris’ knack and love for Dragon-type Pokémon, than, like much of the rest of the episode; it really does feel like they could have done that in a different way.
Anyone have any comments about all of this?
FlygontheRavager
#1 Pokémon Anime Fan!
Actually, the anime version of Iris has always been able to do that, though it does seem like she's gotten significantly better at it.
And while I do think that Iris talking to Dragonite did significantly affect the outcome of the battle, I think that what they showed wasn't just that Iris has a knack for/love of Dragon-types, but that she cares about their wellbeing even more than winning, and that she is not only worthy of being Unova's Champion, but also well on her way to becoming a Dragon Master.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
As a candidate for a Dragon Master, she wants to understand and help Dragon Type Pokémon, and as she mentioned, she only wanted Ash's Dragonite to have fun, she didn't gift the battle if she never had the intention to lose intentionally.
Ragnarok4
2024
Alain*
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Nah, this is not going to have "anniversary" replies like Alain has
EDIT: Alain is an UB, confirmed
1. And again it feels somewhat wrong to me that someone with her condescending and annoying attitude has that type of ability while someone like Ash does not
2. I repeat; Ash should not have needed that sort of thing to win. He has always had a good relationship with his Pokémon in some shape or form and Dragonite is a Pokémon that he has had no real problems with before, they should have already had a close enough bond to make Iris’ intervention unnecessary.
3. Are you saying that Ash isn’t worthy of being a Champion?
And Ash shouldn’t have needed that, he has virtually always been all about having fun with his Pokémon during a battle
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
Yes but this was Dragonite's problem, because it was the one not enjoying the battle because he was fighting for Ash, and not because it enjoy battles
Sham
The Guardian of War
When will we be free of the “what about muh Ash” rants. How long? Ash’s companions are their own people and not an extension of him therefor able to have their own abilities and accomplishments divorced from him. It doesn’t make sense for Ash to be able to communicate with Dragons. You want him to have the ability just because Iris does? Also what does her attitude have to do with this? Plenty of “condescending” (she’s not but okay) have gifts and talents in the real world. Being a good person isn’t a qualification for having a talent. Plenty of “mean” people are really good at things.