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Dragonite Discussion

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xXShinyUmbreonXx

Well-Known Member
I don't know, I never have any problems with it, even after one DD, and I never have it get to two dd's, it's always dead before that happens. Maybe it's just that all of the attackers on my team have an unintentional way to counter it, especially after SR. In my opinion, it's too slow for my style of play, as multiscale will usually be negated by the time it gets one dd, then, if it doesn't outspeed, which is very likely imo, it's dead. I think this could very likely be my own team, though, but I don't see any problems with it. I hate scizor worse than dnite.
 
When I think Dragonite, one thing that comes to mind is consistency. If you ever have an empty spot in your team and you need someone who can always change a game, Dragonite is always a viable option.
 

destructo

Well-Known Member
Its not that overpowered. Stealth rock and/or status can take care of multiscale. If you have Rain up, then you can wall dnite with steel pokemon sucks as skarm and ferrothorn
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
I adore Dragonite! Since way back in Gen1 there's always been one on my competitive teams - until now that meant local leagues, but this Spring he gets to go to VGC.

Still finalizing his EV spread, but here's his set....follow the link in siggy to see the whole team:

Dragonite (Mild or Hasty) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252SA/___/____ (64 * / 192 Spd / 252 SAtk or 4 */ 252 Spd / 252 SAtk (mild), 56 */ 200 Spd / 252 SAtk (hasty))

- Thunderbolt (hits most other dragons)
- Ice Beam (hits dragons, grounds, grass, et al)
- Flamethrower (steels and ices)
- Focus Blast (TTar and those obnoxious Moonlighting Umbreon)

*will likely wind up being HP. I know the dragon is better (and most often used) as a Physical Attacker, but that's kind of the point: Surprise the opposition enough that they make a mistake while trying to figure out why he's a Special.

This is basically the same set I used way back when, although the old set had EQ instead of Focus Blast. FB went on to keep the Special pool and because he got walled by moonlighting Umbreons. This set gives near perfect coverage and Expert Belt cranks the power to STAB or near-STAB levels (sometimes STAB+).
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
cloyster can take care of Dragonite easily.
Bring it.

91/134/95/100/100/80 vs 50/95/180/85/45/70 = No Contest. Clam gonna be steamed up right nicely by my fire and thunder wielding Specialist.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Bring it.

91/134/95/100/100/80 vs 50/95/180/85/45/70 = No Contest. Clam gonna be steamed up right nicely by my fire and thunder wielding Specialist.
Most Dragonite are Physical. Cloyster has skill link and icicle spear.

Cloyster can, if fact, take care of most Dragonite.
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
Most, yes...Specialist with cranked SA/HP/Spe and Fire/Elec can put some hurt on and MAYBE actually have a shot at a win, though.

Wouldn't Icicle Spear be 100? 25 base, STAB makes it 50, dragon takes it to 100, right?...not sure how to factor in muti-effect, though...

Still..Marvel Scale and Expert belt help greatly, esecially if Dnite gets the first shot off. Skill Link is only a plus in that scenario.

course there's always Ice Shard....160 if my math is right...and a revenge kill Avalanche if you crank the oyster's HP..hmmmmm
 

Aurath8

Well-Known Member
Most, yes...Specialist with cranked SA/HP/Spe and Fire/Elec can put some hurt on and MAYBE actually have a shot at a win, though.

Wouldn't Icicle Spear be 100? 25 base, STAB makes it 50, dragon takes it to 100, right?...not sure how to factor in muti-effect, though...
Skill Link means Icicle Spear always hits 5 times. That means it's 125 Base power effectively. Dragonite is Dragon/Flying so Ice is x4 effective, not x2. That's 500 Base Power. Oh and STAB: 750 power. No matter what, Dragonite will be KOed(unless it misses).
Still..Marvel Scale and Expert belt help greatly, esecially if Dnite gets the first shot off.
It's Multiscale and as long as you're running enough Speed, Thunderbolt will KO thanks to Cloyster's godawful Spdef. In fact, 95% of the time a Cloyster will use Shell Smash on turn 1 meaning you might not need to outspeed to get the suprise KO with T-bolt.
course there's always Ice Shard....160 if my math is right...and a revenge kill Avalanche if you crank the oyster's HP..hmmmmm
STAB Ice Shard vs. a Dragonite will hit for 240 power. Avalanche would only work if Dragonite decides to stay in on a Cloyster, which won't happen unless Draggy knows it can KO Cloyster.
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
Adjust for Multiscale and lay it out for me, please...still learning how to do all the calculations.

Sounds like Dnite has a shot at nailing Cloyster to the floor...what would be the bare minimum Spe EV for a Mild or Hasty dragon to get the jump on the various Ices (one with and one without Kyurem)?
 

Dragonicwari

Artistically angry
Just putting this out their; multi scale should be broke after the first icicle spear hits, every subsequent one will be at full power. The ability reads something like: at full hp the pokemon takes half damage (or something like that, don't have my ds on me) so it's essentially a weakened sturdy/focus sash
 

Jacobthepokemonfreak

Fly it all away!
Something else that ought to be mentioned is Mold Breaker Haxorus. Mold Breaker lets him cut past Multiscale, giving him a free OHKO with Outrage. Also, rain-boosted Surf should in theory be able to take down Heatran, if you have the team support for a rain-abuse Dragonite.
and mold breaker Rampardos, man it works wonders.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
^You're taking that post a little too seriously....
and mold breaker Rampardos, man it works wonders.
Scarf Rampardos is out sped by +1 Dragonite. If you Rampardos in, that means whatever you're using can handle D-nite, and it'll try to use Dragon Dance. If Rampardos is already in...Well, who the heck would send D-nite in on Rampardos anyway?

Air Balloon Heatran is probably it's best counter.
 
If it was, wouldn't it be uber on everyones team? Sweeping Ou teams on it's own with no problem whatsoever?
If you don't play right, it's more than capable of sweeping teams by itself.

E:


I adore Dragonite! Since way back in Gen1 there's always been one on my competitive teams - until now that meant local leagues, but this Spring he gets to go to VGC.

Still finalizing his EV spread, but here's his set....follow the link in siggy to see the whole team:

Dragonite (Mild or Hasty) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252SA/___/____ (64 * / 192 Spd / 252 SAtk or 4 */ 252 Spd / 252 SAtk (mild), 56 */ 200 Spd / 252 SAtk (hasty))

- Thunderbolt (hits most other dragons)
- Ice Beam (hits dragons, grounds, grass, et al)
- Flamethrower (steels and ices)
- Focus Blast (TTar and those obnoxious Moonlighting Umbreon)

*will likely wind up being HP. I know the dragon is better (and most often used) as a Physical Attacker, but that's kind of the point: Surprise the opposition enough that they make a mistake while trying to figure out why he's a Special.

This is basically the same set I used way back when, although the old set had EQ instead of Focus Blast. FB went on to keep the Special pool and because he got walled by moonlighting Umbreons. This set gives near perfect coverage and Expert Belt cranks the power to STAB or near-STAB levels (sometimes STAB+).
Why the hell would you run Mild/Hasty if you're running all special. Throw Brick Break on for Ttar, and get rid of Ice Beam for Outrage, or Dragon Claw. (Or Dragon Rush if you're into testing your luck)
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
Why the hell would you run Mild/Hasty if you're running all special. Throw Brick Break on for Ttar, and get rid of Ice Beam for Outrage, or Dragon Claw. (Or Dragon Rush if you're into testing your luck)
Because I forgot to change over from the original set up...should be Modest. No DR, not that lucky...and no outrage for doubles. FB is a single launch (unlike Focus Punch), and I believe BB is a physical move...though I do have it on the team, fwiw.

And the moves got a tweak as well:

- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

*Very non-standard Dragon. Surprise Special Specialist with FB. IB and Tbolt have the chance at status effect which can benefit Washtom if timed right. Had Flamethrower, but this spread actually gets better coverage as Ice Beam covers the weeds and FB covers Steels while also adding a STAB. Belt gives STAB or near-STAB (and sometimes STAB+). SE to 12.



Full VGC team is linked in siggy ::cough::, but I ran neutral Cloyster vs Dnite through one of Smogon's calculators and got:

both at 31/252, ignore item, with scale. Cloysters Skill Link seems to be missing, but I set Spear to x5. Dnite is also set at 31 HP with 4EV

It's super effective (4x)!
Damage: 260 - 320 of 324 HP
80% - 98%

Cloyster got STAB on Icicle Spear
Dragonite's Multiscale increased its defense
Icicle Spear hit 5 times.

4 HP is enough for a Revenge Kill. Anyone else feel like seafood for dinner?


(I think the old nature/ev spread was left from waaayyyy back in the day...and when it had Inner Focus and EQ. I'll adjust it later this week sometime)


edit: nm, adjusted it now since I was on :p
 
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